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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:10 pm
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:35 pm
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:46 pm
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:42 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:23 am
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:52 am
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:28 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:14 pm
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Dragoness Arleeana Nahrzak It's a death wish... some people have a hyper sensitivity... subliminal or conscious... inate or active... and a witch is a Dark and sinister typography of magic... A wiccan is a Mage... and a Witch is a Novice or Apprentice of a bad sorceress... Witches cannot ever acquire the experience or ability that might include nobility... and Wiccan is a very noble (elfen) post script to Man's work in magic... Mage is a Healer or a Death Dealer... Witch is a lack of experience and or a moral or ethical Caring. None of that made any sense. Wiccans are not called mages. They are called witches, as that is what Gerald Gardner said they were. A witch is NOT an apprentice of a bad sorcerer or sorceress, it's anyone who practices witchcraft. The rest of your post doesn't make enough sense to even respond to.
Okay, so I am not the only one who thought that made no sense.
Anyway...
I did not answer the poll because Wiccan and Witch are not mutually exclusive. The only author I know who consistantly asserts that all Wiccans are Witches and all Witches are Wiccans is Silver Ravenwolf... and I'm not even going to get started there.
Witchcraft and Wicca are two different things. Many Wiccans do not follow witchcraft. Wicca is a religion, it is a belief system. Witchraft is just that, a craft. Wiccan spell work is closer to prayer based, calling on the Lord & Lady, the deities. Witchcraft works more with herbs, candles, and other objects of energy, more personal will and less call to higher powers.
Many Witches are Wiccans and many Wiccans are Witches... but they are two separate things. |
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:52 pm
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uninsured_speech Dragoness Arleeana Nahrzak It's a death wish... some people have a hyper sensitivity... subliminal or conscious... inate or active... and a witch is a Dark and sinister typography of magic... A wiccan is a Mage... and a Witch is a Novice or Apprentice of a bad sorceress... Witches cannot ever acquire the experience or ability that might include nobility... and Wiccan is a very noble (elfen) post script to Man's work in magic... Mage is a Healer or a Death Dealer... Witch is a lack of experience and or a moral or ethical Caring. None of that made any sense. Wiccans are not called mages. They are called witches, as that is what Gerald Gardner said they were. A witch is NOT an apprentice of a bad sorcerer or sorceress, it's anyone who practices witchcraft. The rest of your post doesn't make enough sense to even respond to. Okay, so I am not the only one who thought that made no sense. Anyway... I did not answer the poll because Wiccan and Witch are not mutually exclusive. The only author I know who consistantly asserts that all Wiccans are Witches and all Witches are Wiccans is Silver Ravenwolf... and I'm not even going to get started there. Witchcraft and Wicca are two different things. Many Wiccans do not follow witchcraft. Wicca is a religion, it is a belief system. Witchraft is just that, a craft. Wiccan spell work is closer to prayer based, calling on the Lord & Lady, the deities. Witchcraft works more with herbs, candles, and other objects of energy, more personal will and less call to higher powers. Many Witches are Wiccans and many Wiccans are Witches... but they are two separate things.
Yeah...I didn't get anything of what he said.
Actually, if you're wiccan you ARE a witch. To actually be TRULEY considered Wiccan, you have to have had an initiation performed by a lineaged witch. If you've not had that done, then you're what is considered a Wiccan dedicant. (I still say you're wiccan, but not technically if we follow the "rules") this is a form of witchcraft, thus making you a witch. There are many people who claim to be wiccan, but do not practice witchcraft (and therefor are not witches) but instead give silent worship to the gods (much like christians do to god). Now, that means that you would be ecclectic, but still wiccan without being a witch. Though if we were to follow the rules set down by Gardner you wouldn't technically even be a Wiccan, you'd just be a pagan.
As a side note, if anyone here tries to tell me that there are no rules to Wicca and that Gardner never set any down, then you SERIOUSLY need to read up on your history. Wicca isn't as willy-nilly do-what-you-want as most people think. Trust me, there are rules to the religion, like every other religion out there. |
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:37 pm
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Dragoness Arleeana Yeah...I didn't get anything of what he said. Actually, if you're wiccan you ARE a witch. To actually be TRULEY considered Wiccan, you have to have had an initiation performed by a lineaged witch. If you've not had that done, then you're what is considered a Wiccan dedicant. (I still say you're wiccan, but not technically if we follow the "rules") this is a form of witchcraft, thus making you a witch. There are many people who claim to be wiccan, but do not practice witchcraft (and therefor are not witches) but instead give silent worship to the gods (much like christians do to god). Now, that means that you would be ecclectic, but still wiccan without being a witch. Though if we were to follow the rules set down by Gardner you wouldn't technically even be a Wiccan, you'd just be a pagan. As a side note, if anyone here tries to tell me that there are no rules to Wicca and that Gardner never set any down, then you SERIOUSLY need to read up on your history. Wicca isn't as willy-nilly do-what-you-want as most people think. Trust me, there are rules to the religion, like every other religion out there.
It seems we are equally active tonight.
Aside from the question of Wiccan vs. Pagan and such... I am not sure that I consider initiation witchcraft. Symbolic, certainly. If we are going to stick to a strict Gardnerian interpretation, you MUST incorporate kabalistic ceremonial magic into your worship to be Wiccan... thus yes, I suppose you would have to be a witch if you were a Wiccan. Despite my Gardnerian roots, I do not find Gardner to be the best source. Much of what he made up was just that... made up to suite his own needs (and fetishes). Many of the rules are arbitrary, contradictory and designed by committee. Gardner made up his 30 (though he claimed otherwise at the time) and the additional 130 came from Alex Sanders and the Alexandrian tradition.
I am getting off point. Do you have to be a witch to be a Wiccan. I guess it depends on your definition of magic... and please, I don't want to relive that question over here. While I tend to say that you do not have to be a witch to be Wiccan and you don't have to be Wiccan to be a witch, I can see the argument. There is an inherent amount of witchcraft in Wicca... even putting Gardner aside. Yea. I concede the point. |
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:34 pm
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Yes, I totally agree with you, on every point, even about Gardner. (sometimes I wonder if he wasn't smoking something on the side)
Really, it's impossible to be Wiccan without practicing witchcraft, as that is what makes up the whole of the religion. Of course initiation is a completely symbolic ritual, but it's still a ritual none-the-less. Most Sabbat rituals are symbolic, but it's still considered witchcraft.
It's kind of a frusterating topic to discuss because most Wiccans do believe that the ritual itself is not what's important, but the intent. But does that mean that we need not perform ritual at all? Some believe that Christian-style praying is enough. Everyone is always going to have a different view on whether or not ritual is actually NEEDED. Thus, we can never REALLY say that all wiccans are witches. (though we can say that all TRUE Wiccans are witches)
On another point. I think the OP's friend may not neccisarily be OFFENDED by being called a witch, but more like she's wary of it. The term witch has always had a bad reputation, but the word Wiccan is fairly new and untarnished. I've come acrossed people who freak when you tell them you're a witch but then later you say that you are a Wiccan, and they seem far more willing to listen. I think being wary of the term is understandabe because of this but actually being offended is just stupid.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:02 pm
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:29 pm
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:52 am
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