Vampire Wiccan?

[skywalkerlover]

Question that I thought of:

Can a Vampire become a Wiccan or vise-versa?

And I mean the real life vampires (Sanguinarius and Psychic vampires), not the sparkly kind OR the movie kind.

This thread is also open for descution about the topic of "real" vampires.  

[StellaLuna SkyWind]

Not to sound completely new to everything, but where would one find a vampire? Are they just rare?  

[Loona Wynd]

To the one that I serve

Well as it is an energy deficient I dont see how that would stop them. Wicca is a priesthood and a fertility cult. I dont see how that would qualify you as a non-proper person.

I will give my all

 

[ncsweet]

As Loona said, as long as one is found to be a "proper person", and accepted for training/initiation, then I don't see why not.  

[Morgandria]

I'm going to say no - 'vampires' are never going to be proper people.

This is my opinion, mind you, but it's based in my experience:
'Sanguinary' vampires are going to get filtered out, more than likely, for either being attention-seekers, or for putting people ill at ease on any level, or...frankly, for being bat-s**t insane.

'Psy-vamps' probably have it worse. Covens filter out drama queens, doom cookies, and others of that ilk. I've been trained to deal with 'psychic vampires' by my coven, if I need to. (Although, to be fair, I was fairly well-versed in this before becoming a coven member.) My thought is - why would Wicca have training methods regarding the identification, protection against, and banishing of 'psychic vampires' if they ever thought they'd qualify as proper people?

I absolutely cannot imagine what having such an individual would do to the working energy flow of a coven's practices. It's bad enough when you encounter such individuals in public rites and open circles where you have to work around them to keep the energy moving properly - I would be hesitant to work with a group that had a 'black hole' permanently installed in their energy.

If a person kept it to themselves - as in its' their business, doesn't need to be known or to affect others, and isn't about feeding off other people's energy via attention-whoring or drama-llamas - AND that person can effectively manage energy well enough to not be detrimental to the energy flow of the group...then it's possible they may be considered a proper person. But honestly, I can't ever see that happening.

If my coven ever - EVER - accepted a self-described 'vamp', I'd probably leave.  

[GoddessAttuned]

To be honest I wouldn't know much on the subject of a vampire joining a Wiccan circle. I would think they would be like anyone who wishes to become a seekers and join a fertity and priesthood'de coven.
But then again I would think not as well, as a " vampire" would be entirely draining for the entire coven and simple damper any work.
Hmm.

 

[Loona Wynd]

To the one that I serve

I'm not sure if my traditio9n would accept them or not. Right now it seems like they do. Keeping in mind I'm tarining in a witchcraft tradition that is not Wiccan.

I will give my all

 

[kage no neko]

I think the question would be, can they control themselves? If they're constantly sucking with no control, they'd be a nuisance to any coven (imo). If they know how to control it, if they can shut it off and maybe even use what they've had absorbed during the day to add to it.. then there shouldn't be a problem.  

[Cariaith]

In my opinion, neither energy vampires, psychic vampires, or vampires of any kind for that matter are suited to become users of good energy. Even though i am NOT Wiccan, since i refuse to believe in somebody who in my opinion is nothing more then a froud and controll freak (i am sorry for those who do believe in Gerald Gardners ways) i am Ancient Pagan and do believe in some comparable principles. Vampires, by their evil or neutrally alligned nature, depending on the vampire, in my opinion cant be suited to use the magic of good. I think it would add a negative vibe, or perhaps even the negative consequences of which they get by their actions, into a blessed circle, or at an altar or alike. I think that only by deserting their vampiristic assets and beliefs, and a proper cleansing and teachings they could perhaps become in my case Ancient Pagan, or Wiccan. But even then it should still be closely monitored, since it can endanger anyone, be it a coven or a solitairy witch. However, i do think a Pagan a.o. can become a vampire, the transfer is easier, though also the consequences and burdens are harder. And they'd still have to give up what they stood for. So my final conclusion: Yes they can become one another, as long as they give up the opposite part.

PS: If anybody feels insulted in any posible way I appologize. it was not my intention to, to each their own, im just stating my view upon it.(I've had my share of Eclectic Wiccans breathing down my neck about things they considder fake or insulting >_< )  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Ancient Pagan? Care to clarify this some more for us? There were quite a few meso-pagan faiths I think and practically none surviving to present day fully intact so you're either learning incorrect history, trying to give yourself a greater sense of authority, or not fully understanding how a few words work.  

[kage no neko]

Cariaith

Vampires, by their evil or neutrally alligned nature, depending on the vampire, in my opinion cant be suited to use the magic of good.

Are we playing D&D now? Vampires have aligned natures now? So.. what if they're lawful evil? And someone could be chaotic good, would that still mean they'd be okay to do "good" magic?

Quote:

However, i do think a Pagan a.o. can become a vampire, the transfer is easier, though also the consequences and burdens are harder. And they'd still have to give up what they stood for. So my final conclusion: Yes they can become one another, as long as they give up the opposite part.

I don't think becoming a vampire is exactly a choice. I know there are some people who probably unconciously steal energy. I know how to also, but that doesn't make me a vampire.

Quote:

PS: If anybody feels insulted in any posible way I appologize. it was not my intention to, to each their own, im just stating my view upon it.(I've had my share of Eclectic Wiccans breathing down my neck about things they considder fake or insulting >_< )

I'm eclectic (though not wiccan, just a witch), and one of the first things I realized are my beliefs are my own. Not everyone will have the same beliefs, and many people may try to call my beliefs false, since they don't also agree.
It honestly depends on what it'd be, to be considered insulting. Pretty much, there will always be someone that'd consider something insulting..
____________________________________________________________

But I have one question about all this..

Quote:

Even though i am NOT Wiccan,

Quote:

they could perhaps become in my case Ancient Pagan, or Wiccan.

So.. what are you saying? Are you saying that you are or aren't Wiccan? And what would an "Ancient Pagan" be? Is there a certain path that has survived to the modern day?  

[rmcdra]

How does one "steal energy" exactly? Is it like being depressed at a joyous celebration or is it something a bit more subtle? My fiancee accuses me of "sucking the energy" when I come home after a bad day at work. Is it similar, related, or completely different?

Think of it like weather - air pressure, specifically. Air will move from high pressure to low pressure. Energy moves likewise, seeking a harmonious level.

When you're working in a group or circle, you don't want occillation, or highs and lows - you want a steady flow of energy, precisely directed.  

[skywalkerlover]

Very interesting answers to the question. Thanks. Though now im going to comment on them:

Tikiko: You don't sound new, just curious. It is quite difficult to find a real vampire considering that there are so many fake, ideotic, vampire wanna-be's, so they could be considered rare. You can never be too sure if they are a vampire or not, though there are ways of sepperating the vampire wanna-be's from the real vampires. For one, real vampires do not just mindlessly attack people and drink there blood. Two, real vampires don't necessaraly have a "craving" for blood. If one says: "I didn't draw blood at first, but I did get an overwhelming feeling" that would mean they were NOT a real vampire but a vampire wanna-be. Considering that I am presured for time over here, if you would like to know more then pm me.

Loona Wynd: Very well said.

ncsweet: I agree.

Morgandria: You can not, by any means, say that vampires are never going to be proper people. I mean come on.....not all vampires are bad, acutally more then 98% of them are good (last time I checked). Like I said to Tikiko, you got to rule out the stupid vampire wanna-be's. Plus, yes your coven may have something against psy-vampires, or vampires in general, but it doesn't mean all covens have, and I must ask......why exactly does your coven dispise vampires? Surely something must have happened to get you all rialed up about this topic and to say such things as: "If my coven ever - EVER - accepted a self-described 'vamp', I'd probably leave.". (not trying to be mean here.....)

iHecate: Hm....interesting.....

Loona Wynd: Well...thats cool. I didn't really mean to single out Wiccan, but I ment to single out all witchcraft, wiccan and pagan religions......if you get my meaning......cause I am still new to this stuff....

kage no neko: Very.....and I mean very well said.

Cariaith: So you would say every vampire has a negative vib? Also, it isn't really fair to give up the opposit part, considering it would be harder to give up one over the other.

Violet Song jat Shariff: Yes. What you said is a good question. Cariaith......please explain.

kage no neko: Nice observation kage no neko. And you are right about one thing.....being a vampire isn't exactly a choice.

((brb))  

[kage no neko]

Wicca (BTW) has it's own guidelines for what makes a proper person. I don't personally know them, but they may have something against those who willingly steal energy. To know you do it, and do absolutely nothing to control it.. Since Morgandria is an initiated BTW Wiccan, she may have a better idea of what they require in a proper person than us.

And yes, I've been talking about psy vamps, not sang vamps. I can't understand having a need nor desire for blood. Blood tastes very metallic to me, and it's gross. I can't begin to understand why anyone would have a desire besides "oh, that's cool". So until I have a better perspective, I'd rather not judge on that.  

[Morgandria]

skywalkerlover

Morgandria: You can not, by any means, say that vampires are never going to be proper people. I mean come on.....not all vampires are bad, acutally more then 98% of them are good (last time I checked). Like I said to Tikiko, you got to rule out the stupid vampire wanna-be's. Plus, yes your coven may have something against psy-vampires, or vampires in general, but it doesn't mean all covens have, and I must ask......why exactly does your coven dispise vampires? Surely something must have happened to get you all rialed up about this topic and to say such things as: "If my coven ever - EVER - accepted a self-described 'vamp', I'd probably leave.". (not trying to be mean here.....)

1) If a person considers themselves a vampire, they don't make a big deal out of it (by never mentioning it), they never cause ANY problems to a coven's energy or social dynamic, and they otherwise qualify as a proper person - then yes, maybe they may join a coven.

In which case, why the ******** does it matter? It's sort of like the tree falling in the forest with no-one around to hear. If you're a vampire, but it isn't something you want to talk about or need to reveal to others at any time...and you can perfectly function without ever bringing it up....it's really not that bad a condition or as big of a deal as the majority of self-proclaimed vampires make it out to be.

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My coven doesn't even really think about it, to be honest. We don't sit around talking about what we'd do if a vampire showed up at the door. It's sort of a no-brainer. Smart people do not show up to a coven - any coven - and go "AND I'm a vampire". That's a quick route to be shown the door. Why the hell would you introduce yourself to a group of people like that? You're either an attention seeker or nuts. I really have a difficult time seeing any reasonable, educated, experienced coven full of mature adults reacting any differently to such a declaration from a Seeker.

People aren't vampires. They're just people - good, bad, indifferent - who have a fetish, or want attention, or have chosen 'vampire subculture' as their means of socialization.

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I'm only going to address the 'psychic vampire' thing, since frankly it's the most relevant 'type' of vampire to the conversation.

Personally - IF the condition exists, which I am doubtful of - I consider 'psyvamps' no better than thieves. I cannot bring myself to trust - let alone extend "Perfect Love and Trust' someone who openly labels themself a thief. Covens work closely on all levels - you simply can't have someone in your group who disrupts the harmony, is an energetic black hole, or that people are uncomfortable with.

There is no space in my life for people who manipulate other people, for whatever reason - whether that reason is 'energy deficiency', a power trip for their ego, shits and giggles, or (possibly the worst) the fact that they just don't realize they're doing it.

'Vamping' is manipulation, of the highest order. Covens split up from people pulling that s**t. Relationships and friendships end. It's never going to be any different. Let someone who likes to 'vamp' into your group, and there will be problems as long as they're there...and the longer they're there, the worse it gets.

Live through enough social group drama, and you learn: the people who hate it, avoid it, and the people who keep finding time and time again a) are creating it or feeding off it, or b) aren't smart enough to realize when they're being used.

I don't have the inclination to let predators or parasites set up business in MY home, in MY life, in the lives of my friends and family.
They're not welcome.

I assume that the training I have had regarding 'psychic vampires' is a part of the core training. My coven has dual lineage in Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca. It stands to reason, at least in my mind, that this training is a part of these traditions for a good reason, that 'psychic vampires' are undesirable, and no coven that adheres to proper Wiccan practice would ever consider a 'psychic vampire' a proper person.

Based on that, my thoughts are that, overall, British Traditional Wicca as a whole does not tolerate 'psychic vampires', nor does it consider people who create drama or metaphysical BS for attention/'feeding' purposes proper people.

If you can provide me with clear factual evidence to the contrary of my own experience, I may consider otherwise.

What non-Wiccan covens do or don't do doesn't really matter to me.

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On a broader scale:

You're a psychic vampire, and you need to 'feed' so you aren't weak and sick? Go feed off a power socket, or sit in the sun for a while. It's got to be from a human? Bullshit. Energy's energy, whether it comes from the stars, your house's electrical system, or the core of the earth. It's physics, and as long as you're alive on this planet, the physical laws of the universe apply to you. (Not to mention it'd be much more effective to feed off a non-human source; the human nervous system doesn't generate as much juice as, say, a power grid.)

But it's real physical weakness, not some sort of mental tic, and you need blood? If you're a living breathing human, we don't digest blood properly, not to use it as a nutrient source effectively. And if you're claiming you're not human - prove it. Go get some medical testing done. Come back with some physical evidence.