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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:50 pm
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Just humour me and let's assume that the Christian God is the one true God.
I'm not a scholar and I'm not a Christian so my knowledge is fairly limited, but from what I know, God supposedly gave us free will. So when your loved ones die or when you're in a horrific car accident that leaves you disfigured or when you suffer through a childhood of sexual abuse, is it appropriate to blame this hypothetically existent God? If he gave us free will, why is it his fault when we personally choose to hurt others?
Someone said this to me today:
Quote: Say there is another person in the room during the rape of some victim. This person is not the rapist, but they did witness the rape and could identify the predator. Now say this witness did nothing. Said witness is easily larger than the rapist and could easily have stopped the rape, yet they didn't. The witness can identify the rapist, yet they don't step forward to do so. And any attempts to ask the witness for help is met with silence. "God" is supposedly all present and all powerful. There is a moral obligation to do something to help the victim. One could even argue that by not aiding law enforcement they are breaking laws by aiding the predator.
To which I responded:
Quote: You're standing over an ant hill, right? There's some red ants and smaller black ants around the hill and a few of them are fighting. Are you going to stop, kneel down and pick through each little ant to make sure they aren't hurt or being attacked? Chances are you aren't going to. In fact, chances are you're completely indifferent to the actions and fates of those ants. "But those are just dumb ants and we're humans with feelings," right? Why should God care about how you feel? Why should God go out of its way to cater to your whims? Why should it make life as easy as possible? It's God. God may or may not be a humanoid male who sits on a throne in Heaven and looks down on all the world with a watchful eye. He may or may not have a conscience. He may or may not give a damn about you. You aren't God. You don't know what he/she/it might be thinking, feeling, or caring about. Furthermore, if the Christian God is the true God, then his gift of free will would explain why he chooses not to interfere. He's going to give us free will but when you do something he doesn't like he's going to strike you with lightning and fix your wrongdoings? Wtf.
There was also a bit about arresting God, but it's irrelevant.
But the notion still stands - why should God help us? He gave us free will, thus it's no longer his obligation, is it? Does God have any moral obligations? Should we dare expect him to measure up to the standards he sets for us?
Personally, I think when one has no hardships to overcome or no goals to strive for, life would serve no genuine purpose. If God is real, I'd much prefer he not divinely intervene with any crisis I may be faced with. A parent cannot hold their child's hand forever. Your $0.02.
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:21 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:02 pm
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The secret source of humor is not joy but sorrow;
Human race come to its actual state due to its own faults and mistakes. We are the ones to blame for our own misery, our choices, and its outcomes. Deities are just lame excuses for not accepting oneself or others faults and mistakes.
There is no proof, logical or empirical, of a god´s existence or absence.
So, we should use our free will to spend our time and energies on doing something useful for ourselves or our society; instead of debating about deities.
But again, we all have free will, so, to those who like blaming god for its absence or indifference, instead of trying to be a better individual, go ahead, because you´re free to do so.
As for me, I take responsibility for my mistakes. Because that´s the choice I made with the freedom of will that I have.
there is no humor in Heaven. Mark Twain
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:43 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:06 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:15 pm
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:31 am
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My belief on God is this:
We have free will. We're not puppets. God does, indeed, know the outcome of our actions, but that doesn't mean he is going to go our of his way to stop us from making mistakes. It's not his problem. He gave us free will, so that we can take care of ourselves.
Hell, he even invented the laws of physics, so that he doens't have to say "LET THERE BE RAAAAAAAAAAAIN!" every time it is to rain. Science runs its course. Sorta like cruise control on a car.
God's only interactions with Earth, are when he chooses to BEND the laws of physics, or nature, or whatever, in the form of what WE call "miracles".
A guy gets trapped under a fallen brick wall. It takes 8 days for helpers to rescue him. The whole time, he hasn't moved. The weight of the wall should have killed him nearly instantly, and within 8 days he should have succumbed to starvation, dehydration, and suffocation. Yet, despite all of the reasons why he should be dead, he lives.
THAT would be an act of God.
However, a man finally works up the courage to ask a woman he cares for, out, after months and months of being too shy. That's free will.
Katrina? Nature.
The Ice age? Nature.
I think you get what I'm saying.
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:59 am
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:49 pm
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:03 pm
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black_wing_angel Fresnel GREEEEEEEEEEEN God isn't a human.
End of story. In his image, etc etc. And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica? I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume. I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals). *high fives*
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:22 pm
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black_wing_angel Fresnel GREEEEEEEEEEEN God isn't a human.
End of story. In his image, etc etc. And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica? I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume. I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals). The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:52 pm
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Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel GREEEEEEEEEEEN God isn't a human.
End of story. In his image, etc etc. And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica? I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume. I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals). The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now.
Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters.
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:42 pm
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black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel GREEEEEEEEEEEN God isn't a human.
End of story. In his image, etc etc. And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica? I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume. I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals). The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now. Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters. Of course, that does depend on the kind of whale.
Then again, being trapped in a whale's mouth is pretty damn close to being swallowed, and with a touch of artistic license...
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:18 pm
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Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel GREEEEEEEEEEEN God isn't a human.
End of story. In his image, etc etc. And why do we assume that "in his image" means an exact replica? I think by that, it means something else. What, I don't know, but not what people assume. I believe God gave us evolutionary properties, to adapt to an ever changing world. Ergo, the way we look today, is not the way we looked then (Neanderthals). The way the bible is written though says that we were created then exactly as we are now. Well, a lot of what is in the bible, is a matter of "perspective". Like Jonah being "swallowed" by a whale. Today, we know that to be physically impossible, and he was more likely just held in its mouth. But back then, people did not know that, so when he was "eaten" by the whale, it was assumed that he was subsequently swallowed by it. And other such perspective matters. Of course, that does depend on the kind of whale. Then again, being trapped in a whale's mouth is pretty damn close to being swallowed, and with a touch of artistic license...
Exactly.
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:52 pm
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