Magick or Magic

[Brass Bell Doll]

I noticed the distinction in other threads between magic and magick, and the association with Thelema.

How do people feel about others who use Gematria using the spelling magick?  

[Calelith]

Magic is what everyone else uses, Magick is purely for Thelema. Just because a bunch of Neo-Pagan authors have stolen the word to make what they write about more mysterious doesn't mean everyone has the right to use it.

It's like if a bunch of authors began writing about how the Earth was cube...


...I think that's a bad example.

 

[kage no neko]

I wasn't really sure how to reply to this.
Thelema uses the K for numerology reasons, to make magic have 6 letters. Which apparently is special somehow (completely over my head).
Google tells me Gematria is something similar.. Which if you would use it for numerology reasons, I suppose it'd be considered okay, or if you could explain your reasoning for it at all? I'm completely uncertain about this though, since they seem similar to me (at a first glance, I could've probably looked harder). It wouldn't be Thelema magick, but it'd still have the numeral values..  

[ncsweet]

I've never really seen any reason to add the "k". I'd have to more or less echo what Kage said, if they had a valid reason for doing so, then I suppose it'd be up to them. Otherwise, just adding it because it looks "cool", or because "they'll think we just mean stage magic if we don't spell it differently", doesn't really wash with me.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Calelith

Magic is what everyone else uses, Magick is purely for Thelema.

Could you explain to me why you feel others who use Gematria should not spell it as magick?

Calelith

Just because a bunch of Neo-Pagan authors have stolen the word to make what they write about more mysterious doesn't mean everyone has the right to use it.

I completely agree, but I am failing to see what this has to do with the question I posed about others who have a spiritual reason to spell it differently.  

[Freyis]

If it's for the numerical value (I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it but I could be wrong) and that is how they believed it is spelled I don't see it as a big deal but they do have to keep in mind when talking over the internet if they spell magic with a k some people are going to think of them as wannabe Wiccans.

If I'm completely wrong about the numerical value thing and they're doing it just cause or whatever it seems pretty silly to me unless like mentioned in other posts they practice Thelema.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Freyis

If it's for the numerical value (I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it but I could be wrong) and that is how they believed it is spelled I don't see it as a big deal but they do have to keep in mind when talking over the internet if they spell magic with a k some people are going to think of them as wannabe Wiccans.

Why do you feel that is so?

Freyis

If I'm completely wrong about the numerical value thing and they're doing it just cause or whatever it seems pretty silly to me unless like mentioned in other posts they practice Thelema.

Gematria is a form of numerology.

Is there something about their personal inclinations that makes it more silly than any other tradition?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I think the main problem with adding a "k" for numerological reasons would just be possible confusion with Crowley's magick, which is defined in a particular way and specific to that tradition. But as lots of people add that k just to be obnoxious or to annoy me personally even though we've never met before, I'd say that ship has sailed anyway.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Sanguina Cruenta

I think the main problem with adding a "k" for numerological reasons would just be possible confusion with Crowley's magick, which is defined in a particular way and specific to that tradition

Would you feel that possible confusion on the part of those outside of Thelema and other numerological traditions would be a good reason for people to alter the practices?

Are you able to explain what about adding the K leaves you feeling annoyed?  

[Yanueh]

Brass Bell Doll

Are you able to explain what about adding the K leaves you feeling annoyed?

I for one feel that it's rather pretentious, kind of like naming your baby "Katharynne Nykole," just because "Catherine Nicole" just isn't Speshul enough.

I've never had any trouble at all working out from context whether a person was talking about stage magic or metaphysical magic.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Yanueh

I for one feel that it's rather pretentious, kind of like naming your baby "Katharynne Nykole," just because "Catherine Nicole" just isn't Speshul enough.

Could you perhaps elaborate on why their choices are assumed to be pretentious?

Is there something you feel is wrong with choosing to make a name different and honor it's specialness?

Yanueh

I've never had any trouble at all working out from context whether a person was talking about stage magic or metaphysical magic.

Neither have I.

Upon thinking about it further, I'm not sure that is true for everyone though.  

[Yanueh]

Brass Bell Doll

Is there something you feel is wrong with choosing to make a name different and honor it's specialness?

It's incredibly irritating going through life with 99% of the people you meet being unable to spell your name correctly or getting cards from relatives with your name spelled wrong. Plus, it can also be a symptom that the parents have Precious Snowflake Syndrome.

Yanueh

Upon thinking about it further, I'm not sure that is true for everyone though.

Maybe, but I tend to think that anyone who can't figure it out for themselves probably really isn't bright enough to ought to study it in the first place. razz  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Yanueh

It's incredibly irritating going through life with 99% of the people you meet being unable to spell your name correctly or getting cards from relatives with your name spelled wrong.

I can understand why that would be irritating, but it could also show a need to develop a deeper connection with the people in our lives.

Yanueh

Plus, it can also be a symptom that the parents have Precious Snowflake Syndrome.

I'm unfamiliar with this syndrome. Could you explain it to me or maybe link me to more information?

Yanueh

Maybe, but I tend to think that anyone who can't figure it out for themselves probably really isn't bright enough to ought to study it in the first place. razz

I feel it is important to allow people to study what they are called to, and that my personal opinions about the details aren't always as important as their exploration and development. I feel that at times different personality types will seek to place what is important to them above what is important to others. In my life I have had to learn that I am very detail oriented. I often view the world as a clock, and I strive to know and understand where each gear is and how it moves the sprocket next to it. Part of my life's lesson is understanding and accepting that some don't feel that the details are as important as the clock itself, as the time it tells or as the memory of opening the present from their favorite aunt on their birthday.

In the past I have felt these differences as a detriment in other's personalities, and I struggle to affirm their value. It's a process, but an important one to me, so it hurts when I see other's "brightness" being called into question for not agreeing with someone else. It hurts me even more when I catch myself doing it.  

[Yanueh]

Brass Bell Doll

I can understand why that would be irritating, but it could also show a need to develop a deeper connection with the people in our lives.

I really don't expect random people I meet to develop a "deeper connection" with me. I would, however, like them to be able to spell my name without me spelling it out for them each and every time.

Quote:

I'm unfamiliar with this syndrome. Could you explain it to me or maybe link me to more information?

It's a slang term for self-absorbed parents who think their child is uber-special by virtue of being their own crotchfruit. They're the parents who whine and complain when their child isn't pampered and babied through life by everyone else.

Quote:

I feel it is important to allow people to study what they are called to, and that my personal opinions about the details aren't always as important as their exploration and development. I feel that at times different personality types will seek to place what is important to them above what is important to others. In my life I have had to learn that I am very detail oriented. I often view the world as a clock, and I strive to know and understand where each gear is and how it moves the sprocket next to it. Part of my life's lesson is understanding and accepting that some don't feel that the details are as important as the clock itself, as the time it tells or as the memory of opening the present from their favorite aunt on their birthday.

In the past I have felt these differences as a detriment in other's personalities, and I struggle to affirm their value. It's a process, but an important one to me, so it hurts when I see other's "brightness" being called into question for not agreeing with someone else. It hurts me even more when I catch myself doing it.

My point is that if your comprehension is so poor you can't tell whether you're reading about stage magic or metaphysical magic from the context the word is in, you're probably not going to have the comprehension to get your head around anything you read. Have you ever met anyone who couldn't actually tell whether you were talking about the fruit or the computer? Have you ever met anyone who couldn't actually tell whether you were talking about money or a soon-to-be loaf?

Plus, as far as I know, a newbie wouldn't know the difference between magic/magick until it was explained to them, which would render the whole point moot to begin with. You might as well explain what you call "magic" and leave it at that.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Yanueh

I really don't expect random people I meet to develop a "deeper connection" with me.

Nor do I. I apologize for the confusion. I felt you were speaking of people who were part of your life when you mentioned family members in your example.

Yanueh

I would, however, like them to be able to spell my name without me spelling it out for them each and every time.

As a matter of courtesy and for the sake of accuracy in my line of work, we always ask for the spelling.

Yanueh

It's a slang term for self-absorbed parents who think their child is uber-special by virtue of being their own crotchfruit. They're the parents who whine and complain when their child isn't pampered and babied through life by everyone else.

I believe I understand the slang, but I do not feel there is a direct correlation to uncommon spellings. I feel that to make that statement there would need to be much more information provided about the attitudes and treatment of people- which would have it fall outside the scope of this topic.

When we return to the topic at hand, if a person chooses to have a special spelling for a term or a personal name, why is that an annoyance?

If it takes a moment to ensure the correct spelling, is that moment devalued? If it irritates us that we cannot make assumptions about how things are spelled for the sake of saving time, how much time are we saving and do we apply the value of that time to other parts of our lives? Or is it a reflection upon our personal values- and if so, is there something we gain by holding our opinions and values above others?

In my life I found myself frustrated by bad drivers who wasted my time by going slow in the fast lane until my friend and I departed at the same time from the spa to meet at her place. I drove the speed limit and moved around other cars- but when I reached her home, I ended up waiting about thirty seconds. The value of that time was not increased for the stress of driving and I have wasted thirty seconds in more places than I can count, so the extra thirty seconds on the highway really was of no benefit to me.

I have an uncommonly spelled name myself. It's spelling doesn't make me special, but in those moments that I can connect with people while discussing it, I feel more present. I feel being present is special.

Yanueh

My point is that if your comprehension is so poor you can't tell whether you're reading about stage magic or metaphysical magic from the context the word is in, you're probably not going to have the comprehension to get your head around anything you read.

I don't feel this is the case. I feel that the worlds of illusions and of mysticism are blended, and that the line between fantasy and fact in relationship to the truth of our world is not as black and white as I often wish it were.

I feel a far more realistic example would be of someone confusing the magic of a roleplaying game with a spiritual practice. Mayhaps one of the great trials for us is understanding that fiction can hold more profound truths than a dozen sacred texts, Chaos Magicians seem to have this down pat.

I don't feel we can comment upon the quality of a person's comprehension simply because they are unable to make a distinction that you make easily because our comprehension is so personal that without a frame of reference that is common between the two people, there's no set scale for success.

Yanueh

Plus, as far as I know, a newbie wouldn't know the difference between magic/magick until it was explained to them, which would render the whole point moot to begin with. You might as well explain what you call "magic" and leave it at that.

I do not feel this is the case either, since it relies on there being a classification system common to everyone in the discussion.