So, I held an AR-15 tonight.

[Private Sanders]

To tell the truth, I didn't like it at all. It felt heavy, clumsy, and uncomfortable, even when my war veteran stepfather showed me the correct way to hold it. I don't know if this is just because it was the first time I've held a firearm that I can remember or if I just don't like the way rifles feel. Is it natural to feel uncomfortable the first time holding a gun? In case this is relevant, it had a foregrip attached.

No, I did not fire the weapon. There was no ammunition.  

[Fresnel]

It takes a bit to get comfortable with a long gun. There's never any good place to put your off-hand. Vertical grips help, but they're still not great. And it's a matter of preference as to how far back or forward they're placed.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

first time holding a rifle?

AR15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

you'll find that the weight plus the extra length is alot harder on the arms.

built up my arm strength when I was younger shooting nothing but an old gewehr 88 commission rifle. was the longest bolt action gun i've ever seen, and a b***h to shoot while standing.

recon's advice: find something way heavier like a 2x4, hold it regularly as if it were a rifle for a few weeks, and then holding a rifle will be a breeze

or you can just hold any 8 pound object out in front of you with your arms extended as an exercise.  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.

idk, I used an m16a2 for a while. afaik those are HBAR as well.

still not as bad as most bolt actions i've felt. still relatively easy to hold up in a shooting stance  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.

idk, I used an m16a2 for a while. afaik those are HBAR as well.

still not as bad as most bolt actions i've felt. still relatively easy to hold up in a shooting stance

Nah, the A2 has a standard government barrel. The M4s have a slightly lighter contoured barrel, but mine is a match heavy barrel. See the picture at this link for comparison.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.

idk, I used an m16a2 for a while. afaik those are HBAR as well.

still not as bad as most bolt actions i've felt. still relatively easy to hold up in a shooting stance

Nah, the A2 has a standard government barrel. The M4s have a slightly lighter contoured barrel, but mine is a match heavy barrel. See the picture at this link for comparison.

yeah, definitely remember the a2 barrel being about that size. but holy f*** I would have never imagined HBAR barrels were that damn thick.  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.

idk, I used an m16a2 for a while. afaik those are HBAR as well.

still not as bad as most bolt actions i've felt. still relatively easy to hold up in a shooting stance

Nah, the A2 has a standard government barrel. The M4s have a slightly lighter contoured barrel, but mine is a match heavy barrel. See the picture at this link for comparison.

yeah, definitely remember the a2 barrel being about that size. but holy f*** I would have never imagined HBAR barrels were that damn thick.

It's three additional pounds of steel. The balance point of my rifle is between the delta ring and upper receiver. gonk  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

R15's are among the lighter end of rifles. very easy to keep it held up without fatigue.

wait til you get a hold of a full length M1a. or an enfield or gewehr 88.

On that note, maybe it was an HBAR. Because my SMLE is a bit easier to handle than my AR, and it would crush it if it had a pistol grip.

idk, I used an m16a2 for a while. afaik those are HBAR as well.

still not as bad as most bolt actions i've felt. still relatively easy to hold up in a shooting stance

Nah, the A2 has a standard government barrel. The M4s have a slightly lighter contoured barrel, but mine is a match heavy barrel. See the picture at this link for comparison.

yeah, definitely remember the a2 barrel being about that size. but holy f*** I would have never imagined HBAR barrels were that damn thick.

It's three additional pounds of steel. The balance point of my rifle is between the delta ring and upper receiver. gonk

dont you mean between the delta ring and the front sight post? xd

with a barrel that heavy I could believe that  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

I've held 3 different ARs and all of them felt oddly balanced. (Which they actually are most of the weight is in the upper reciever). I liked the balance of the M1A and a semi auto AK better than the ARs.

The Colt AR I held as a little more balanced since it had a full stock but it didn't feel quite as natural as the AK did.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Valkyrie Hatter

I've held 3 different ARs and all of them felt oddly balanced. (Which they actually are most of the weight is in the upper reciever). I liked the balance of the M1A and a semi auto AK better than the ARs.

The Colt AR I held as a little more balanced since it had a full stock but it didn't feel quite as natural as the AK did.

the other way around for me.

my AK's were significantly more front heavy than my AR
neither of them felt as balanced and comfortable as my AR either

I came to that conclusion a long time ago, and every time I would handle them I would always notice the difference

maybe it's more of our personal preference/arm length that differs. I know a lot of people who prefer the warsaw length stock of the AK because they have shorter arms which makes it feel a lot more comfortable for them, idk.

the rifles are still my top 2 favorites so I dont think im going to be very biased about the issue.  

[King 0wl]

don't worry, it's not your fault.

the ar-15 is just a shitty rifle.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

don't worry, it's not your fault.

the ar-15 is just a shitty rifle.

which is opinion based....


people who actually use them and it's record prove otherwise.  

[King 0wl]

Recon_Ninja_985

n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

don't worry, it's not your fault.

the ar-15 is just a shitty rifle.

which is opinion based....


people who actually use them and it's record prove otherwise.

not opinion, fact.

awkward, fragile, inaccurate, unbalanced... the 'people' who use them outside of the country that derives massive funding from its use are rarely considered effective fighting forces, and those that do have a decent record are usually still tied up with the military industrial complex anyway.  

[Fresnel]

n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

Recon_Ninja_985

n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

don't worry, it's not your fault.

the ar-15 is just a shitty rifle.

which is opinion based....


people who actually use them and it's record prove otherwise.

not opinion, fact.

awkward, fragile, inaccurate, unbalanced... the 'people' who use them outside of the country that derives massive funding from its use are rarely considered effective fighting forces, and those that do have a decent record are usually still tied up with the military industrial complex anyway.

I'm getting really damn sick of the "you only like it because you're American" line of bullshit. There's plenty of American weapons I hate, and several of them were frontline military weapons in their day. That said, the AR-15 gets a severely bum rap. They're accurate as ********. No mainline infantry weapon is more accurate than an M16. Every competition shooter worth his salt is shooting an AR-15 to win, an antique gun for the fun of it, or a $3000 custom bolt-action job because he's a sadistic ******** who loves the kind of competition that comes from being in the match rifle class. By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

They're balanced quite well, if you get one with a reasonable, gov't-profile barrel. Mine's a match HBAR, it's a full three pounds heavier than the standard, and it's actually not bad for competition-style shooting, but it's s**t for fast target switching and run-and-gun like you'd find in combat or a 3-gun match.

It's not as fragile as most people think. I've been negligent with mine, not cleaning it for months on end and firing hundreds of rounds every week. I've never had a jam that wasn't the fault of a bad hand-load or my $10 magazines. Hell, I can't even remember the last time I cleaned it, and my last few hundred rounds have all been Wolf, and Wolf is notoriously dirty. Aside from a funny smell and unusually heavy recoil, there's been no change in operation. My gun will gobble any bullet you care to feed it (within weight restrictions for a 1:7 barrel) and not think twice about it.

Awkward is most certainly an opinion. I find them less awkward than most other rifles, and I've never handled one that felt notably better. I find all long guns to be inherently slightly awkward in that they need two hands, and I don't have a very strong support hand, but the AR is no worse than any other. Some people find it quite comfortable, others not so much. I'm just closer to the first group than the second. The buttstock is fantastic, however, as is the pistol grip. They both revolutionized the industry. All the controls are right where you need them, except the bolt release, but the workaround for that is to just slap the entire side of the receiver when you need it, and that works just fine. It's not ambidextrous standard, but it was designed fifty years ago, in the days of "7% of the market share? ******** 'em." To be honest, I have no idea what you're complaining about.