The role of the Mind in magic

[Loona Wynd]

To the one that I serve

What role do you think the mind plays in magic?

I will give my all

 

[Brass Bell Doll]

I feel the mind plays no more and no less a role than it does in any other activity. It allows energy to be given direction, and like any skill, the execution is a culmination of forethought, practice and action.

I do not feel magic is a supernatural force, but instead a natural one if that makes sense.  

[ncsweet]

In my personal practice, the mind probably plays a bit more of a significant role, but it has to do with the way I define magic, more so than anything else.  

[oOGarrettOo]

I have to agree with Sweet. From what I've experienced, magic has been mind over matter so to speak. The concentration and mental direction tend to do more than ritual and written/spoken word and the like. In my experience anyway.  

[doistu]

The mind has everything to do with it.
When using magic it does anyway. The mind is the vessel/channel for magic.
Otherwise, there's no control. It would be like a spring of water no one knows about  

[Brass Bell Doll]

I feel it is worth pointing out that there are some forms of magic where the mind offers no control at all, Reiki being one of the most common examples, but some forms of sympathetic magic being others. The control is present in the practice of specific acts and not in the mental focus or guidance of the person.  

[Amara Verdandi]

Want to keep earning gold for your XP in Ocean Party?

I believe that the mind is only useful in magic when used to its potential. think about it. According to science, people only use about 4% of our brains. My theory, is that if we train our self to use more than we can do things most wouldn't think of. Even telekinesis, or telepathy, who knows what powers the mind has. Just look at how it works with our dreams.

I don't know about you guys, but things happen in my dreams that make me feel so different the next day. I killed myself last night because of the shadow hands of a ghost, then pleaded with my dead boyfriend to die a second time so we would remain as ghosts together, as opposed to him going to to the over world or underworld. I could never even begin to comprehend something like that in my conscious mind.

Control to me means limitations, I think the concious mind is severely limiting, and that we must enter a new state of consciousness in order to unlock our highest magical potential.

Then click here!

 

[Brass Bell Doll]

Amara Verdandi

Want to keep earning gold for your XP in Ocean Party?

I believe that the mind is only useful in magic when used to its potential. think about it. According to science, people only use about 4% of our brains. My theory, is that if we train our self to use more than we can do things most wouldn't think of. Even telekinesis, or telepathy, who knows what powers the mind has. Just look at how it works with our dreams.

Then click here!

I feel there is a misunderstanding of the neurology involved in Brain Activity.

While it is true that we have only a limited portion of our brain firing at a single time, it is important to note that this is healthy.

I feel it is important to note that both PET scans and fMRI show that the majority of our brain is active. It is much like how the rest of our bodies work. Portions are active while other portions are at rest.

My understanding is that over stimulation of the brain can actually lead to seizures.  

[too2sweet]

Brass Bell Doll

Reiki being one of the most common examples

That's not completely true though, you are still a channel for the energy, and need the ability to visualize (at least on some level), and (especially in Distance Reiki), mental focus is a necessary component.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Brass Bell Doll

I feel it is worth pointing out that there are some forms of magic where the mind offers no control at all, Reiki being one of the most common examples, but some forms of sympathetic magic being others. The control is present in the practice of specific acts and not in the mental focus or guidance of the person.

What forms of sympathetic magic involve nothing from the mind? neutral

I know of nothing that can be defined as "magic" in which the mind has no role... unless you're going with that rather charming definition "magic is the Mystery in motion", which describes something also called "magic" but which is rather different than "that thing we use wot does stuff".  

[oOGarrettOo]

too2sweet

Brass Bell Doll

Reiki being one of the most common examples

That's not completely true though, you are still a channel for the energy, and need the ability to visualize (at least on some level), and (especially in Distance Reiki), mental focus is a necessary component.

This. Distance reiki requires a great deal of focus and intent. You have to be able to visualize where the person is, have a picture of them and keep that mental image so that you can sync into their energy and pinpoint where certain problems might be, and then direct the energies to these problems. It requires a lot more thought and a lot less pushing and hand waving. I know a lot of distance healers that sit quietly with their eyes closed and just don't move at all.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

too2sweet

That's not completely true though, you are still a channel for the energy, and need the ability to visualize (at least on some level), and (especially in Distance Reiki), mental focus is a necessary component.

I am afraid I must disagree. A great deal of the training at the first and second attunement within my tradition deals very directly with the nature of Reiki and how visualization and mental focus is completely unnecessary.

Is it possible that this is a difference in tradition? I feel that a number of Reiki Masters have added their own personal touches to their lines that involve visualization and other practices that are not part of Reiki itself.

Robert Levy, William Lee Rand, Christopher Penczak, Jim PathFinder Ewing and others are some of the examples my Master used when explaining the difference between Reiki at its inception and the modern traditions that blend Masters religious views with Reiki.

Sanguina Cruenta

What forms of sympathetic magic involve nothing from the mind? neutral

I know of nothing that can be defined as "magic" in which the mind has no role... unless you're going with that rather charming definition "magic is the Mystery in motion", which describes something also called "magic" but which is rather different than "that thing we use wot does stuff".

I feel there are some forms of sympathetic magic that involve charm resonance that would fit with many common definitions of magic that do not rely on the mind at all, but instead merely being in the presence of an object.

oOGarrettOo

This. Distance reiki requires a great deal of focus and intent. You have to be able to visualize where the person is, have a picture of them and keep that mental image so that you can sync into their energy and pinpoint where certain problems might be, and then direct the energies to these problems. It requires a lot more thought and a lot less pushing and hand waving. I know a lot of distance healers that sit quietly with their eyes closed and just don't move at all.

I feel these understandings are fundamentally opposed to the nature of Reiki.

One of the examples my Master used to demonstrate this was that Reiki has cases in which you should not use it. If Reiki was driven by intent and visualization, there would be no such cases because it would be shaped by the mind.

One of the benefits of Reiki over some other forms of energy healing is that it needs no mental guidance or focus to perform. Another example of this is the ability to attune inanimate objects that do not visualize or have any need to sync their energy.

I feel that when we look at the very word Reiki, we can see why this is, as universal energy, it has a nature. If people wish to include visualization, I see no harm in it. If people wish to apply direction, I see no harm in it. I merely feel that it is not a part of Reiki, but instead is a comment made by certain teachers about their own traditions in much the same way that many Saints, Prophets and Ascended Masters have made commentary on a greater spiritual truth, adding things that comfort those who practice.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Brass Bell Doll

I feel think there are some forms of sympathetic magic that involve charm resonance that would fit with many common definitions of magic that do not rely on the mind at all, but instead merely being in the presence of an object.

And what are these common definitions of magic, please? Can you give examples of these charms, how they do not involve the mind and how they can be defined as magic?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Sanguina Cruenta

Brass Bell Doll

I feel think there are some forms of sympathetic magic that involve charm resonance that would fit with many common definitions of magic that do not rely on the mind at all, but instead merely being in the presence of an object.

And what are these common definitions of magic, please? Can you give examples of these charms, how they do not involve the mind and how they can be defined as magic?

I ask again, please do not change my word choice as I feel it is disrespectful. I feel that my earlier request should have been honored as well, thus it is compounding the slight to continue to alter my words and disregard my meaning and intention.

If you wish to discuss my word selection I would be happy to do so in private.

The common definitions of magic I am speaking of include that which is found in the core texts of Thelema, most of the pagan literature I have read, the popular definition found in dictionaries and the anthroplogical definitions of people such as Bronisław Malinowski and Edward Burnett Tylor.

I feel the anthropological definitions comment on the social function of magic in a society and in doing so likely do no address magic as most here understand it.

Most of the neo-pagan texts I have been exposed to haven't bothered to define magic. I feel this is likely because the target audience is already familiar with what magic is. Those that have defined it have commonly paraphrased Thelema's texts, or commented upon the supernatural in conjunction with creating change.

I believe I have read two works of Crowley wherein her outlined an actual definition for Magick, to paraphrase, it is the art and science of creating change in accordance with one's Will.

I feel it is important to note that Will is not the same as the mind's intents or desires but instead is a grander purpose existing within the sphere of Pluto.

Simply having a charm in one's presence would create an effect, and while owning an article may be a function of one's Will, there need not be any action on the part of the mind itself.  

[Sashaajnin]

the mind plays a huge part in magic, after all, if someone does not believe in magic, it is often harder for them to see anything that can not be explained, then someone who does believe. In alot of cases, the mind sees what the mind wants to see.