Human cloning.

[Kuchen Fairy]

What do you think?

Here's a little background. Clones serve one true purpose (or two, if you count "lol cool look what we did" as a purpose) - to provide for others, namely science in general. But let's not just talk about cloning. Let's discuss artificially constructing human beings by any means.
I'm not talking about in-vitro fertilisation in general (or at all, really). I'm talking about genetically constructing/cloning a human being for the sole purpose of using them in the name of science - harvesting their organs, testing medicines on them, using them for other means of research, things like that.
I can imagine support for such a practice is relatively slim, but I want to hear what you guys have to say. Do you think this sort of utilitarianism is ethical? Do you think we should invest in such research? Why or why not?

My friend writes stories, and one of her most recent concepts was a civilisation of artificially created people who were used to bear the burden of hard labour so that the naturally born people, unknown to them, could live lives of leisure. It was so ******** depressing I felt sick to my stomach.  

[village midget]

I think you have a very biased poll there madam....reminds me of voting in the free and democratic Zimbabwean election...*sigh*

otherwise this is a good topic, i am interested, i will be back after sleeping (it's 2am here) nice work wink  

[black_wing_angel]

While the "current" reasoning to clone humans sounds noble, enough, make no mistake, it WILL not end there.

Sure, at first it's all about "WE IZ GUNNA MAEK ORGUNS 4 PPL!!" but soon it'll be "WE NEEDZ CLOANS 2 FITE N DA WARZ!" and it only gets less and less moral, from there.  

[DioxazinePlum]

I think its highly unethical to do something only for your own gain if it hurts others. I'm more in support of developing machinery to replace body parts, like they do for hearts sometimes.

We would have no right to do such a thing. I have heard of using stem cells to create organs, which I'm much less opposed to. What you brought up however, raising people to kill them, is unacceptable and I sincerely hope that the idea forever stays within the Science Fiction setting.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

village midget

I think you have a very biased poll there madam....reminds me of voting in the free and democratic Zimbabwean election...*sigh*

lmao. cool Sleep well.

black_wing_angel

While the "current" reasoning to clone humans sounds noble, enough, make no mistake, it WILL not end there.

Sure, at first it's all about "WE IZ GUNNA MAEK ORGUNS 4 PPL!!" but soon it'll be "WE NEEDZ CLOANS 2 FITE N DA WARZ!" and it only gets less and less moral, from there.

Such is the way of progressive science, which is why I am very wary of those who want to go all the way. What does "all the way" mean? How far is too far? Our moral line will continue to get pushed back.
Hell, I don't even think the current reasoning is noble sounding. Cloning a full human to take out their lungs? No thanks. I mean, cloning a body part is one thing, but cloning a complete human and then tearing them apart is just... I really have no words to express my disgust in such a concept.

DioxazinePlum

I think its highly unethical to do something only for your own gain if it hurts others. I'm more in support of developing machinery to replace body parts, like they do for hearts sometimes.

We would have no right to do such a thing. I have heard of using stem cells to create organs, which I'm much less opposed to.

I agree with the machinery bit, as far as helping people goes.

Quote:

What you brought up however, raising people to kill them, is unacceptable and I sincerely hope that the idea forever stays within the Science Fiction setting.

Yes, my friend seems to be the Harriet Beecher Stowe of progressive science.  

[black_wing_angel]

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!

Let's say we do clone humans. It happens everyday, and it's not surprising to walk by 5 copies of the same guy.

Do these "clones" have "human rights", or are they basically just walking property? If they die, do we bury them, and give them a funeral, and all, or just send them to the incinerator?

And how do we know who's the clone, and who's the real deal?  

[Oxymouse]

Will the clone have the same thought process like me? If so then I wouldn't make another me.

But anyway, a real life HUMAN model will do wonders in learning and practice of medicine.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

black_wing_angel

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!

Let's say we do clone humans. It happens everyday, and it's not surprising to walk by 5 copies of the same guy.

Do these "clones" have "human rights", or are they basically just walking property? If they die, do we bury them, and give them a funeral, and all, or just send them to the incinerator?

And how do we know who's the clone, and who's the real deal?

Ah, the Sixth Day all over again, huh.
Why wouldn't they have rights? Do you mean if they were cloned to provide for their original copy if (s)he needs a body part? In that case, probably not, but I don't think they'd be allowed to go walking around since their parts are valuable and the risks of being out and about would be very high. Very likely I can imagine they've be put in some sort of vegetative state... but then that interferes with the quality of muscle and the brain, so ******** I dunno.
If they were cloned just to live - which would be dumb considering we are currently overpopulated (though might be a useful option if we were underpopulated) - then they should have their own rights. They are human beings, made up of the same stuff we are, and as clones they are essentially copies of somebody else, which means that if they were to have less rights than normal people, so too should their originals.

Oh, and you tell them apart by dots under their eyelids.

Oxy The Stupid Genius

Will the clone have the same thought process like me? If so then I wouldn't make another me.

But anyway, a real life HUMAN model will do wonders in learning and practice of medicine.

Yeah, I wouldn't either.

I plan on volunteering for such research if it is ever made widely legal, though I can't imagine that will occur in my lifetime. Like assisted suicide, the amount of framed "volunteering" would certainly exist, which would be a huge shame.

What about kidnapping homeless people and ripping out their vitals?  

[magmayoshi]

black_wing_angel

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!

Let's say we do clone humans. It happens everyday, and it's not surprising to walk by 5 copies of the same guy.

Do these "clones" have "human rights", or are they basically just walking property? If they die, do we bury them, and give them a funeral, and all, or just send them to the incinerator?

And how do we know who's the clone, and who's the real deal?

Probably upon completion, branding in an easily seen area like on the neck would show someone to be a clone. Kinda like the life crystals on people in Logan's Run but more visible and only for clones.

And people would probably be divided on whether the clones have rights for the same reasons there is division on a lot of things today.  

[Fresnel]

You know, cloning is one thing, but artificially aging the clone 40 years and then throttling back to make it age normally is a goddamn miracle. So how do you tell the original from the clones? The original is older.

Though I must say, clones would end the nature v. nurture debate once and for all. If you clone a gay man and the clone grows up to be gay... bam.  

[GREEEEEEEEEEEN]

black_wing_angel

While the "current" reasoning to clone humans sounds noble, enough, make no mistake, it WILL not end there.

Sure, at first it's all about "WE IZ GUNNA MAEK ORGUNS 4 PPL!!" but soon it'll be "WE NEEDZ CLOANS 2 FITE N DA WARZ!" and it only gets less and less moral, from there.

Agreeeeeee.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

You know, cloning is one thing, but artificially aging the clone 40 years and then throttling back to make it age normally is a goddamn miracle. So how do you tell the original from the clones? The original is older.

Though I must say, clones would end the nature v. nurture debate once and for all. If you clone a gay man and the clone grows up to be gay... bam.

Bioshock comes to mind, though Jack wasn't a clone - just an illegitimate child - which means the majority of the relation is gone, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.  

[black_wing_angel]

magmayoshi

black_wing_angel

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!

Let's say we do clone humans. It happens everyday, and it's not surprising to walk by 5 copies of the same guy.

Do these "clones" have "human rights", or are they basically just walking property? If they die, do we bury them, and give them a funeral, and all, or just send them to the incinerator?

And how do we know who's the clone, and who's the real deal?

Probably upon completion, branding in an easily seen area like on the neck would show someone to be a clone. Kinda like the life crystals on people in Logan's Run but more visible and only for clones.

And people would probably be divided on whether the clones have rights for the same reasons there is division on a lot of things today.

But what if a REAL person decided to brand himself, to avoid debts owed by "the real him". The clone wouldn't be resposible for them, so if they think he's a clone, he owes nothing. It's like faking your death, but easier.  

[Fresnel]

Silver Screen

Fresnel

You know, cloning is one thing, but artificially aging the clone 40 years and then throttling back to make it age normally is a goddamn miracle. So how do you tell the original from the clones? The original is older.

Though I must say, clones would end the nature v. nurture debate once and for all. If you clone a gay man and the clone grows up to be gay... bam.

Bioshock comes to mind, though Jack wasn't a clone - just an illegitimate child - which means the majority of the relation is gone, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

I've never played, so I have pretty much no idea what you're talking about. xd  

[Kuchen Fairy]

black_wing_angel

magmayoshi

black_wing_angel

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!

Let's say we do clone humans. It happens everyday, and it's not surprising to walk by 5 copies of the same guy.

Do these "clones" have "human rights", or are they basically just walking property? If they die, do we bury them, and give them a funeral, and all, or just send them to the incinerator?

And how do we know who's the clone, and who's the real deal?

Probably upon completion, branding in an easily seen area like on the neck would show someone to be a clone. Kinda like the life crystals on people in Logan's Run but more visible and only for clones.

And people would probably be divided on whether the clones have rights for the same reasons there is division on a lot of things today.

But what if a REAL person decided to brand himself, to avoid debts owed by "the real him". The clone wouldn't be resposible for them, so if they think he's a clone, he owes nothing. It's like faking your death, but easier.

Then he is branding himself as a "lesser person," assuming this is a dystopian society, which would leave him subject to organ-harvesting, medical testing, or simple disposal of all similar clones if a defect was spotted or the original was gone, thus rendering such clones unnecessary. I think I'd rather just actually be dead than feign it. eek

Fresnel

I've never played, so I have pretty much no idea what you're talking about. xd

I actually found that out while reading Bioshock's Wikipedia page. I knew Jack was from Rapture but I had no idea he was an illegit child who was medically aged so childhood growth was quick and easy. It's explained like s**t in the game; basically your sources of information are these audio diaries you find throughout the game. If you miss some of the more obvious ones, you probably won't know what the hell is going on.