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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:02 pm
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:31 pm
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:15 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:01 am
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MidnightLetter Vice Captain
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:22 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:50 pm
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:29 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:50 pm
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:06 pm
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Maxwell_Pink Ultraviolett1127 -nod- I can definitely see where it might be considered Traditional Wicca, but then I see more for it not being Traditional Wicca. It does not honor the Lord and Lady of the Isles, it does not hand down the mysteries of Traditional Wicca, and there isn't a strong emphasis on lineage. What kind of negative connotations were tied to the name Frigg? I haven't come across the mention of any in what I've read. Solely from a BTW point of view I would agree, however I prefer to use this page (written by a Lycian Wiccan) as a gauge. By that description both coven initiated and those initiated by the Deities, themselves, could qualify. "Frigg" was often used in place of the "F-Bomb" back in the day. Sadly its use as such is making a comeback. sad I would think initiation by the deities would be a difficult thing to work with. What would qualify as an initiation via the deities? How would you know for sure that the deities have initiated you and it just isn't Loki having some fun with you?
Couldn't they have used "Frigga"? Or Frija even. People say "goddammit" or even "god-f*****g-damnit", but that hasn't deterred anyone from honoring their god(s) wink
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:55 pm
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:59 pm
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:50 pm
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too2sweet Quote: What would qualify as an initiation via the deities? In general, any self-initiation type ritual would technically qualify. The thought being that if you have invoked them then they are present and will initiate you into their "mysteries". Quote: Initiation: For us initiation comes from Spirit - god and goddess or whatever face you put on it. In old Gardnerian Laws this was stated as 'there is only one true initiator'; meaning deity working through the self. We therefore see initiation as being 'a passage right of entry' into the coven or at a later stage as 'a passage right of acceptance, ephiphany or realisation' that a truly spiritual initiation has taken place.
Self-Initiation: We do not believe there truly is such a thing as 'self-initiation', as we believe initiation comes from spirit (see above). Therefore, if you perform an initiation by yourself and deity comes through how can it be 'self initiation' when it is deity that initiates you! Saying this we do not belive you can 'self-initiate' into traditions such as Gardnerian or Alexandrian as they require lineage (apostolic succession). You must abide by the rules of those traditions.source Hmm...isn't it kind of...presumptuous...to assume that just because you've invoked the deities, they'll initiate you in? Even if you have a good rapport with them...I imagine they'd be picky about who they let in on their mysteries. It's one thing to have followers who honor you, it's another to have a follower who knows all of your dirty laundry.
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:16 pm
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Ultraviolett1127 Couldn't they have used "Frigga"? Or Frija even. People say "goddammit" or even "god-f*****g-damnit", but that hasn't deterred anyone from honoring their god(s) wink
Back then there was still some blushing involved when one cursed. smile Nowadays it's less of an issue.
As for the initiation issue (which I somehow deleted from your quote and now GAIA is being a BPITA), based on what I've been told by some long practicing Pagans, UPG is being accepted more and more these days.
Sanguina-chan The term "Traditional Wicca" applies ONLY to Gardnerians and Alexandrians. This is because it's a compromise, the other side of "Neo-Wicca". Yes, Seax-Wica is a tradition, but it's a tradition of Neo-Wicca. It is not Traditional Wicca. It honours different deities. It does things in different ways. It is not Trad Wicca. Frankly one should be happy enough with that. There are more than enough people who are adamant that it is not Wicca at all.
I never said I wasn't happy with the "Neo--Wiccan" label (though I will admit that I'm not exactly happy I now have to share it with a bunch of fluffy bunnies), I merely said that SOME do consider it to be traditional. Heck I've even had a BTW tell me that they consider Seax to be a BTW trad.
Sanguina-chan Neo-Wicca is not an initiatory religion. Groups can involve a form of initiation, but the religion itself is open. If there is no group, then there is no initiation. Why an initiation would be necessary is bizarre to me.
I know of a fair number of witches who have been practicing 20+ years and who are neither Gardnerians nor Alexandrians, nor do they have lineage. Yet they consider themselves Wiccan (not Neo-Wiccan) because their trad is initiatory and they comply with all the other "requirements".
It's funny, but I've noticed that the longer one has been practicing the broader their definition of "Wicca" becomes.
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:05 am
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Maxwell_Pink Sanguina-chan The term "Traditional Wicca" applies ONLY to Gardnerians and Alexandrians. This is because it's a compromise, the other side of "Neo-Wicca". Yes, Seax-Wica is a tradition, but it's a tradition of Neo-Wicca. It is not Traditional Wicca. It honours different deities. It does things in different ways. It is not Trad Wicca. Frankly one should be happy enough with that. There are more than enough people who are adamant that it is not Wicca at all. I never said I wasn't happy with the "Neo--Wiccan" label (though I will admit that I'm not exactly happy I now have to share it with a bunch of fluffy bunnies), I merely said that SOME do consider it to be traditional. Heck I've even had a BTW tell me that they consider Seax to be a BTW trad.
I was talking to people in general, not just to you wink Fluffy bunnies often aren't Neo-Wiccan. *shrug* I find it very bizarre that a BTW would consider Seax-Wica to be Trad Wicca, considering that they worship different deities. There are a few Trads who really dislike Buckland, anyway. I try to distance myself from that whole issue.
Quote: Sanguina-chan Neo-Wicca is not an initiatory religion. Groups can involve a form of initiation, but the religion itself is open. If there is no group, then there is no initiation. Why an initiation would be necessary is bizarre to me. I know of a fair number of witches who have been practicing 20+ years and who are neither Gardnerians nor Alexandrians, nor do they have lineage. Yet they consider themselves Wiccan (not Neo-Wiccan) because their trad is initiatory and they comply with all the other "requirements". It's funny, but I've noticed that the longer one has been practicing the broader their definition of "Wicca" becomes.
That's the thing, though, your coven and tradition might be initiatory, but because it is not lineaged and it has no access to the Mysteries and rituals of Wicca proper, it isn't Wicca. Because Wicca is orthopraxic, and experiential, and the rituals are oath-bound. So they may consider themselves Wiccan and not Neo-Wiccan, but their understanding of the terms must be flawed, because they would not be correct.
I'm more inclined to think that the longer one has been calling their practice Wicca, the less likely one is to give up the term. That may be why their definitions are wider.
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:23 pm
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