"Scout Rifle"?

[ArmasTermin]

I asked this on /k/, but they're all idiots too much into 4chan bullshit and memes and mentally jacking each other off to actually make any coherent thoughts, so I came here where coherent thoughts actually pop up.

I'd wanted a bolt-action rifle before (still do) but .308 would be a waste considering I wouldn't find any place in Louisiana to shoot to 1000 yards, or even 500. So a 30-30 levergun seemed like the perfect gun, but I still like the idea of bolt-actions, and was looking over the new Savage Edge (now called the "Axis") that happens to come in .223. Well .223 is a flat-shooting mid-range cartridge that's really cheap to shoot and can easily go to the outer limits of range I'd find here and then some without being wasteful. And with heavier bullets I could probably (maybe?) take down medium sized game if I were to ever want to do that. The Axis is also pretty darn cheap, and looks cool despite having no wood on it. There's a complaint that the stock can't be changed because of its relation to the moving parts, but I don't really know if I care about that. So:

Lever-gun:
Bigger magazine capacity
More damage (within a somewhat short range)
Has wood on it
Faster follow-up shots

Bolt-gun:
Cheaper and cheaper to shoot
Longer effective range
More accurate

Thoughts?  

[Fresnel]

The Savage has a 1-in-9 twist. The 1x9 won't stabilize an 80gr. round, but it's hard to find those commercially pre-loaded anyway. It WILL stabilize a 77gr. round, and I would trust a well-placed 77gr. HPBT to take out a medium-sized white tail deer. On the flip side, it spins slow enough to not detonate a 45-gr. varmint HP. And that same 77, with the 22" barrel, will likely break the 800m mark accurately and efficiently.

If it were me, I'd save up a couple hundred more and go for the Model 25. I've heard the Savage accutrigger is absolutely brilliant. But it IS almost twice the price, so it's your call.

Comparing the Savage to the Marlin 336, I notice the Marlin has only a single extra round on the Savage. The Marlin also has shitty notch-and-post sights, but the Savage's sightless barrel doesn't really offer any competition there. Dunno if the 336C comes drilled and tapped for a scope, though, you might have to pay extra for that at the gunsmith's.

Personally, it looks to me like the best of both worlds is an SMLE, and the No. 4 is actually superior in many ways... it's got a faster action than either, a larger magazine, better sights, a more powerful (albeit a bit more expensive) round, it's solid wood and steel, parts are plentiful and cheap as s**t...  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

buy a mil surp 03 if you want a bolt. idk neutral

personally I would go for a Para FAL or an M1A in scout or socom length



you know you can cheaply and easily scout mount a mosin right?  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

Recon_Ninja_985

buy a mil surp 03 if you want a bolt. idk neutral

personally I would go for a Para FAL or an M1A in scout or socom length



you know you can cheaply and easily scout mount a mosin right?

I think shooting mid range with .308 is a waste so why not downgrade to a .223 AR?  

[ArmasTermin]

Fresnel: My original choice was a Marlin Xs7, that has a similar trigger style to the one you suggested. I'm not sure if it's available in .223 since their site won't load and forum posting popping up are only of people asking many months ago if it would be in .223 any time soon. But I'm still open to the ideas of more expensive models. The Marlin is a 5+1, and I think the Savage is 4+1, but would probably be harder to reload quickly unless I got more magazine, and I don't even know if those would be sold separately. The Marlin doesn't come pre-drilled and tapped, so yeah, I'd have to get that done. Dunno about the SMLE. I've never thought about it, and was looking more into Wal Mart calibers.

EDIT: I'm wrong. The 336 has a 6+1 capacity and does come pre-drilled and tapped. But I still can't come up with a clear answer to which one the 336C is and which the 336W is. One supposedly has a nicer finish and wood for $100 more and that's not really necessary.

Recon: I do love FALs, but they're somewhat expensive and I would go through .308 with them pretty fast. I don't want to scope my nugget because that would be insulting to it. All the M1As I'm seeing run over a thousand dollars, some over three. No thanks.

Valkyrie: I don't really like ARs that much, really.  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

ArmasTermin

Fresnel: My original choice was a Marlin Xs7, that has a similar trigger style to the one you suggested. I'm not sure if it's available in .223 since their site won't load and forum posting popping up are only of people asking many months ago if it would be in .223 any time soon. But I'm still open to the ideas of more expensive models. The Marlin is a 5+1, and I think the Savage is 4+1, but would probably be harder to reload quickly unless I got more magazine, and I don't even know if those would be sold separately. The Marlin doesn't come pre-drilled and tapped, so yeah, I'd have to get that done. Dunno about the SMLE. I've never thought about it, and was looking more into Wal Mart calibers.

EDIT: I'm wrong. The 336 has a 6+1 capacity and does come pre-drilled and tapped. But I still can't come up with a clear answer to which one the 336C is and which the 336W is. One supposedly has a nicer finish and wood for $100 more and that's not really necessary.

Recon: I do love FALs, but they're somewhat expensive and I would go through .308 with them pretty fast. I don't want to scope my nugget because that would be insulting to it. All the M1As I'm seeing run over a thousand dollars, some over three. No thanks.

Valkyrie: I don't really like ARs that much, really.

If you want cheap buy an SMLE just read up the no nos before buying that or a used Mini 14.  

[ArmasTermin]

Valkyrie Hatter

ArmasTermin

Fresnel: My original choice was a Marlin Xs7, that has a similar trigger style to the one you suggested. I'm not sure if it's available in .223 since their site won't load and forum posting popping up are only of people asking many months ago if it would be in .223 any time soon. But I'm still open to the ideas of more expensive models. The Marlin is a 5+1, and I think the Savage is 4+1, but would probably be harder to reload quickly unless I got more magazine, and I don't even know if those would be sold separately. The Marlin doesn't come pre-drilled and tapped, so yeah, I'd have to get that done. Dunno about the SMLE. I've never thought about it, and was looking more into Wal Mart calibers.

EDIT: I'm wrong. The 336 has a 6+1 capacity and does come pre-drilled and tapped. But I still can't come up with a clear answer to which one the 336C is and which the 336W is. One supposedly has a nicer finish and wood for $100 more and that's not really necessary.

Recon: I do love FALs, but they're somewhat expensive and I would go through .308 with them pretty fast. I don't want to scope my nugget because that would be insulting to it. All the M1As I'm seeing run over a thousand dollars, some over three. No thanks.

Valkyrie: I don't really like ARs that much, really.

If you want cheap buy an SMLE just read up the no nos before buying that or a used Mini 14.

A used Mini-14 would probably be more than a new 336 or any of the bolt rifles I'm looking at, and their reputation for accuracy is... well less than good. And I don't really want an SMLE.  

[Floyd]

I used to own a Marlin 336. It was scope mount ready from the factory.

What bothered me was the heavier than expected recoil from the .30-30 round. Not an evil kick, but it was not something I enjoyed shooting more than 5 times a day.

If you could find a Marlin in .357 magnum (and I know some of their lever guns were chambered for that round), see if you could try one out.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin1894.htm  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

if you dont want to insult your nugget, buy a new nugget or a beater one, scout that one and then see how you feel about it.

one nugget to keep in original condition, another to scout

ARs are awesome, try one. it took me a while of exposure to them before I could trust them  

[Fresnel]

ArmasTermin

Fresnel: My original choice was a Marlin Xs7, that has a similar trigger style to the one you suggested. I'm not sure if it's available in .223 since their site won't load and forum posting popping up are only of people asking many months ago if it would be in .223 any time soon. But I'm still open to the ideas of more expensive models. The Marlin is a 5+1, and I think the Savage is 4+1, but would probably be harder to reload quickly unless I got more magazine, and I don't even know if those would be sold separately. The Marlin doesn't come pre-drilled and tapped, so yeah, I'd have to get that done. Dunno about the SMLE. I've never thought about it, and was looking more into Wal Mart calibers.

EDIT: I'm wrong. The 336 has a 6+1 capacity and does come pre-drilled and tapped. But I still can't come up with a clear answer to which one the 336C is and which the 336W is. One supposedly has a nicer finish and wood for $100 more and that's not really necessary.

Recon: I do love FALs, but they're somewhat expensive and I would go through .308 with them pretty fast. I don't want to scope my nugget because that would be insulting to it. All the M1As I'm seeing run over a thousand dollars, some over three. No thanks.

Valkyrie: I don't really like ARs that much, really.

The Xs7 comes in 7mm-08, .243, and .308, according to their website, so no .223 yet.

They're a bit more difficult to find, but post-1960ish, Ishapore Arsenal reworked their production lines to make the Mk. III* in .308, labeling it the 2A, and around the same time, the UK reworked the Mk. 4, calling it the L8. On the other hand, Special Interest Arms is selling re-worked No. 4s in 7.62x39, and taking AK magazines, for $500. I've got no idea how accurate that would be, but it sounds like a solid competitor. Or if you're willing to wait a few years, like I plan to, Australian International Arms is selling their No. 4 Mk. 4, though it hasn't hit the US yet. Rumor has it it's because some of the parts are manufactured in Vietnam or something like that... trade embargo bullshit.

...But that's all .308, except the x39. It's tough to find an inexpensive bolt gun in .223. Remington makes most of their 700's in .223, though, but they're all over $600 MSRP.

Now you've made me want my own frankengun, but it involves the heresy of crippling an AR to become a straight-pull bolt. xd  

[ArmasTermin]

Eh, I just don't really want an SMLE that much.

The only kind of scope I'd want on a Nugget would be the original Nugget scope. And I'd have to make sure I got a pretty darn accurate one to start with. Even so, the heavy weight (I'm not putting a plastic stock on one: don't even suggest it) and length, stiff action, corrosive ammo... It's just not what I have in mind of what I want this gun to be.

I'm not worried about 30-30 recoil. It would be less than 12-gauge out of my pump, which I can handle, so it'd be fine. If it's too much of an issue I'll just buy a recoil pad.

I don't necessarily dislike ARs, just that I don't think how I shoot would get as much out of an AR as other people, considering price and maintenance. I'd rather have an AK variant. I just like them more.

My next planned gun is a Stoeger 12-gauge coach gun, mostly because I think they're neat and partially because the fore-end on my Mossy 500 still sticks, even after I sandpapered the inside of the wings to where they have enough clearance on the receiver. It's the inside, too, where the tube goes inside the fore-end. So I'm going to take it back to the gunsmith and have him put the old one back on. It won't match the polymer stock, but I'd much rather a working gun. The most practical next gun to get would probably be an AK variant, since I have a manual-action rifle and a shotgun. But I still really like the coach gun.

But I think I'm back to the Marlin as far as this "scout rifle" thing goes. I could extend the range with the Leverevolution ammo, and it would have more punch at Louisiana range than .223.  

[Fresnel]

ArmasTermin

Eh, I just don't really want an SMLE that much.

The only kind of scope I'd want on a Nugget would be the original Nugget scope. And I'd have to make sure I got a pretty darn accurate one to start with. Even so, the heavy weight (I'm not putting a plastic stock on one: don't even suggest it) and length, stiff action, corrosive ammo... It's just not what I have in mind of what I want this gun to be.

I'm not worried about 30-30 recoil. It would be less than 12-gauge out of my pump, which I can handle, so it'd be fine. If it's too much of an issue I'll just buy a recoil pad.

I don't necessarily dislike ARs, just that I don't think how I shoot would get as much out of an AR as other people, considering price and maintenance. I'd rather have an AK variant. I just like them more.

My next planned gun is a Stoeger 12-gauge coach gun, mostly because I think they're neat and partially because the fore-end on my Mossy 500 still sticks, even after I sandpapered the inside of the wings to where they have enough clearance on the receiver. It's the inside, too, where the tube goes inside the fore-end. So I'm going to take it back to the gunsmith and have him put the old one back on. It won't match the polymer stock, but I'd much rather a working gun. The most practical next gun to get would probably be an AK variant, since I have a manual-action rifle and a shotgun. But I still really like the coach gun.

But I think I'm back to the Marlin as far as this "scout rifle" thing goes. I could extend the range with the Leverevolution ammo, and it would have more punch at Louisiana range than .223.

Well, the only criticism I have against the lever actions are, according to Uryu, the lever can hurt the back of your hand after a bit. Personally, I've always kind of wanted the 1895SBL in .357, because of the enlarged lever, the XS sights, and the fact that .357 through a long gun has always intrigued me.  

[ArmasTermin]

I'm sure the lever hitting peoples' hands wasn't an issue for the people that have been shooting these things over and over and over throughout many, many years, or the ones doing so today. He's probably not doing something right, no offense. If it's a problem I'll tie on one of those leather thingies I see on those 1887 Winchester replicas.

What I don't like about .357 in a lever-action is you're basically going to do with it what you'd do with a .22, right? So it's just a high-cost plinker. If I'm getting a rifle I want it in a rifle caliber.  

[Fresnel]

ArmasTermin

I'm sure the lever hitting peoples' hands wasn't an issue for the people that have been shooting these things over and over and over throughout many, many years, or the ones doing so today. He's probably not doing something right, no offense. If it's a problem I'll tie on one of those leather thingies I see on those 1887 Winchester replicas.

What I don't like about .357 in a lever-action is you're basically going to do with it what you'd do with a .22, right? So it's just a high-cost plinker. If I'm getting a rifle I want it in a rifle caliber.

The problem with leather wrapping is that leather is tanned in acid, and during its life tends to leech those acids out. And we all know what acids do to metals. They require special attention and care. I'm sure there's a synthetic alternative... maybe naugahyde? Koskin?

Hey, ALL my guns are plinkers. xd It's just that .38 is cheaper than .300WM.  

[Buki_Actual]

My friend just got a 357mag revolver rifle.