Pictures of dead babies

[XXX Zombie Porn]

and black lungs etc are going to be put on cigarette packets and the age is getting put up to 18 in the UK.

If they put pictures on cigarettes why not put pictures of morbidly obese people on fast food such as McDonalds? Obesity can kill by encouraging heart disease and much as smoking encourages cancer.
Problem is, it's hardly shocking I've seen it all before. So the shock factor kinda fails.

Fact: There is more fat in a McDonalds Ceaser salad than a large donner kebab.

As a smoker sometimes I feel I don't get as much respect as non smokers and treated differently.
Even though even I can smoke inside I usually will insist on going outside if I'm say at a friend's house, relatives etc.

On the smoking ban: I don't mind it at all. I actually have proper conversations with new people outside and can hear what they say as there's no loud music.
With the exception of The Hotel California as they have bands on outside :]

Overall I think there are more important things in the world going on for people to be worrying about someones choice to smoke :]  

[GilAskan]

A large amount of the anti-smoker stigma comes from reports (and in come cases, rumors) about second hand smoke.

No matter how much food from McDonalds you eat around me, I'll never get fat. If you smoke enough cigarettes around me, there's a decent chance I'll get respiratory problems.  

[XXX Zombie Porn]

Yeah but shouldn't smokers have the same rights as non smokers? I don't mean smoking in pubs, I understand that.
But I mean when non smokers complain you smoke around them when the smoker is outside and they can easily move away?  

[zz1000zz]

GilAskan

A large amount of the anti-smoker stigma comes from reports (and in come cases, rumors) about second hand smoke.

No matter how much food from McDonalds you eat around me, I'll never get fat. If you smoke enough cigarettes around me, there's a decent chance I'll get respiratory problems.

Actually, there is no legitimate statistical evidence showing any harm in second hand smoke. The few actual studies done on the subject were either inconclusive, or so obviously butchered bias does not begin to describe it.

The most important study on the topic, the 93 EPA Report (actually released in 92), was highly criticized by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) for both its methods and conclusions. Just a couple facts:

Quote:

Instead of using the 95% confidence interval, the statistical standard that has been used for decades, the EPA doubled their margin of error to achieve their pre-announced results.

The EPA based their numbers on a meta analysis of just 11 studies. They analyzed 31. The EPA excluded two thirds of the data.

And from Joel Osteen, a federal judge who vacated the report:

Joel Osteen

In this case, EPA publicly committed to a conclusion before research had begun; excluded industry by violating the Act's procedural requirements; adjusted established procedure and scientific norms to validate the Agency's public conclusion, and aggressively utilized the Act's authority to disseminate findings to establish a de facto regulatory scheme intended to restrict Plaintiffs, products and to influence public opinion. In conducting the ETS Risk Assessment, disregarded information and made findings on selective information; did not disseminate significant epidemiologic information; deviated from its Risk Assessment Guidelines; failed to disclose important findings and reasoning; and left significant questions without answers. EPA's conduct left substantial holes in the administrative record. While so doing, produced limited evidence, then claimed the weight of the Agency's research evidence demonstrated ETS causes cancer. Gathering all relevant information, researching, and disseminating findings were subordinate to EPA's demonstrating ETS a Group A carcinogen.

There exists no language strong enough to criticize the myth of dangerous second hand smoke.  

[Awesome Akwardness]

XXX Zombie Porn

Yeah but shouldn't smokers have the same rights as non smokers? I don't mean smoking in pubs, I understand that.
But I mean when non smokers complain you smoke around them when the smoker is outside and they can easily move away?

Ofcourse smokers deserve to be treated the same,it's not like people who smoke are ******** lepers or something.
As long as people aren't blowing it right in my face on purpose (which I have had done to me many times) I don't mind.And those people who choose to complain instead of moving like common sense tells them...Let them whine,their just showing how stupid they are.  

[Henneth Annun]

Blackrose Kaire

XXX Zombie Porn

Yeah but shouldn't smokers have the same rights as non smokers? I don't mean smoking in pubs, I understand that.
But I mean when non smokers complain you smoke around them when the smoker is outside and they can easily move away?

Ofcourse smokers deserve to be treated the same,it's not like people who smoke are ******** lepers or something.
As long as people aren't blowing it right in my face on purpose (which I have had done to me many times) I don't mind.And those people who choose to complain instead of moving like common sense tells them...Let them whine,their just showing how stupid they are.

I agree. It's like trying to get certain TV shows banned. If you don't like, you don't have to watch it. If you don't like the guy smoking by the bench your sitting on, move to another bench. Common sense. Just like you said.  

[Isobel Bellamy]

This is a rant to the anti-anti-smoking laws. I also commend and love smokers who smoke outside, and are curteous (thankyou), but, I do get a little fed up of the smoker's rights rants that some people come up with, and I fully surpport the enclosed space ban



I personally have no really qualms about a persons choise to smoke, if you want to do it its fine by my, but I also have a right to be able to breathe in non-smoke filled air.

I'm chornic unstable asthmatic, ergo - smoke provides a whole ton of problems for me. I cannot physically stay in an enclosed space with smoke in it for very long, it eventually triggers an attack and depending on the time of year, can potentially become extremely life threatening. Dying from an asthma attack is not a nice way to go, having survived many attacks like this, I can vouch for that.

I personally do resent having to stop my socialising with friends because I am forced to leave even a cafe with a lone smoker in it, the smoker can leave the enclosed space and come back once they finish their ciggarette, I have to leave permanently until my lungs have recovered - usually a few days after.

Moving away isn't that easy, because there are alot more toxins than just the small whisps of smoke would make you believe, I, like other asthmatics etc, can feel the effects of them far more accutely than other people, and it is invisible and spreads quite far, even crossing the whole room isn't enough if there are three or more smokers in particular.

If its in an open space however, then that's fine, there's lots more air and its easier to find somewhere non-smokey. Enclosed space, and I have to leave or face going to hospital because I wanted to spend time with my friends, or hell, just eat in a resturaunt. I've had to leave shomewhere mid meal because I was starting to attack because a smoker lit up. A single smoker in a designated smoking area, half way across the room. Its not as if I could just "get up and move" I was already far away from her! Its not as if it would have even killed her to wait just ten minutes to finish her meal and smoke outside, it could have killed me to stay in that enclosed space.

How is anyone to know that ther arn't asthmatics, or those with lung disease in the room the are lighting up in? Its not as if we walk around with placards and buzzing neon lights.  

[Isobel Bellamy]

zz1000zz

GilAskan

A large amount of the anti-smoker stigma comes from reports (and in come cases, rumors) about second hand smoke.

No matter how much food from McDonalds you eat around me, I'll never get fat. If you smoke enough cigarettes around me, there's a decent chance I'll get respiratory problems.

Actually, there is no legitimate statistical evidence showing any harm in second hand smoke. The few actual studies done on the subject were either inconclusive, or so obviously butchered bias does not begin to describe it.

I get asthma attacks from second hand smoke, that's one statistic. Seriously, second hand smoke is laden with toxins, I can smell and feel them, its really not pleasent to be around  

[Calantha Josephine]

Well that is interesting, but keeping in mind that i don't think the argument here is that smokers should be allowed to smoke in enclosed areas. I mean, its just courteous to take it outside for a few minutes and finish a cigarette seeing as it is common knowledge that they are a health issue.

I personally do not smoke myself, but it is a persons own decision and they should not been scorned upon because they made a life decision that not everybody agrees on.

And to all those who have asthma, that sucks, and its unfortunate that with the hand you've been dealt your going to have to go that extra mile to avoid smokers; although your friends, if they truly are that, should understand your situation perfectly well and leave an area with you if your in danger of an attack.  

[Spooky Wasabi Princess]

Us Aussies already have those pictures on our smokes.
We have the brain with tumor, creepy eyeball, baby with breathing tubes, yellow fingers and gangrenous foot. There's also a surgeon-type person holding a jar of tar.
The brain, foot and tar are all stills from TV ads.

The ads are pretty gross, but I still smoke. Although the images have, on more than one occasion, made me put off smoking for an hour or so. Good on them.

Got Amputation?




Also, zz1000zz, you have to be kidding about that second hand smoke stuff. No legitimate statistics? Whatever man.  

[Calantha Josephine]

Oh those pics look yummy. Somehow i dont think they are going to be used in the US though. And if they are.. then well /shrug, whatever you can always just ignore them  

[zz1000zz]

I know this is not the place for debating the dangers of second-hand smoke. If anyone disagrees with me, i would be glad to discuss it in private messages. As it happens, this topic is one on which i have done a great deal of research, and it means a great deal to me. I can easily show the majority of claims made about second-hand smoke are horribly incorrect. Many of them can be done with just a little common sense.

(A number i hear tossed around lately is that in the United States, each pack of cigarettes smoked costs society $40. People say this seriously, despite it making no sense. If you multiply that cost by the number of packs smoked in the United States, you come up with over one trillion dollars. The GNP of the United States is a little over 11 trillion dollars, which means smoking would have to cost 10% of the country's GNP. That is absurd. Yet it is stated as "fact.")

In any event, i find smoking to be a disgusting habit. I find it distasteful and annoying. However, i do not think smoking should be banned in most places. I can tolerate banning, by law, smoking in public places, but that is as far as i can accept it. I find the idea of banning smoking in restaurants and bars to be absurd. Those are private businesses, and they should be allowed to control their own environment. People going into a restaurant or bar that has smoke enter knowing what risks they may be taking. If they are willing to take those risks, what is the problem?

Of course, there are people who do not want to be around smoke, for one reason or another. Those people are more than welcome not to go to restaurants and bars that allow smoking. People have no right as individuals to make demands upon public businesses based upon personal desires.

As for people with respiratory conditions which make cigarette smoke dangerous... Tough. Just as a person with a severe allergy to peanuts has no right to demand peanut free environments in all restaurants, neither do you have the right to demand smoke free environments.

Of course, my stance hinges on second-hand smoke not being as dangerous as is commonly accepted. If you refuse to agree with that, then nothing i say matters. I have no doubt i am correct, but i know most people will refuse to accept it.

P.S. In light of one argument i hear often, no i do not know what is like to have severe respiratory problems. I do not have that personal experience, but my lack of such experience does not impact the merit of my stance.  

[Spooky Wasabi Princess]

Calantha Josephine

Oh those pics look yummy. Somehow i dont think they are going to be used in the US though. And if they are.. then well /shrug, whatever you can always just ignore them

You're not meant to ignore them blaugh  

[Awesome Akwardness]

spooky_sez

Calantha Josephine

Oh those pics look yummy. Somehow i dont think they are going to be used in the US though. And if they are.. then well /shrug, whatever you can always just ignore them

You're not meant to ignore them blaugh

I actually laughed at the foot and "Got amputation"thing. sweatdrop  

[XXX Zombie Porn]

That picture hasn't even made me think about stopping smoking.
In the slightest, this is what I mean by they won't work.