Is free will to blame for tragedy, or is God?

[Kuchen Fairy]

Just humour me and let's assume that the Christian God is the one true God.

I'm not a scholar and I'm not a Christian so my knowledge is fairly limited, but from what I know, God supposedly gave us free will.
So when your loved ones die or when you're in a horrific car accident that leaves you disfigured or when you suffer through a childhood of sexual abuse, is it appropriate to blame this hypothetically existent God? If he gave us free will, why is it his fault when we personally choose to hurt others?

Someone said this to me today:

Quote:

Say there is another person in the room during the rape of some victim. This person is not the rapist, but they did witness the rape and could identify the predator.

Now say this witness did nothing. Said witness is easily larger than the rapist and could easily have stopped the rape, yet they didn't. The witness can identify the rapist, yet they don't step forward to do so. And any attempts to ask the witness for help is met with silence.

"God" is supposedly all present and all powerful. There is a moral obligation to do something to help the victim. One could even argue that by not aiding law enforcement they are breaking laws by aiding the predator.

To which I responded:

Quote:

You're standing over an ant hill, right? There's some red ants and smaller black ants around the hill and a few of them are fighting. Are you going to stop, kneel down and pick through each little ant to make sure they aren't hurt or being attacked?
Chances are you aren't going to. In fact, chances are you're completely indifferent to the actions and fates of those ants. "But those are just dumb ants and we're humans with feelings," right? Why should God care about how you feel? Why should God go out of its way to cater to your whims? Why should it make life as easy as possible? It's God. God may or may not be a humanoid male who sits on a throne in Heaven and looks down on all the world with a watchful eye. He may or may not have a conscience. He may or may not give a damn about you.

You aren't God. You don't know what he/she/it might be thinking, feeling, or caring about. Furthermore, if the Christian God is the true God, then his gift of free will would explain why he chooses not to interfere. He's going to give us free will but when you do something he doesn't like he's going to strike you with lightning and fix your wrongdoings? Wtf.

There was also a bit about arresting God, but it's irrelevant.

But the notion still stands - why should God help us? He gave us free will, thus it's no longer his obligation, is it? Does God have any moral obligations? Should we dare expect him to measure up to the standards he sets for us?

Personally, I think when one has no hardships to overcome or no goals to strive for, life would serve no genuine purpose. If God is real, I'd much prefer he not divinely intervene with any crisis I may be faced with. A parent cannot hold their child's hand forever.
Your $0.02.  

[Fresnel]

Point one: If everything works itself through free will, God must be a VERY bored individual. He really has nothing better to do than meddle with human lives, unless the fabric of reality needs his constant attention so it doesn't unravel, or someshit.

Point two: We are his children. Say you have two kids. If they get in a fight and beat the living s**t out of each other, are you going to break it up, or just watch because it's their free will to do whatever?  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

Point one: If everything works itself through free will, God must be a VERY bored individual. He really has nothing better to do than meddle with human lives, unless the fabric of reality needs his constant attention so it doesn't unravel, or someshit.

Point two: We are his children. Say you have two kids. If they get in a fight and beat the living s**t out of each other, are you going to break it up, or just watch because it's their free will to do whatever?

Yes, the fabric of reality and the planes of time and distance balance on a very thin wire. God is a trapeze artist, see. Santa has more time to listen to the will of the people than does God - he's looking after a plethora of supposed universes, after all.

As for your second point, if that's my plan and if I have an afterlife to promise them then sure. I might even beat them with a lightning bolt or two for added effect.  

[GREEEEEEEEEEEN]

God isn't a human.

End of story.  

[Fresnel]

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.  

[black_wing_angel]

My belief on God is this:

We have free will. We're not puppets. God does, indeed, know the outcome of our actions, but that doesn't mean he is going to go our of his way to stop us from making mistakes. It's not his problem. He gave us free will, so that we can take care of ourselves.

Hell, he even invented the laws of physics, so that he doens't have to say "LET THERE BE RAAAAAAAAAAAIN!" every time it is to rain. Science runs its course. Sorta like cruise control on a car.

God's only interactions with Earth, are when he chooses to BEND the laws of physics, or nature, or whatever, in the form of what WE call "miracles".

A guy gets trapped under a fallen brick wall. It takes 8 days for helpers to rescue him. The whole time, he hasn't moved. The weight of the wall should have killed him nearly instantly, and within 8 days he should have succumbed to starvation, dehydration, and suffocation. Yet, despite all of the reasons why he should be dead, he lives.

THAT would be an act of God.

However, a man finally works up the courage to ask a woman he cares for, out, after months and months of being too shy. That's free will.

Katrina? Nature.

The Ice age? Nature.

I think you get what I'm saying.  

[GREEEEEEEEEEEN]

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

Point taken, but it doesn't mean we come even close to being him.
Scientifically comparing us to him our brain is like an insects compared to a human's being his.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).  

[GREEEEEEEEEEEN]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).

*high fives*  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).

The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).

The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.

Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).

The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.

Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters.

Of course, that does depend on the kind of whale.

Then again, being trapped in a whale's mouth is pretty damn close to being swallowed, and with a touch of artistic license...  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

GREEEEEEEEEEEN

God isn't a human.

End of story.

In his image, etc etc.

And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica?

I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume.

I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals).

The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.

Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters.

Of course, that does depend on the kind of whale.

Then again, being trapped in a whale's mouth is pretty damn close to being swallowed, and with a touch of artistic license...

Exactly.  

[Elweezy]

Hi everyone. I know it's been a while.

I personally think God gave us free will for two reasons.

1. To keep His, for lack of a better word, meddling to a minimum. Without free will God would very nearly control everything we do. I mean, he would literally have to wipe your a**. Let's say God is parent (and He kinda is). He understands that the overall best parenting sytle is the Authoriative style - tells us what to do ad what not to do(the Bible), but doesn't force us, doesn't give us everything we want but does grant the neccessities, allow us room to grow, e.t.c.

2. So that He doesn't have to be blame for everything that goes wrong. A good deal of the time we screw ourselves over because of myopic behavior. Also, he does have to be thanked for everything that goes right. Although the Bible says God loves a cheerful giver, thanking Him for everything gets redundant. He's not going to help us out everytime we get into a bind. That's not what a parent is with. Allow your child to occasionally make an idiotic mistake is a neccessary and painful part of parenting.