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 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:59 pm
There are tons of rifles I would have loved to see go in the hands of servicemen but since they didn't make it, they should have at least modified them for civilian use and offered them in the market.
An example of one of these would be the HK XM8, which I thought was a great concept since it could easily be modified to fit different purposes.
And another would be the HK 416 which I believe would have easily surpassed the M16 in combat.
(btw the HK 416 is in service but only by certain Special Operations teams.)
Now, what guns would you guys have loved to see in the hands of servicemen or in the market? cool
-Rain
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:14 pm
I want to see a civilian Bizon, but that will never happen, same with the REX .357. Damn Russia for making such kick a** weapons that I can never have.
On a slightly more serious note, I would like to see the 416, or some AR varient in 6.X in the hands of our military. I tried to get into a conversation with a guy at a gunshow about the 6.8 round, but he didn't seem to want to talk to me. His loss.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:19 pm
There are so many that I want to have for sale to civilians.
I really can't choose any which one.
We'd hit almost all those birds with one stone if we dropped the import restrictions.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:19 pm
I'll admit the 416 looks to be a pretty spiffy gun, but I'm not too hot on H&K. The XM8 was a piece of crap that would require a refit of the ENTIRE US arsenal in order to adopt it. At least the 416 understands that full-length under-rails are a NECESSITY, not a luxury.
On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:37 pm
Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits)
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:39 pm
Fresnel I'll admit the 416 looks to be a pretty spiffy gun, but I'm not too hot on H&K. The XM8 was a piece of crap that would require a refit of the ENTIRE US arsenal in order to adopt it. At least the 416 understands that full-length under-rails are a NECESSITY, not a luxury. On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. Yeah, the Morita is pretty cash. And what you said on the 416. Now, there's no doubt at all that it's a fine, fine rifle. However, the question comes concerning price. As an HK weapon, there's a question of how much of it you're paying for the name and how much for the actual weapon. In the end, it's an AR-15 with a gas piston and burst or auto sear. They throw around the word modularity to mean you can change the barrels and gas system and the forearm that surrounds it. Which is nothing special, actually. Other than the lack of Picatinny rails, which the entire US arsenal is geared around now, the XM8 also didn't use STANAG magazines. Which would mean no longer compatible with all the billions of magazines lying around. And again, they throw modularity around- the M16/M4 platform can do anything the XM8 can do. Can it do it better? Well, given the fact that it's railed for her pleasure, yes.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:00 pm
There are TONS of piston ARs out now.
And they cost less than the HK.
And I bet they're more reliable.
I'm with Horrified Survivor in this.
And a note, we changed from Picatinny rails to a NATO standard, which is completely compatible with Picatinny, it pretty much just specifies different surfaces to use to ensure that the parts are in tolerance during production that are more accurate.
EDIT:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/15/goodbye-picatinny-hello-nato-accessory-rail/
There it is
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:10 pm
OO23OO Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits) Though it was in a fictional movie, the rifle was real. The only thing Hollywood'd was the round count.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:32 pm
Fresnel OO23OO Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits) Though it was in a fictional movie, the rifle was real. The only thing Hollywood'd was the round count. Real weapons in a shell. Also, the rounds they showed were more like 20mm ro something ridiculous. Also, the M41A pulse rifle was a thompson with an 870 underslung. And now, with the FRAG-12 round, it is possible. Not 10mm, although, if they could make a thompson in 10mm Auto... Anyway. Hmm. STANAG rails. Sounds good, should actually have some interesting eurotrash guns.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:58 pm
Horrified Survivor Fresnel OO23OO Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits) Though it was in a fictional movie, the rifle was real. The only thing Hollywood'd was the round count. Real weapons in a shell. Also, the rounds they showed were more like 20mm ro something ridiculous. Also, the M41A pulse rifle was a thompson with an 870 underslung. And now, with the FRAG-12 round, it is possible. Not 10mm, although, if they could make a thompson in 10mm Auto... Anyway. Hmm. STANAG rails. Sounds good, should actually have some interesting eurotrash guns. The only rounds I saw were the shells pouring out, which were obviously live-fire .223 rounds. Maybe the .mil should just look into gas-piston conversion kits? Probably FAR cheaper than buying whole new rifles. Though IMO, they should boot Colt in the a** and find a new manufacturer.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:37 pm
Whoa, a lot to reply to, lol. In any case, like I said, the XM8 was a good CONCEPT and maybe might be a good rifle for special operations units to employ. As for the HK 416, the reason I say it would do better than the M16s/M4s that are currently in service is because of this
Quote: In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 60,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment." The purpose of the shootoff was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4. The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 6,000 total rounds, the FN SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages.
-Rain
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Fresnel Horrified Survivor Fresnel OO23OO Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits) Though it was in a fictional movie, the rifle was real. The only thing Hollywood'd was the round count. Real weapons in a shell. Also, the rounds they showed were more like 20mm ro something ridiculous. Also, the M41A pulse rifle was a thompson with an 870 underslung. And now, with the FRAG-12 round, it is possible. Not 10mm, although, if they could make a thompson in 10mm Auto... Anyway. Hmm. STANAG rails. Sounds good, should actually have some interesting eurotrash guns. The only rounds I saw were the shells pouring out, which were obviously live-fire .223 rounds. Maybe the .mil should just look into gas-piston conversion kits? Probably FAR cheaper than buying whole new rifles. Though IMO, they should boot Colt in the a** and find a new manufacturer. Early in the movie, when a soldier hands out live rounds to kids, they were not .223, I'm pretty sure. Maybe. Although, dont' know if anywhere has the output to make enough to replace them. @Rain- we've all seen that.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:54 pm
Horrified Survivor Fresnel Horrified Survivor Fresnel OO23OO Fresnel On the subject of guns I think it would be awesome to use, I still think someone should take a look at the Starship Troopers' Morita Rifle. Built around an AC556 and an Ithica 12-gauge. ******** yeah. If we're gunna go into the realm of fiction, I would like to see the Auto9 from Robocop (Not a rifle, but it still kinda fits) Though it was in a fictional movie, the rifle was real. The only thing Hollywood'd was the round count. Real weapons in a shell. Also, the rounds they showed were more like 20mm ro something ridiculous. Also, the M41A pulse rifle was a thompson with an 870 underslung. And now, with the FRAG-12 round, it is possible. Not 10mm, although, if they could make a thompson in 10mm Auto... Anyway. Hmm. STANAG rails. Sounds good, should actually have some interesting eurotrash guns. The only rounds I saw were the shells pouring out, which were obviously live-fire .223 rounds. Maybe the .mil should just look into gas-piston conversion kits? Probably FAR cheaper than buying whole new rifles. Though IMO, they should boot Colt in the a** and find a new manufacturer. Early in the movie, when a soldier hands out live rounds to kids, they were not .223, I'm pretty sure. Maybe. Although, dont' know if anywhere has the output to make enough to replace them. @Rain- we've all seen that.
I'm just pointing out my reasons for making that statement ninja
-Rain
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 am
One thing no one mentions is that it's only a 12.5" barrel. That' two inches shorter than the M4, and given the loss of power from a 20" to 14.5", eh.
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:00 am
Horrified Survivor One thing no one mentions is that it's only a 12.5" barrel. That' two inches shorter than the M4, and given the loss of power from a 20" to 14.5", eh. I don't know the power numbers, but I can remember offhand it's a 200 yard loss in effective range between 16" and 20". The Colt Commando (at only 11.5" of barrel) clocks 2,611 ft/s, though.
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