Haram and Halal: Redefined to fit a Modern Society

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

This thread was made possible through the efforts of a Muslim and a non-Muslim in a fierce argument. Ratri suggested that I post this because she felt I would give a better explanation and it would sound better coming from a Muslim than a non-Muslim.

I have found some of the concepts of what is haram and what is halal to be vague and confusing. Some, while given with good intentions, are based off of FALSE PREDICAMENTS and should be redefined.

disclaimer: THIS IS BY NO MEANS TO TRY AND CONVINCE ANYONE TO INDULGE INTO "HARAM" ACTIVITIES.

THE POINT IS TO PUT A FRESH LOOK ON WHAT IS HARAM AND WHAT IS HALAL

AND REALIZE THAT THE DIFFERENCES IN INTERPRETATION OF THE QU'RAN CAN CHANGE THE OUTLOOK ON ISLAM AND HOW WE PRACTICE IT.

We shall look at the following most common concerns about haram and halal:

1. Pork vs. Chicken

2. Alcoholic consumption

The list will continue as more issues are brought up.  

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

PORK VERSES CHICKEN: MYTHS AND FACTS ABOUT THE CREATURES YOU EAT AND ARE FORBIDDEN TO EAT

Let's start with what Allah has commanded us:

English version of Qu'ran

"He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

source: Pork, the other white meat

Since, the most common myth as to why we don't eat pigs is because they are dirty animals, because...they eat garbage and all that, Ratri decided to point out some common facts about pigs that are overlooked by us non-eating pork folk.

Pig Facts

Pig are omnivores; they eat meat and plants

Pigs cannot sweat. They wallow in mud to keep cool, thus earning the stereotype for being dirty.

They DO NOT EAT THEIR OWN CRAP. Pigs will have a toilet that is away from their food source.

Pigs will eat what is given to them. You give them garbage, they will eat organic bits of that garbage. A usual diet of a pig includes: grains such as corn, wheat, oats or barley. Farm pigs are also fed greens and dried food made from meat, and some vitamins and minerals.
source: Pig Info for Dummies

Chicken Facts

Chickens are omnivores: they eat both plants and meat

Chickens are considered to be feathered garbage dumpsters; they eat almost anything. This link will take you to a site where people talk about what their farm-raised chickens have eaten

Chickens cannot bathe in water, they use the dirt to clean off oils from their feathers

The eggs that you eat are part of the chicken reproductive system. If you are eating an unfertilized egg; you're basically eating the chicken's period. Same process human females go through during the menstruation cycle.
If you eat a fertilized egg, you are eating a fetus, an unborn baby chicken.

The above facts are based upon farm-raised animals.

Click on the pictures below to see slaughterhouse conditions for the pig and the chicken.
and

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, EITHER WAY, IT'S NOT SMART TO BASE ISLAMIC DIETARY HABITS BASED UPON AN ANIMAL'S EATING HABITS WHEN JUST EXAMINING EATING CHICKEN VERSES EATING PORK.


My suggestion is to not eat pork for the following reasons:

-the pig cardiovascular system and DNA is very similar to humans. Cannibalism is not tolerated in Islam, and since pigs are so much like humans that it would be wrong to eat pork and pork products

-Pigs have historically been a symbol of the gluttonous wealth. it symbolizes greed and gluttony, both which is not supported by Muslims and something that Allah does not want us to do. In a spiritual sense, you are what you eat. You eat something that is known for gluttony, you too will fall for greed and be like the pig, snuffling around for greater wealth to feast upon.  

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

ALCOHOL: WHAT IS FORBIDDEN AND WHAT ISN'T

First, I will define alcohol. Then we will have the qu'ran version and compare the two, and see how it fits in modern life.

Dictionary.com

al·co·hol [al-kuh-hawl, -hol]
–noun
1. Also called ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, ethanol, fermentation alcohol. a colorless, limpid, volatile, flammable, water-miscible liquid, C2H5OH, having an etherlike odor and pungent, burning taste, the intoxicating principle of fermented liquors, produced by yeast fermentation of certain carbohydrates, as grains, molasses, starch, or sugar, or obtained synthetically by hydration of ethylene or as a by-product of certain hydrocarbon syntheses: used chiefly as a solvent in the extraction of specific substances, in beverages, medicines, organic synthesis, lotions, tonics, colognes, rubbing compounds, as an automobile radiator antifreeze, and as a rocket fuel

Now look at the Qu'ran verses in English

Qu'ran

''O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, dedication of stones, and divination by arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork: eschew such abominations that you may prosper."

Satan's plan is but to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer:will you not then abstain?''

They ask you (O Muhammad (saw) ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh (swt) makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought.

CONCLUSION: WINE, BEER, VODKA, WHISKEY, TEQUILA, OR BEVERAGES CONTAINING ALCOHOL THAT IS INTOXICATING TO THE MIND AND BODY ARE HARAM.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE ALCOHOLS THAT WE CAN CONSUME BECAUSE THEY DO NOT INTOXICATE THE MIND AS LIQUOR DOES.


Alcohol is produced from sugars by natural fermentation processes and it is therefore a natural product. There are many different types of alcohols that exist, including alcohol that your own body creates. The type that is commonly used in food that is alcohol-based is called glycerol. Gycerol is also known as glycerin or glycerine. It is a colorless, odorless, viscous liquid that is widely used in pharmaceutical formulations. Glycerol is a sugar alcohol, and is sweet-tasting and of low toxicity. It is used as an artificial sweetener and does NOT promote tooth decay. This is an example of what it looks like before it is added to foods and other stuff:

It is something so common that it is not only used in foods, but our everyday life

Alcohol-based products also enter our food in another way and should not be of any concern to those of us who actually abstain from alcohol consumption. Vanilla, for instance, contains alcohol. Alcohol has a lower evaporation and boiling point than water does. So, say you flavor a cake with vanilla and put it into the oven...the alcohol will evaporate and the essence of the flavor will remain. A more liberal interpretation would allow people to COOK with WINE and be fine, because the alcohol that makes a wine not grape juice is evaporated (intoxicants are gone) and only the FLAVOR OF WINE REMAINS.

UP FOR DEBATE: WHEN YOU USE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES IN COOKING, ALL THE TOXINS ARE GONE. THEY EVAPORATE AND ALL YOU HAVE IS FLAVOR, NOTHING ELSE. SHOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED HARAAM OR HALAL? GIVE A GOOD EXPLANATION WHY.



sources:Cooking with Alcohol
Glycerol Info from Wiki
some uses of glycerol
Alcohol in medicines  

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

-reserved for other discussion points-

 

[Zaakii]

Jibril is it halah to eat other humans? Answer this!

Cause i know that pork is haram! Don't you think that? Yes ore no?


Even count thinks your christian... And i think Ratri is better muslim than you if i should be serious.  

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

i have finished. Zaaki, quit insulting me and actually read what I post. I used colors and big fonts so it could be easy to read. It took awhile to post it all up, ok?  

[Thou Exalted]

Pretty good so far Jibrel, I agree with everything so far and even though I probably still won't do any of those (with the exception of the whole alcohol in food for flavoring and what not) things which are considered haram I agree with how you put them forward.  

[Geek Zombie]

i would heads off ^^ thanks for the topic!!


but i got one question!!


like there is this "Apple sidra" that i usually drink in my college!!


i found out that it contains Alcohol !! but on it is written "NON ALCOHOLIC"


should i drink it or not?


and there is other product of Orange Juice!! and does it contain alcohol?


i mean do they use alcohol in Juices?  

[Geek Zombie]

Ratri_Cat

tassan

i would heads off ^^ thanks for the topic!!


but i got one question!!


like there is this "Apple sidra" that i usually drink in my college!!


i found out that it contains Alcohol !! but on it is written "NON ALCOHOLIC"


should i drink it or not?


and there is other product of Orange Juice!! and does it contain alcohol?


i mean do they use alcohol in Juices?

ÉN verekszik részére Isten , országom és családom

does it look like this?
tassan, tell us what type of alcohol it is?
Look at the ingredients list and find out. Same with your orange juice product. There are other flavoring-based alcohols that are used in food and drink products that are non alcoholic [or should i say non-intoxicating?]

...kit ugye verekszik részére?

uh!!

i said i read NON ALCOHOLIC on it!! that means i also read every thing on it!!

and there were no ingredients over it!!

and the product is not international so it won't be present in other countries then pakistan!!

but i will try to figure out in it!!


and how i can know if the Alcohol is the one used for flavor?



is it only Glycerol or probably some thing as well ??  

[Geek Zombie]

Ratri_Cat

ÉN verekszik részére Isten , országom és családom

i tried looking it up, you do realize that it is made by a Tawainese company and also exists in Mexico, right? xd

...kit ugye verekszik részére?

i will look it up next time i drink it!!


and what about red grape juice?  

[The Dead Terrorist Achmed]

tassan

Ratri_Cat

ÉN verekszik részére Isten , országom és családom

i tried looking it up, you do realize that it is made by a Tawainese company and also exists in Mexico, right? xd

...kit ugye verekszik részére?

i will look it up next time i drink it!!


and what about red grape juice?

Red grape juice *giggles*
tassan, as i've stated before, anything that contains intoxicants is considered haram. grape juice is nothing but sugar, grape flavoring juice and grape juice. It's not considered haram because your mind functions don't change. though I've heard if you drink enough it gives you diarrhea. xd you're safe with red grape juice unless it fermented. then it's haram because fermented red grape juice is one type of wine.
gonk Ratri sent me a PM about intoxicants in drugs, must put up later....  

[Geek Zombie]

The Dead Terrorist Achmed

tassan

Ratri_Cat

ÉN verekszik részére Isten , országom és családom

i tried looking it up, you do realize that it is made by a Tawainese company and also exists in Mexico, right? xd

...kit ugye verekszik részére?

i will look it up next time i drink it!!


and what about red grape juice?

Red grape juice *giggles*
tassan, as i've stated before, anything that contains intoxicants is considered haram. grape juice is nothing but sugar, grape flavoring juice and grape juice. It's not considered haram because your mind functions don't change. though I've heard if you drink enough it gives you diarrhea. xd you're safe with red grape juice unless it fermented. then it's haram because fermented red grape juice is one type of wine.
gonk Ratri sent me a PM about intoxicants in drugs, must put up later....

okay i got you ^^

but i need to see the ingredients!!


and what about those on which there is no tag like "halal" ?