Patrons: who chooses whom?

[raging-earth]

I'm coming apart at the seams...

I didn't see any topics on this topic, except for an advice one, but if there is I apologize for the repetition. Also, if this is in the wrong spot feel free to move it.

From what I can see there is a variety of different opinions when it comes to patron Gods and Goddesses and how they are chosen. Some people think the person chooses their patron, while others think they are chosen by that specific god or goddess. And then there are those who are in-between the two opinions.

What is your opinion?

Personally, I think it's a little bit of both. I think Set chose me as a potential follower, but that I had to make the choice to accept him as my patron God. Having him as my patron God is a little difficult, though, as I had never really been interested in Egyptian spirituality until he made an appearance in my life. Now, I'm trying to decide if I want to take a more Egyptian path in my paganism. (So if any of you have an recs for Egyptian-based books or websites I would love to receive them, preferably via PM as I don't want to direct this thread away from the main topic.)

...pitching myself for leads in other people's dreams.

 

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

I personally think it's up to the god to choose his/her followers.

I kind of feel it's presumptuous to go to a god and declare yourself one of theirs. I mean, you wouldn't walk up to someone well-known and go "Hey I'm going to be your friend now, okay?"

And usually, from what I've heard of other people's accounts, if a god wants you as his/her follower, they will pester the s**t out of you until you comply xd  

[Morgandria]

I'm firmly of the opinion that one cannot choose one's patrons - they choose you. No matter how much you may want to honour a particular deity, if they don't want you, they don't want you.

Even should you not return their interest, it does not mean they will nescessarily stop having one in your person. I can't count the number of people I know who outright refused to accept a deity as one of their patrons, only to continue to recieve constant demands from those deities. It's typically the individual who relents - hardly ever the Deity.

And in my experience, the Gods don't really care if it's convenient or easy for you to take up their service. That really doesn't concern them.

The question comes down to: do you really need a patron deity?

I say No. Some people just aren't the right kind to take up that sort of service.

Unfortunetely, modern neo-paganism has a lot of emphasis on personal patron deities, the same as there is pressure for people to know their totem. A lot of that crap comes from new-age thinking that's trickled down and into a lot of different paths: it's all about Self, it's all about someone's inner journey, it's all about ME. They expect their patrons will nurture, coddle, protect, shield, and uplift them, somehow. It's all talk of empowerment and sunshine and glitter and elfen farts.

But patron deities are not at all a 'ME' thing. It's about 'THEM'. You become Their child, Their servant, Their priesthood, and in some cases Their lover. They call you to Their service - something that can be difficult, frustrating, exhausting, and ultimately rewarding, even if one understands fully what's being asked. They will let you fail. They might sometimes leave you in the dark. They will kick your a**. They will expect you to look after yourself. Life is pain - and anyone who'll tell you otherwise is selling you something.

Think about it long and hard before you decide what to do - Set is unlikely to relent if He really desires your attentions.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

For the most part it's the deity that chooses you, but I think that in some cases you have a degree of choice in the matter- perhaps the depth of the relationship or the particular "role" you end up playing. Depends on the deity, but also a lot on the particular relationship you have with them.

Of course, had you chosen to tell Set to get stuffed, he may have changed his tactics somewhat wink Perhaps there's only the illusion of choice because of the way in which particular deities choose to approach us. Perhaps he started off with the gentle approach. *shrug*  

[doistu]

My patron's have yet to reveal Themselves to me but I'm ok with that. I'm not about to just pick one out of the air willynilly.
I'm of the opinion that the choosing of a patron deity is a mutual decision. You choose to seek out your patron deity and they reveal Themselves in whichever way suits them best.

I am close to a couple of the Netjer who may turn out to be my parents but if not then that's ok. I'm open to Whoever chooses me hehe.

I am pretty sure that my patrons are Kemetic though.  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

I think that it is a combination of both but more up to the deity

I think it is like trying get a book published you send off a copy to a few publishers and who ever shows interest is who you go with.  

[Shearaha]

I don't have one and I don't want one. Of course now that I've said that I know that someone's going to come knocking. I do have a relationship with an entitiy though. He's not and never was a god, but if the very very small amount of english research that I have is any good he was worshiped at one point. I've had a relationship with Orion since I was little. I do not worship him but I now work with him. All of this comes from one incident of UPG when I was 6-7. I didn't know who it was that had contacted me until I was reading tho Odyssey and read the description of Orion in the underworld.  

[havenne17]

You may choose to pay honor to whomever you please but I am of the opinion that patrons choose you. I have not found the relationships difficult; challenging and prone to taking unexpected turns, yes, but not unreasonable. Patrons can be puzzling but learning doesn't always take place in a linear fashion.
Those deities that have come calling to me weren't even both of the same pantheon, a lesson all its own. It has been quiet, lately.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

I'm kind of in the same boat as Shearaha; I don't have a patron deity at the moment. I wouldn't be opposed to it if a deity wanted me as one of their own though.

I still feel very new to Asatru yet, and while this is kind of an odd way to put it, I feel like at this stage still I'm being passed around from god to god like a baby; being held and bounced on a knee for a bit and then passed on to someone else xd (if that makes sense).  

[mechanical kitsy]

I don't have a patron, but I tend to favor Brigid...
Always have, I don't have a reason.
She isn't my favorite deity or anything.  

[raging-earth]

I have to say I'm somewhat relieved to hear that most of you agree that the deity is the main one doing the choosing. It's nice to see that there can be that agreement amongst a group of pagans that all have different backgrounds, as I've seen this topic argued to the point of anger before.

Sanguina Cruenta

Of course, had you chosen to tell Set to get stuffed, he may have changed his tactics somewhat. wink Perhaps there's only the illusion of choice because of the way in which particular deities choose to approach us. Perhaps he started off with the gentle approach. *shrug*

I'm coming apart at the seams...

I'm leaning toward the idea that my choice is more illusion than actual reality, one that I created because I'm so intent on having a choice. Considering it's Set I was really hesitant to give him much of any reply, lol. Of course, when he originally appeared I was still stuck in the idea of having a patron Goddess, instead of a God. I don't hear of many pagans with patron Gods, in fact out of the small pagan community I'm a part of I only know of one person who devotes themselves to a God instead of a Goddess. Not that pagans uphold the Goddess form above the God's, but the New Age part of paganism seems to put an emphasis on Goddess above God. I got caught up in that when I first began my pagan path, so Set's appearance in my life was and still is a bit of a shock.

And now I'm babbling. lol.

...pitching myself for leads in other people's dreams.

 

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I'd say it'd also be possible that for some gods and some relationships, the actual choice to follow them is part of some sort of test, or contract. Or something. I'm not entirely sure at this point. But there's a chance that for some deities, they say "I want you. But for reasons I will not disclose, you have to choose to follow me and accept this of your own volition." Possibly so that you can't complain about it later.  

[Starlock]

I find the whole emphasis on patron deities a little odd, honestly. Depending on the flavor of one's path, it isn't something necessary to have. It isn't actually something I see mentioned formally in most of the sources I've read; the place I see it most often has actually been in forums around here. Regardless, I personally wouldn't get hung up about any 'choice' part, as the concept of 'free will' is to some people a false one. I think the idea of 'choosing' or not is less important than considering what it is you're expecting to get out of the relationship and why you want the relationship. A relationship of any kind that is all about one of the two involved isn't much of a relationship.  

[havenne17]

Having a patron God or Goddess was expected in a structured quasi-recon organization I belonged to for quite awhile. The leaders of the org. did not have a rule about how the relationship was struck up though you often heard stories of how the deity appeared to their 'chosen'. Perhaps this shows a preference within the group for the God or Goddess to choose you rather than the other way around.

I might venture that patronage is a recon thing but that may just be assuming on my part.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

What recon-esque organization were you a member of?

I don't think I've come across any that have a patron deity as an expectation. From what I've learned so far, (for Asatru anyways) having a patron doesn't have a huge amount of historical basis as the gods were more like family, older siblings even, so to have a patron was kind of like choosing a favorite brother or sister. Now, that isn't to say that people who do have patrons are "less recon-y" of course.