Sweep -- a book series. Anyone read it?

[SADERR]

I'm curious what the views of others are on this series. While it gives some basic insight into wicca that attracts younger readers, we are soon piled up to our heads in protective runes, witche's lightning bolts, and 7 ancient clans of wicca that have a blood line to this day.

Obviously, it's a fiction story. I enjoyed the books because I kept note that it was all just another story, and I found it nice to read a booktat was LOOSELY based on my religion.

So, for those who have read it.. Did you think that the story was okay, even though the information was rubbish? Did you think the whole thing was bloody terrible? Or somehow did you happen to think that it gave useful information? (In which case i suggest you leave this guild now, xD)

(Mind you, I've only rerad about 6 out of the 12 or so books. They're not at the library, which is a small dissapointment.)

Sincerely,
-Jonathonn  

[Morgandria]

Jonathonn

I'm curious what the views of others are on this series. While it gives some basic insight into wicca that attracts younger readers, we are soon piled up to our heads in protective runes, witche's lightning bolts, and 7 ancient clans of wicca that have a blood line to this day.

Obviously, it's a fiction story. I enjoyed the books because I kept note that it was all just another story, and I found it nice to read a booktat was LOOSELY based on my religion.

So, for those who have read it.. Did you think that the story was okay, even though the information was rubbish? Did you think the whole thing was bloody terrible? Or somehow did you happen to think that it gave useful information? (In which case i suggest you leave this guild now, xD)

(Mind you, I've only rerad about 6 out of the 12 or so books. They're not at the library, which is a small dissapointment.)

Sincerely,
-Jonathonn

1) There's tons of 'Wiccan' fiction out there. *shrugs* Just like there's 'Wiccan' non-fiction books. None of it is particularily accurate.

2) What tradition are you lineaged in that you would find these sorts of books even -remotely- close to Wiccan practice?  

[SADERR]

Morgandria

Jonathonn

I'm curious what the views of others are on this series. While it gives some basic insight into wicca that attracts younger readers, we are soon piled up to our heads in protective runes, witche's lightning bolts, and 7 ancient clans of wicca that have a blood line to this day.

Obviously, it's a fiction story. I enjoyed the books because I kept note that it was all just another story, and I found it nice to read a booktat was LOOSELY based on my religion.

So, for those who have read it.. Did you think that the story was okay, even though the information was rubbish? Did you think the whole thing was bloody terrible? Or somehow did you happen to think that it gave useful information? (In which case i suggest you leave this guild now, xD)

(Mind you, I've only rerad about 6 out of the 12 or so books. They're not at the library, which is a small dissapointment.)

Sincerely,
-Jonathonn

1) There's tons of 'Wiccan' fiction out there. *shrugs* Just like there's 'Wiccan' non-fiction books. None of it is particularily accurate.

2) What tradition are you lineaged in that you would find these sorts of books even -remotely- close to Wiccan practice?

Oh, no no no!
God,everyone in this guild takes everything VERY literal. I do not find it "wiccan" in the slightest, but they do base it around the god and goddess, and the religion is namd Wicca several times (a good hundred or so, xP). So for someone new and interested in Wicca, with little to no knowledge, they would be mislead to believe some things.
My friend actually brought up the books when i had told her I was Wiccan, and I had to explain ALOT. (Side question -- is "alot" a word, or is it properly "a lot"?)
My tradition, or "strand" as i refer it to as (no clue why, really.) is Eclectic, mind you this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  

[Morgandria]

Jonathonn

My friend actually brought up the books when i had told her I was Wiccan, and I had to explain ALOT. (Side question -- is "alot" a word, or is it properly "a lot"?)
My tradition, or "strand" as i refer it to as (no clue why, really.) is Eclectic, mind you this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

To be honest, I could care less what a series of fiction portrays as Wiccan. The books are not intended to be factual - just entertaining. Whether or not the series is 'misleading' about Wicca is almost irrelevant: the majority of books purporting to be about 'Wicca' at this time are just as misleading factually.

What I'm trying to point out to you is that you yourself do not have knowledge of Wicca proper. Factually, you aren't an initiate in a tradition - and you can't be, at 14. You aren't a Wiccan yet. I've already stated it once - "Eclectic" is not a tradition of Wicca.

Whatever you are practicing, whatever you think Wicca is...isn't. The core of Wicca is oathbound, and is known only to initiates. This includes the names of the Lord and Lady, and the proper way to perform the rites of Wicca. Whatever you've read, online or in those lovely books in the bookstores or your library, have no actual Wicca in them.

I don't have any issue with what you believe or what you do. My issue is with you calling Wicca, and yourself Wiccan. You have no earned the right to use those titles.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Those books made a whole bunch of irritating teenagers go around calling themselves "blood witches". I hold a grudge.  

[doistu]

I read some of them when I was younger and found a copy of one on the net recently.

The writing is pretty abysmal, the development of the characters is atrocious.
As a series I'm not that jazzed about it. Saying that I'm not in a good mood now so I may be harsher than I mean to be.
It seems a pretty bad series to be honest...and it plays like a soap opera...so and so loves so and so who hates so and so who's brothers with the first so and so...it goes around in circles.

Also, notions of 'blood witches' and 'witch fire' are too far fetched.
And whats with the blowing on tea to cool it down being 'magical'? Common sense as far as I can tell.

/rant.  

[Tari_Leralonde]

I've read the entire series and I find it rather entertaining. If you don't think about how it portrays witchcraft and just focus on the fact that it's a fictional book series, it's fairly good, though I agree with doistu on the fact that the writing and the development of characters isn't the best. And it's kinda soap opera-y. But again I say, very entertaining smile I like to read it, laugh at it, and put it down.  

[Sybil Unrest]

I rather liked it.

Like everyone's been saying, its a fiction series, so most people (maybe not everyone) knows that its not meant to be factual so much as it is entertaining. I can see why some people would assume it is though - that is the trouble with putting the name of a real religion into your books, much better to do what most fantasy authors do and make up one which is similar to a real religion, but with a different name.

Incidentally, its called "Wicca", not "Sweep", in the UK.  

[ncsweet]

Sybil Unrest

Incidentally, its called "Wicca", not "Sweep", in the UK.

That is just so wrong! gonk  

[SADERR]

ncsweet

Sybil Unrest

Incidentally, its called "Wicca", not "Sweep", in the UK.

That is just so wrong! gonk

Indeed, it's an abomination! xD

And to Morgandia:
Eclectic Wicca is an accepted branch of Wiccan tradition. It is viewed as a part of the Wiccan community. Perhaps not as close-knit as Gardenian or Alexandrian, but it is an accepted branch of wicca.
Your theories and my theories are simply that; Theories. They are opinionative, and arguing on the matter will only cause irritation, grief, and misery. The topic is rather worth dropping. I am only 14 years of age, and ofcourse I am not initiated. Nor do I claim "self initiatin". It's bloody preposterous. Also, you treat it like a freaking exclusive religion. What is this, the wiccan country club?
Do I plan on being initiated one day? Hopefully, but in a small city like mine, we can't all manage to find an initiator. I am practically self taught. The only other human resource I have is my mother, who studies more paranormal things. (Fascinating, but not quite up my alley, mind you).
So, in simple fact, neither of us are right, nor wrong. This is all simply perspective and opinion. I believe you should not be so concerned about my religious beliefs and stay to your own. This religion preaches often of an open mind -- perhaps you should try your hand at that. Also, I asked a question on the opinion of a piece of literature, not my personal beliefs. The book holds no actual resemblance to Wicca, save the name, the symbolistic traits, and basic theologies.
Trust me, I'm looking for a teacher, but it's not easy. I plan on waiting until I am older, most teachers will not teach someone my age, for obvious reasons. But am I supposed to drop all my interest and pursuit in wicca and wait until I am 18 and a legal adult? I think not! I have the right to explore the religion as I will, and that is ultimately something you have no decision on.
This community would be far better off if those who were well-learned actually taught others instead of shrugging them off and speaking rudely to them! If you believe someone is on a stray path, then you'd be best to help them, or leave them be and let them find their own way!

If it makes you any happier to know, if I was talking to someone who was learned in Wicca, I would not refer to myself as Wiccan, but simply as a student of Wicca, or someone studying Wicca. This was simply a misinformed friend, I disposed of my proper wording at that moment, oh well. They didn't know the bloody difference in the first place, why explain more when I can put a simple word?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Jonathonn

And to Morgandia:
Eclectic Wicca is an accepted branch of Wiccan tradition.

No, it isn't.
Morgandria, as a proper, initiated Wiccan, is telling you that it is not.
And how do you assume to call it a tradition when there is so little there to actually be a cohesive "tradition"?

Quote:

It is viewed as a part of the Wiccan community.

Is it? By whom? Proper Wiccans? Or self-entitled teens who want to gank a title they have not properly earned?

Quote:

Perhaps not as close-knit as Gardenian or Alexandrian, but it is an accepted branch of wicca.

I'll have to ask you to prove that it is an accepted branch of Wicca. Because me and almost all of the proper Wiccans I know would call bullshit.

Quote:

Your theories and my theories are simply that; Theories.

Except her opinions are backed up with fact. Yours are not.

Quote:

They are opinionative, and arguing on the matter will only cause irritation, grief, and misery.

For whom?

Quote:

The topic is rather worth dropping.

Actually, I think it's worth talking about. Why drop a topic that has the potential to correct misinformation? Why would you want to cling to that misinformation?

Quote:

I am only 14 years of age, and ofcourse I am not initiated. Nor do I claim "self initiatin".

So you are not a proper Wiccan. We got that.

Quote:

It's bloody preposterous. Also, you treat it like a freaking exclusive religion. What is this, the wiccan country club?

OH MY. Gawdess FORBID that a religion be allowed to regulate who is and is not properly a member of the faith. That's...what's the word you used? Oh, preposterous. How dare Wiccans hold standards??? Don't they know that there's thousands of whiny, yoo-neek teenagers just DYING to be Wiccan???
If you don't like the requirements the faith has for its members, I have to wonder why you are using the name of that faith.

Quote:

Do I plan on being initiated one day? Hopefully, but in a small city like mine, we can't all manage to find an initiator.

Oh if I had a dime for every time I heard the "I live in a small conservative town" excuse.
Sometimes being a priest/ess to the Lord and Lady of the Isles requires sacrifices. Time. Money. Resources. If you're not willing to sacrifice those things, what business do you have wanting to be a priest/ess to those gods?

Quote:

I am practically self taught. The only other human resource I have is my mother, who studies more paranormal things. (Fascinating, but not quite up my alley, mind you).

I applaud you for teaching yourself what you know so far. However, what you have taught yourself is not Wicca. Not to say it is invalid. It just simply isn't Wicca.

Quote:

So, in simple fact, neither of us are right, nor wrong. This is all simply perspective and opinion.

Yes, Morgandria is right, actually. Her opinions are supported by what the founder of the religion said. Yours are not. Guess which one holds more weight?

Quote:

I believe you should not be so concerned about my religious beliefs and stay to your own.

Except, by your wrongly claiming the title of "Wiccan", you are stepping on the toes of her faith. Or do you hold a double standard in which she can't correct you in your faith, but you can freely rape and steal from hers?

Quote:

This religion preaches often of an open mind -- perhaps you should try your hand at that.

Shove your "open-minded" line. Seriously. People like you make being open-minded a goddamn insult.
She has actually been very polite and civil in correcting you. So to call her approach rude is asking to have real rudeness shown to you.

Quote:

Also, I asked a question on the opinion of a piece of literature, not my personal beliefs. The book holds no actual resemblance to Wicca, save the name, the symbolistic traits, and basic theologies.

Suffice to say, the conversation has evolved.

Quote:

Trust me, I'm looking for a teacher, but it's not easy. I plan on waiting until I am older, most teachers will not teach someone my age, for obvious reasons. But am I supposed to drop all my interest and pursuit in wicca and wait until I am 18 and a legal adult?

Or you could use this time to explore other Pagan faiths. Or read up on the history of Wicca. Or look into the CM orders that Wicca draws from.
At the very least you could call your faith what it is - Eclectic Neo-paganism.

Quote:

I have the right to explore the religion as I will, and that is ultimately something you have no decision on.

Explore, yes. Call yourself a practitioner of when you do not meet the requirements and have not earned the title? Well, you shouldn't be surprised when people who are properly of the community take umbrage to your stealing.

Quote:

This community would be far better off if those who were well-learned actually taught others instead of shrugging them off and speaking rudely to them!

WTF.
She has been trying to teach you, to correct you on your misinformation.
Or is it only rude because she's not agreeing with you?
You have had this explained to you at least twice now that I can think of here. Obviously the hand-holding-and-coddling method is NOT working.

Quote:

If you believe someone is on a stray path, then you'd be best to help them, or leave them be and let them find their own way!

SHE IS TRYING TO HELP YOU.

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If it makes you any happier to know, if I was talking to someone who was learned in Wicca, I would not refer to myself as Wiccan, but simply as a student of Wicca, or someone studying Wicca.

Newsflash: Morgandria is a proper, initiated Wiccan.

Quote:

This was simply a misinformed friend, I disposed of my proper wording at that moment, oh well. They didn't know the bloody difference in the first place, why explain more when I can put a simple word?

So you're okay with spreading misinformation by virtue that it's *easier* for you to explain?
neutral
Wow, I'm really glad your teachers in school didn't think that way (for the most part).  

[Morgandria]

Jonathonn

And to Morgandia:
Eclectic Wicca is an accepted branch of Wiccan tradition. It is viewed as a part of the Wiccan community. Perhaps not as close-knit as Gardenian or Alexandrian, but it is an accepted branch of wicca.

Only by those who are not actually of the Wicca. It is by no means Wicca, because it does not maintain the orthopraxy of Wicca, which is what defines the religion.

In fact, you're lucky if you can get 'eclectic Wiccans' to agree on even the basics of their path - let alone establish a tradition of practices amongst themselves. They define themselves by not adhering to any one specific way of practice. Wicca is itself one very specific way of practice. In this case, you can be one but not the other.

Jonathonn

Your theories and my theories are simply that; Theories. They are opinionative, and arguing on the matter will only cause irritation, grief, and misery. The topic is rather worth dropping. I am only 14 years of age, and ofcourse I am not initiated. Nor do I claim "self initiatin". It's bloody preposterous. Also, you treat it like a freaking exclusive religion. What is this, the wiccan country club?

Except...I am not speaking theoretically. I'm speaking from experience, as a Gardnerian Wiccan, and someone who has been pagan since about the age you are now.

Wicca -is- exclusive. We've never denied that. Covens have their own autonomy, to choose the members that are best suited to Wicca, and to be a member of an initiated priesthood. The knowledge Wicca offers is not for everyone, nor is the lifetime of service to the Lord and Lady you enter into upon initiation. We have the right to maintain quality control over the members of our religion. People are not entitled to membership, or our practices, or our knowledge. It must be earned.

Jonathonn

Do I plan on being initiated one day? Hopefully, but in a small city like mine, we can't all manage to find an initiator. I am practically self taught. The only other human resource I have is my mother, who studies more paranormal things. (Fascinating, but not quite up my alley, mind you).

I grew up in a much smaller town in Ontario, isolated in the center of farm country - you are lucky that you live where you do. Believe it or not, you have many more resources available to you than I did at your age.

The point here I want to make is: sometimes you have to wait. You will definetely have to wait until you're 18. You'll certainly have to find the right coven, and earn your initiation with hard work. And that's going to take time.

I spent 15 years, first as a pagan such as yourself, then as a Seeker of Wicca, earning my right to the title of Wiccan.

I am not saying and have never said what you do and what you believe is wrong. What I've been trying to say to you is that you haven't hit Wicca yet, and you'll have to earn the right to call yourself a Wiccan.

In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with being an eclectic pagan. I used the name for a long time. All I am asking is that you do not appropriate a title - Wiccan - from my religion that you haven't got any right to use.

Jonathonn

So, in simple fact, neither of us are right, nor wrong. This is all simply perspective and opinion. I believe you should not be so concerned about my religious beliefs and stay to your own. This religion preaches often of an open mind -- perhaps you should try your hand at that.

I am extrordinarily open-minded - but I will not open my head so far my brain falls out.

Quite frankly - I could care less about your beliefs. But you're treading on the toes of the Wica - and possibly causing harm to me, and my brothers and sisters. I've oathed to protect them - and that sometimes includes clearing up misconceptions and misinformation about Wicca.

Jonathonn

Trust me, I'm looking for a teacher, but it's not easy. I plan on waiting until I am older, most teachers will not teach someone my age, for obvious reasons. But am I supposed to drop all my interest and pursuit in wicca and wait until I am 18 and a legal adult? I think not! I have the right to explore the religion as I will, and that is ultimately something you have no decision on.
This community would be far better off if those who were well-learned actually taught others instead of shrugging them off and speaking rudely to them! If you believe someone is on a stray path, then you'd be best to help them, or leave them be and let them find their own way!

*sigh* Just be honest with yourself. You're studying neo-paganism. Before someone's initiated, they are, too. What Wicca calls outer-court information - what is taught to our students in preparation - contains no Wicca at all. It's designed to prepare them for what comes after initiation. So NO - you do not have to drop your interests, at all. What you learn is going to be valuable in its' own way.

Just bear in mind that covens tend to prefer students who are blank slates - who do not have misinformation and misconceptions to correct and 're-educate'. Wicca is a long way off for you - fill the time by educating yourself on anything and everything that interests you. Read critically, and understand that what's called Wicca on the shelves and online, is not.

For what it is worth, I am not trying to be rude, or condescending to you. I'm sorry if you feel I am.

Jonathonn

If it makes you any happier to know, if I was talking to someone who was learned in Wicca, I would not refer to myself as Wiccan, but simply as a student of Wicca, or someone studying Wicca. This was simply a misinformed friend, I disposed of my proper wording at that moment, oh well. They didn't know the bloody difference in the first place, why explain more when I can put a simple word?

Frankly, it does, but as this proves - you never know who is learned in Wicca and who isn't simply by looking. I don't tend to broadcast my degree or tradition, simply because it shouldn't matter. I do know what I'm talking about. I do so calmly and politely, and I understand that it's hard for people when you challenge their pre-conceived ideas with unwelcome truths. I have been there myself.

I understand it's hard to explain concepts to people. But using a word that isn't the correct one simply leads to more problems in the end. It may be convenient to use the media-hyped word, but it leads to people assuming all things pagan = Wicca, all things magical = Wicca, all things supernatural = Wicca, etc. And it makes an even bigger quagmire for some of us to slog through.

Doing what's right is a lot harder than we like, sometimes.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Morgandria

but it leads to people assuming all things pagan = Wicca, all things magical = Wicca, all things supernatural = Wicca, etc. And it makes an even bigger quagmire for some of us to slog through.

Uh huh - and this harms more than Wiccans. It's a pain in the a** having to explain that, no, my gods are not all One God, and no, my faith is not related to Wicca, no, I don't cast circles, no, I don't follow the Rede.... Gets tiresome.

Paganism, and the Pagan community, is harmed by this sort of homogenization.  

[SADERR]

Morgandria -- After reading everything over, I do admit I was wrong.
My apologies. I'm sorry to say my only resources are my copy of Wicca for Beginners, what few books are available at the library, and the internet, which cannot always be trusted. I have been misinformed, and thus I apologize. If it makes you any happier, I will gladly use the title "Eclectic Pagan". Such a thing does not bother me at all... I just simply thought I was following that of a wiccan path as paganism is such a large umbrella term, and my theologic beliefs are the same as Wicca.
And I understand I live in a fairly populated city, but it is rather hard to find..anything, in this city. You said I have more resources..If by any chance you know of any in my city for whatever reason, I would be thrilled to know them.
To put it simply I am not sure, but I believe the day I posted my replies was a fairly bad one. he days at this time have been jumping from great to horrid, it's hard to keep track. Anger is shortlived, I had no right to take it out on anyone, and I think that is what I did. So my apologies for that, as well. I am hoping this can be put behind us -- I'm happy to have learned something at the very least.  

[Morgandria]

Jonathonn

Morgandria -- After reading everything over, I do admit I was wrong.
My apologies. I'm sorry to say my only resources are my copy of Wicca for Beginners, what few books are available at the library, and the internet, which cannot always be trusted. I have been misinformed, and thus I apologize. If it makes you any happier, I will gladly use the title "Eclectic Pagan". Such a thing does not bother me at all... I just simply thought I was following that of a wiccan path as paganism is such a large umbrella term, and my theologic beliefs are the same as Wicca.
And I understand I live in a fairly populated city, but it is rather hard to find..anything, in this city. You said I have more resources..If by any chance you know of any in my city for whatever reason, I would be thrilled to know them.
To put it simply I am not sure, but I believe the day I posted my replies was a fairly bad one. he days at this time have been jumping from great to horrid, it's hard to keep track. Anger is shortlived, I had no right to take it out on anyone, and I think that is what I did. So my apologies for that, as well. I am hoping this can be put behind us -- I'm happy to have learned something at the very least.

Apology accepted. I am glad you took the time to rethink things. I truly wasn't condemning you or your practice. smile

I honestly don't know of anything in Windsor offhand, simply because I've never lived that far south. But if you are still Seeking when you get older, my sister coven is just across the border in Detroit.