Cheating the System

[Zella L.]

When I was at Califur, I had lost my wallet a few days before so I only had $30 for the whole weekend (and that included trying to get home, several hundred miles away!)
To ensure that I had enough money to get home without starving, I found myself cheating the system a lot. I hopped onto buses without paying, asked for a cup of water (which restaurants are required to give you for free) and filled half of it with lemonade at the fountain, didn't buy a Califur badge and instead snuck into rooms requiring conbadges. I bought a train ticket for children (meaning under 18, and I'm 19), and I knew that no one would ask me to prove my age nor would they be able to prove it if they had. I was even planning on sleeping under one of the drawing tables, but a room opened up that my friend had already payed for.

That being said, I do think I usually use my money ethically. I support gay-friendly businesses, give leftovers and full lunches to the homeless, bike everywhere (instead of driving), and I'm a semi-vegetarian. (purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment.) I support independent artists at flea markets who don't make much money at all, and don't steal (unless you consider those listed things above stealing.) Every year I ask for donations to charities for my birthday and Christmas.

So my question is, should one never cheat the system? In this instance, I would have been stranded if I hadn't. Would it be unethical to see two movies on your computer, and then take the money you would have spent going to the theater and buying a Feed Bag (Something you can purchase at Whole Foods for $25, that feeds 100 people)? Especially since the movie industry is doing particularly well? What if I was a freegan? What if I didn't want to support something that required payment, but for some reason had to use it anyway? What if someone had no money, and for some reason couldn't get it (say they are in school)? I suppose the economy wouldn't work out nearly as well if the honor system weren't as effective.  

[Shaviv]

You shouldn't do that stuff.

Compared to some of the stuff that more morally upright or at least more self-righteous people, like Republican members of congress, get up to, you're practically a saint.

Look, everyone sins. The question is, who does it hurt, to what degree, and how directly and inevitably does it hurt them?

If buying a child's train ticket when you're 19 is what weighs on your conscience, keep doing what you're doing, you'll probably live a life relatively unencumbered by regrets.  

[F a w k s i]

Zella L.

. I support gay-friendly businesses

Has nothing to do with anything.  

[Garek Maxwell]

F a w k s i

Zella L.

. I support gay-friendly businesses

Has nothing to do with anything.

Supporting equality is a bad thing? confused  

[F a w k s i]

Garek Maxwell

F a w k s i

Zella L.

. I support gay-friendly businesses

Has nothing to do with anything.

Supporting equality is a bad thing? confused

She makes it sound like she's buying stuff from that store JUST because it's owners are gay. That's a stupid reason.  

[Isaol]

Zella L.

When I was at Califur, I had lost my wallet a few days before so I only had $30 for the whole weekend (and that included trying to get home, several hundred miles away!)
To ensure that I had enough money to get home without starving, I found myself cheating the system a lot. I hopped onto buses without paying, asked for a cup of water (which restaurants are required to give you for free) and filled half of it with lemonade at the fountain, didn't buy a Califur badge and instead snuck into rooms requiring conbadges. I bought a train ticket for children (meaning under 18, and I'm 19), and I knew that no one would ask me to prove my age nor would they be able to prove it if they had. I was even planning on sleeping under one of the drawing tables, but a room opened up that my friend had already payed for.

That being said, I do think I usually use my money ethically. I support gay-friendly businesses, give leftovers and full lunches to the homeless, bike everywhere (instead of driving), and I'm a semi-vegetarian. (purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment.) I support independent artists at flea markets who don't make much money at all, and don't steal (unless you consider those listed things above stealing.) Every year I ask for donations to charities for my birthday and Christmas.

So my question is, should one never cheat the system? In this instance, I would have been stranded if I hadn't. Would it be unethical to see two movies on your computer, and then take the money you would have spent going to the theater and buying a Feed Bag (Something you can purchase at Whole Foods for $25, that feeds 100 people)? Especially since the movie industry is doing particularly well? What if I was a freegan? What if I didn't want to support something that required payment, but for some reason had to use it anyway? What if someone had no money, and for some reason couldn't get it (say they are in school)? I suppose the economy wouldn't work out nearly as well if the honor system weren't as effective.

Haa Lol The world is what it is. This is a rollercoaster going down, ride it, enjoy it. I am. Besides meat is awesome, ah like a medium rare steak! Love those. I went to Outback and had one, they messed up my friend's order, he wanted it well done, so they let him have the ******** up for free. He gave it to me and I ate it cold for breakfast.

Oh but, you're a ************ Such views are just expected from you people.

F a w k s i

Garek Maxwell

F a w k s i

Zella L.

. I support gay-friendly businesses

Has nothing to do with anything.

Supporting equality is a bad thing? confused

She makes it sound like she's buying stuff from that store JUST because it's owners are gay. That's a stupid reason.

Lol yup  

[Garek Maxwell]

F a w k s i

She makes it sound like she's buying stuff from that store JUST because it's owners are gay. That's a stupid reason.

Since when do owners or employees have to be gay to be gay-friendly? Gay friendly just means not acting like an a** when a potential employee or customer comes by who just happens to be gay. It's not supporting inequalities by funding political campaign and rally's and things against equality. It's those sorts of things.

Any business can be gay friendly, but plenty aren't. If given the choice, would you spend your money on a business that has refused to employ people because of their sexuality, race, or for even being transgendered? Or one that makes it very difficult for such people to do business? (Can be anything from bad customer service to employees making rude remarks towards people.) I know I certainly wouldn't support these businesses. I don't like being treated as a second class citizen, much less as worse.  

[Alex Jace]

Zella L.

When I was at Califur, I had lost my wallet a few days before so I only had $30 for the whole weekend (and that included trying to get home, several hundred miles away!)
To ensure that I had enough money to get home without starving, I found myself cheating the system a lot. I hopped onto buses without paying, asked for a cup of water (which restaurants are required to give you for free) and filled half of it with lemonade at the fountain, didn't buy a Califur badge and instead snuck into rooms requiring conbadges. I bought a train ticket for children (meaning under 18, and I'm 19), and I knew that no one would ask me to prove my age nor would they be able to prove it if they had. I was even planning on sleeping under one of the drawing tables, but a room opened up that my friend had already payed for.

That being said, I do think I usually use my money ethically. I support gay-friendly businesses, give leftovers and full lunches to the homeless, bike everywhere (instead of driving), and I'm a semi-vegetarian. (purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment.) I support independent artists at flea markets who don't make much money at all, and don't steal (unless you consider those listed things above stealing.) Every year I ask for donations to charities for my birthday and Christmas.

So my question is, should one never cheat the system? In this instance, I would have been stranded if I hadn't. Would it be unethical to see two movies on your computer, and then take the money you would have spent going to the theater and buying a Feed Bag (Something you can purchase at Whole Foods for $25, that feeds 100 people)? Especially since the movie industry is doing particularly well? What if I was a freegan? What if I didn't want to support something that required payment, but for some reason had to use it anyway? What if someone had no money, and for some reason couldn't get it (say they are in school)? I suppose the economy wouldn't work out nearly as well if the honor system weren't as effective.

*rolls eyes and sighs, then bows his head and clench his fist, his hands shaking*

...

I'm going to say this and if you don't pay attention, sucks for you...

THERE IS NO DIFINITIVE GOOD AND DIFINITIVE EVIL! BECAUSE THEIR IS NO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED DEFINITION OF GOOD AND EVIL YOU CANNOT SAY THERE IS A UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED GOOD AND EVIL

The dude who steals from a grocery store to feed his starving family in the alley a block over doesn't see anything wrong with stealing it considering the circumstances but the law says he was stealing so there you go, one fine example of how good and evil are not definitions or universally accepted forces, they are ideas, nothing more, they are ideas and judgements that tend to differ from person to person, like in the afformentioned example

If you're going to b***h me out cause you know what good and evil is, save it, you're not going to convince me, trust me on this one, okay? And by the way that comment you made

Quote:

purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment

Bull. It's one of the best things you can do for the enviornment, because guess what cows do...they burp and fart, ALL THE TIME, and when they burp and fart they relealse CO2 and Methane into the atmosphere speeding up Global Warming, which means I, as a meat eater am eating the problem, and you're protecting it, I'm not saying be like some crazy gun toting moron and kill for the hell of it, I'm saying that since the dawn of time man has killed to get his substanence with no righteous crusade sent after him by nature

And one final thing, plants are alive, so, you are still killing to get your food, the only diffence is you don't have to look into a scared pair of eyes or listen to it yelp and scream when you kill it

No one's better then anyone else for the choices they make and the faster we can accept that, the faster the world can become a better place

Peace to all my brother and sister furs :3  

[Garek Maxwell]

Alexander Fawxe Jace

Zella L.

purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment

Bull. It's one of the best things you can do for the enviornment, because guess what cows do...they burp and fart, ALL THE TIME, and when they burp and fart they relealse CO2 and Methane into the atmosphere speeding up Global Warming, which means I, as a meat eater am eating the problem, and you're protecting it,

....What?

Uhhh, you realize by eating them you're supporting the production of MORE of them, right? It's as simple as supply versus demand. The more people demand, the more supply will attempted to be produced. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the jist in this particular instance.)

Your argument makes no sense, because what you're doing in the end is supporting the production of more cattle so they can be made into meat. This isn't the "hunter versus prey" thing like in the wild. Humans have bypassed that to create and industry based upon increased production to meet demands on more than just one or two families.

The basic argument is broken down into this formula:
Person A does not increase demand by not buying, thus decreasing the need for supply.
Person B states that person A should buy more to decrease supplies.
Farmer A, facing higher demand, increases cattle production to meet increasing demands.
Increased production returns back to Person A's argument that supporting this system is bad.

If you applied this to other situations, you'd notice something is wrong with it as well.
Person A doesn't buy gasoline because of pollution problems.
Person B argues that buying more decreases supplies of oil.
Producer A meets increasing demands by producing more and thus causing more of the reasons given by Person A.

Note that this situation applies best in situations with renewable resources where supplies can be scaled easily with demand. Oil wasn't the best example, but it shows that burning more isn't the solution.  

[CodyDudeTm]

It's not a good thing, but if you're really tight on cash, like you can barely afford food and shelter, then I think you are allowed a get outta jail free card 3nodding  

[Rainey_angel81]

I think what you're doing is fine. They actually had an article int he newspaper a couple of months back about cheating the system. Ie: happy hour - reduced prices, how to get food for free, saying it is your birthday so you get a free dinner or half off a dinner, etc.  

[Isaol]

Rainey_angel81

I think what you're doing is fine. They actually had an article int he newspaper a couple of months back about cheating the system. Ie: happy hour - reduced prices, how to get food for free, saying it is your birthday so you get a free dinner or half off a dinner, etc.

Most of those are for dirtbags who can pay, but don't want to.  

[Selene Aries]

Anyone in here that downloads music, video or programs has no place saying anything about the moral downfalls of cheating the system. 3nodding

For those that do pay for absolutely everything they have and/or do, than kudos to you. Personally, I never pay for something I if I can get it for free, but don't usually go out of my way to rip-off business and/ or services.  

[L the strawberry lover]

Selene Aries

Anyone in here that downloads music, video or programs has no place saying anything about the moral downfalls of cheating the system. 3nodding

For those that do pay for absolutely everything they have and/or do, than kudos to you. Personally, I never pay for something I if I can get it for free, but don't usually go out of my way to rip-off business and/ or services.

Well said Selene. Logically speaking, it isn't very wise to pay for something you can just as easily get for free. I'm not saying that stealing a CD is ok, but to me, dowloading a song off Limewire is a wiser decision overall, because it's free.  

[Alex Jace]

Garek Maxwell

Alexander Fawxe Jace

Zella L.

purchasing meat is one of the WORST things you can do for animals OR the environment

Bull. It's one of the best things you can do for the enviornment, because guess what cows do...they burp and fart, ALL THE TIME, and when they burp and fart they relealse CO2 and Methane into the atmosphere speeding up Global Warming, which means I, as a meat eater am eating the problem, and you're protecting it,

....What?

Uhhh, you realize by eating them you're supporting the production of MORE of them, right? It's as simple as supply versus demand. The more people demand, the more supply will attempted to be produced. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the jist in this particular instance.)

Your argument makes no sense, because what you're doing in the end is supporting the production of more cattle so they can be made into meat. This isn't the "hunter versus prey" thing like in the wild. Humans have bypassed that to create and industry based upon increased production to meet demands on more than just one or two families.

The basic argument is broken down into this formula:
Person A does not increase demand by not buying, thus decreasing the need for supply.
Person B states that person A should buy more to decrease supplies.
Farmer A, facing higher demand, increases cattle production to meet increasing demands.
Increased production returns back to Person A's argument that supporting this system is bad.

If you applied this to other situations, you'd notice something is wrong with it as well.
Person A doesn't buy gasoline because of pollution problems.
Person B argues that buying more decreases supplies of oil.
Producer A meets increasing demands by producing more and thus causing more of the reasons given by Person A.

Note that this situation applies best in situations with renewable resources where supplies can be scaled easily with demand. Oil wasn't the best example, but it shows that burning more isn't the solution.

very well stated only that argument has been made and that idea tried and guess what? it doesn't work, boycotting the oil companies hasn't worked and neither has boycotting meats and poultry