Advanced Witches?

[MidnightLetter]

I was asked this question earlier and thought I would share my answer, as well as get your thoughts/input on the subject.

How do you define being an advanced witch?

Primarily it is someone who has been studying for at least several years and are comfortable in their practice of witchcraft. Usually they have reached a point where they have more or less mastered the basics and feel that they are ready to move on to a deeper level of practice. In spell work it means that you have an in depth knowledge of how magic works and are comfortable with the responsibility of working with stronger magics (or more potent spells). From a religious standpoint (if you are Wiccan/pagan) then you have a strong connection to your dieties and have an established practice that you follow on a regular basis.

In theory if you follow the year and a day rule (and with proper training) a person could be ready for advanced work in as little as 3 years. However my personal thoughts on that is that is way too soon. These things take time - personally I have been a practicing witch for over 8 years and while there are some things that I would consider myself advanced in, there are others that I definitely am still just beginning to learn.

Witchcraft is not something to rush - it is a life long practice and you will be constantly learning new things. The reason that people/books will label things "advanced" practice is because there are basics that should be well known to you before you move on to the material that they are presenting to you. Otherwise you would more than likely, at best... end up frustrated and confused as to what they were talking about, or at worse trying to do things that you aren't ready for and possibly harming yourself or others.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I don't think "advanced witchcraft" really exists. I don't believe any one spell is really all that more powerful than anything else. Nor do I link religion to witchcraft... I'm a Pagan and a witch, but my Pagan religion has little to do with my proficiency as a witch. So I don't think deity or connection to deity is particularly relevant.

I mean, you could be a dab hand at tarot but that doesn't make you an advanced witch, all it makes you is a dab hand at tarot. (Which doesn't decrease its value.) You could be an advanced with your herbs and make any number of helpful concoctions, but you might not have focused much on energy work. People have different specialities. You can't be advanced at everything; a jack of all trades is a master of none.

If I was defining advanced witchcraft, I'd say it's the witchcraft you get after you've been practising for 50 years and you no longer call it witchcraft, it's just that thing you do. I don't think advanced witchcraft means "no longer beginning witchcraft".  

[JewelLynn24]

Something that you are born as smile  

[Korealia]

i don't know. confused

beginners? i imagine they could tell you how to call the quarters, maybe how to draw the pentacles as presented in the written format of BTW. they could name elemental correspondances and have picked a specific pantheon. 4laugh

i imagine that 'intermediate' individuals were more schooled. they'd know things like Dettmer vs. Landon. they'd know what The Magickal Childe was. or maybe the name of the organization that Otter G'Zell started. ninja

and advanced? hmm. they'd know things like wraithforms, the differences between an open nemeton and a closed circle. probably know why Miriam Simos was important to the wiccan movement and things like the definition of P.I.E.* they'd probably understand Robert Graves or Terrence McKenna, even if they didn't agree with the latter's approach. probably know the correlations of Jungian theories in correspondance to the Celtic World Tree. twisted

er.

i dunno. most 'beginners' have no roots. most 'intermediate' are stuck where they can't find anything past 'wicca 101' books. and some of the anthropological and linguistical debates on BTW newsgroups make my head spin, so i'd definately call it 'advanced'.

i definately believe there are levels of learning. but i don't think they're really all that easy to define. *shrug* rolleyes  

[hyacinth hunter]

I have been practicing for a decade and I'd still call myself intermediate at best. I'm comfortable enough to know what I know how to do and to try to learn what I do not. That being said, I don't know profess to know everything or be able to do everything that I am capable of at an "advanced" level.  

[Arc En Licorne]

i have been studying for like 7 or 8 years and i still consider myself somewhat of an intermediate almost advanced witch coz I'm just not comfortable to call myself completely advanced  

[Sam Oaken Willow 17]

I've been practicing for 4 or 5 years and I consider myself intermediate. It's so hard to find books for my level, I am about to go crazy!!! I think I've resolved to going outward, though, instead of upward. Or more outward instead of up...which means expanding my knowledge on what I'm interested in--learning a little about a lot of things, and then doing some daily devotions to connect myself with the earth.  

[Morgandria]

There is no universal scale or ranking system for magic. It's difficult to put quantitative definitions on something that in and of itself is qualitative. I don't think you can measure advancement in years, honestly. I've been practicing magic for almost 2 decades now, and a variety of pagan paths for almost the same amount of time. This does not automatically make me "advanced".

People are not binary. We are not either 'on' or 'off'. It is possible to be many things, simultaneously. In many ways, I am a beginner and an expert: Sometimes I am the Magician, sometimes the High Priestess - other times I am still the Fool.

It may well be someone has an experience or a set of experiences early on that moves them well past a novice's level in a short amount of time. It may also be that someone who has practiced for years may be so comfortable with the entry-level magic they perform that they never choose to move forward from that point. Time is not always a factor in experience.

Adding to this is the idea that we can learn everything from a book. Many of the post important lessons for magic are found in simply experiencing life, in trying new things, in observing life in action - and in learning from our mistakes.

People get stuck at "intermediate", I think, because they are unwilling to be "unsafe" - something entry-level texts and teachings on magic constantly emphasize. While I agree that one needs to practice and get a solid foundation of skills to begin working magic on, I also disagree, in that the constant repetition of "OMG magic is teh dangar" has added an unnescessary level of fear to the proceedings. One should respect the forces they work with - but fearing it will only make the learning curve sharper.  

[oOGarrettOo]

I don't think there will ever be an "advanced" when it comes to witchcraft. In order for something like that to even be possible, then everything that affects witchcraft (outside sources, natural bits, yada, yada) would have to remain the same so that the "advanced" witch would have a forever thorough knowledge of how it works and/or how to make it work. Well, the very nature of...nature, makes this pretty much impossible. Everything is always changing, especially now. It's pretty hard to be advanced at something that isn't constant. There would always be something new to learn. I think "experienced" is a better term. Even then, it's hard to define experience.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Sam Oaken Willow 17

I've been practicing for 4 or 5 years and I consider myself intermediate. It's so hard to find books for my level, I am about to go crazy!!!

There are barely any books for Beginners witchcraft, if we're honest. Because it goes off on stuff about "sabbats" and "gods" and never actually tells you anything about witchcraft. Pet peeve. wink  

[oOGarrettOo]

Sanguina Cruenta

Sam Oaken Willow 17

I've been practicing for 4 or 5 years and I consider myself intermediate. It's so hard to find books for my level, I am about to go crazy!!!

There are barely any books for Beginners witchcraft, if we're honest. Because it goes off on stuff about "sabbats" and "gods" and never actually tells you anything about witchcraft. Pet peeve. wink

Agreed. I've never actually found anything useful when it comes to books and witchcraft. Even the "spell books" are useless since they're just a bunch of fluff and rarely anything useful.  

[Morgandria]

oOGarrettOo

Sanguina Cruenta

Sam Oaken Willow 17

I've been practicing for 4 or 5 years and I consider myself intermediate. It's so hard to find books for my level, I am about to go crazy!!!

There are barely any books for Beginners witchcraft, if we're honest. Because it goes off on stuff about "sabbats" and "gods" and never actually tells you anything about witchcraft. Pet peeve. wink

Agreed. I've never actually found anything useful when it comes to books and witchcraft. Even the "spell books" are useless since they're just a bunch of fluff and rarely anything useful.

Adding to that are the authors who use the term "witch" or "witchcraft", when they really mean 'neo-pagan' or 'neo-pagan religion'...Laurie Cabot comes to mind. Her books are nominally about witchcraft, but when you get into them they're all holidays and deities and rituals, as Sanguina said.

Cabot really gets my goat because she has actually said (on film, no less) that 'Wicca' is a colloquial term used by people who are AFRAID to use the term Witchcraft.

I really have no use for people who purposely muddy the waters.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Cabot is the woman who said black robes are "traditional Wiccan garb", isn't she?

Let's hang her.  

[Freyis]

I think it's pretty hard to determine what level your at especially when your eclectic I suppose it might be easier if you were an initiated Wiccan since there are guidlines I'd assume.

Experience would be a better way of putting it I think but still truly measuring it is hard since most people seem to be putting "I studied for X number of years". Which doesn't really mean the person learned all that much considering the person could have only studied books or sources that are unreliable or in reality read a book every once in awhile and didn't truly try to grasp what it meant or challenge the concepts, instead taking it at face value and just accepting that it was right.

A proficiency is definitely a must obviously but I'm not entirely sure how one would go about proving it other than being initiated again but those people are oathbound so... although I guess if you don't follow the Wiccan paths there would be ways to prove your proficiency.

Specializing in a few areas seems more plausible to me and that would take years of buckling down and really studying and finding others whom are already proficient to learn from.

That is just my opinion.

As for me I've been studying for 5-6 years now and I would consider myself a beggining to intermediate level. I've just now had my own time to really study what I want to so I'm focusing on specific areas now rather than just the basics.  

[Lucas Moonrose]

Beginning witch: Someone who needs their books for reference as well as researching what they're aiming for as far as path goes. Usually find Misleading information and interpret it incorrectly.

Intermediate witch: Knows what is misleading and what isn't. Turns to books once in a while for Reference when doing a more difficult spell. They're also Pretty solid on a path, though Paths can always change.

Advanced Witch: Those who have little to no trouble with their practice, who can Pull a spell out of their head when they need it. Are fluid in their Spell work, and know what they're doing to the T... Almost.

That is of course... my view on this whole thing xDD

I'd say I'm in the middle of Beginner and Intermediate. I love looking into other books about Witchcraft and picking it apart. Lamia and I do this on occasion over the phone tearing books apart page by page seeing what the base is instead of all the Propaganda and other stuff. We like to see what matches what. xDD

Ahem, Could we get some tea?
No? Please?
What about... What about vodka?
Um... Brandy? Alright, brandy it is, thank you!