Thailand wants to ban tourists from getting Buddha tattoos

[too2sweet]

Thought this was an interesting story, and somewhat perfect for illustrating cultural misappropriation...

Quote:

Tourists visiting Thailand should be barred from getting culturally insensitive Buddhist tattoos, the culture ministry says.

Niphit Intharasombat, the culture minister, said residents have complained that tattoo parlours are etching sacred images of Buddha and other religious images on to the skin of non-Buddhist visitors.

"Foreigners see these tattoos as fashion," Niphit said on the ministry's website.

They do not think of respecting religion, or they may not be aware that these tattoos can be offensive, he added.

Thailand is mostly Buddhist, and Buddha statues and images are considered sacred objects of worship.

Niphit said the culture ministry had asked Thai tattoo parlours to halt the activity.

According to the official news agency, NNT, he also asked provincial governors to "inspect tattoo studios and seek their co-operation".

NNT also claimed Niphit wants a new law banning the practice.

source

 

[Esiris]

I have way too many questions to form opinions about this:

What makes someone "Buddhist enough" to get the tattoos?
Is there a reason why Thailand Artists shouldn't be able to make money practicing their art and should have foreigners do it instead?
If it's Buddhist artists largely doing the work- is there something that is still sacred about it even if the person getting the art isn't Buddhist?
Does someone have to be Buddhist to be entitled to mark beauty on their skin?
What about people who aren't Buddhist- but still hold a connection with the artistic representations of Buddha?
I'm also not sure why people in Thailand would feel like the image of Buddha is exclusively part of their culture


All that said- I think that something that is sacred should be respected, like some people consider images of Jesus to be sacrilege- and I don't agree that should stop other people from getting that as art. Jesus with a giant purple and green woody? Yeah- that's pretty much beyond disrespectful.  

[Morgandria]

I wonder how they would feel if we asked Thai artists to stop carving 'Native' bone pendants with 'totems' on them and selling them on Ebay, as it's disrespectful to Native spirituality. Or the same, as pagans, for the pagan-themed pendants they also carve and sell online.

It's a lovely idea to try to preserve the sacredness of images or ideas. But I don't nescessarily think that it's anyone's right to be the arbiter of the worth or strength of a person's spirituality.  

[kyndryana3]

I wonder...would they also inspect you upon entering the country? What if you already had a tattoo...or even recently got one (so it was still very fresh)? Would they somehow flag your visa so that you wouldn't get stopped on the way out, or would they just not let you in the country at all?  

[Astrox]

The symbolism has a lot of meaning for Thai Buddhists, and it is offensive to some when their imagery has been appropriated by people who think the tattoos are a cool fashion statement or a souvenir of a trip.

To me, it just seems really ignorant and disrespectful to go somewhere and get tattoos of some one else's religious and spiritual symbolism.

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My big question is, how are they going to enforce this ban?  

[Esiris]

Astrox

To me, it just seems really ignorant and disrespectful to go somewhere and get tattoos of some one else's religious and spiritual symbolism.

What do you think about the double standard Morg mentioned?  

[Aakosir]

It bothers me when I see someone who has a religious symbol, but doesn't show any sign of being that religion. My brother has a cross, yet he acts like some heathan... I have an ankh, because I believe in an afterlife not dissimilar to the Egyptians. Most people don't know what an ankh stands for anyways...

I wish we could get people to learn about an image they are permanantly placing on their body, but we will never be able to stamp out the ignorance. And even if tattooing religious symbols on non-religious people became illegal, it would still happen. Most tattoo artists don't care about what the morons get, they just care about getting paid.  

[Esiris]

Aakosir

It bothers me when I see someone who has a religious symbol, but doesn't show any sign of being that religion. My brother has a cross, yet he acts like some heathan... I have an ankh, because I believe in an afterlife not dissimilar to the Egyptians. Most people don't know what an ankh stands for anyways...

That's a bit judgmental- it sounds a lot like your setting yourself up to be a judge of who follows their path and who doesn't.  

[Aakosir]

Esiris

Aakosir

It bothers me when I see someone who has a religious symbol, but doesn't show any sign of being that religion. My brother has a cross, yet he acts like some heathan... I have an ankh, because I believe in an afterlife not dissimilar to the Egyptians. Most people don't know what an ankh stands for anyways...

That's a bit judgmental- it sounds a lot like your setting yourself up to be a judge of who follows their path and who doesn't.

I don't see how it's judgemental. If you have a religious symbol on your body, then you should act the part. It's hypocritical if you get a cross, but are not christ-like, or if you have a star of David and aren't following Judaism.  

[Esiris]

Aakosir

I don't see how it's judgemental. If you have a religious symbol on your body, then you should act the part. It's hypocritical if you get a cross, but are not christ-like, or if you have a star of David and aren't following Judaism.

There are people who are culturally Jewish- but don't observe the kosher customs and stuff, I'm sure my gay Jewish roommate would love to hear you tell him he isn't Jewish enough because he has a boyfriend.

And Christians are expected to sin- if they didn't, there'd be no need for salvation.
No body's perfect- we're all people, and I think it's a little out of place for someone outside of that religion to try and judge a person based on what they wear ink or otherwise.  

[Aakosir]

Esiris

Aakosir

I don't see how it's judgemental. If you have a religious symbol on your body, then you should act the part. It's hypocritical if you get a cross, but are not christ-like, or if you have a star of David and aren't following Judaism.

There are people who are culturally Jewish- but don't observe the kosher customs and stuff, I'm sure my gay Jewish roommate would love to hear you tell him he isn't Jewish enough because he has a boyfriend.

And Christians are expected to sin- if they didn't, there'd be no need for salvation.
No body's perfect- we're all people, and I think it's a little out of place for someone outside of that religion to try and judge a person based on what they wear ink or otherwise.

If someone does not observe anything of the symbol they wear, then it is hypocritical. How many "I got it cause it loooked cool, but have no clue what it means' stories have you heard. I have heard a ton. It's also ignorance. And you're also twisting my words into something I'm not saying.  

[Esiris]

Aakosir

If someone does not observe anything of the symbol they wear, then it is hypocritical. How many "I got it cause it loooked cool, but have no clue what it means' stories have you heard. I have heard a ton. It's also ignorance. And you're also twisting my words into something I'm not saying.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth- so if you didn't mean it, I'm sorry.
I've heard lots of those "It looked cool" stories- I just figure that it looking cool- it being to someone's personal taste, can be enough of a reason to do it, especially if they accept the consequences.

I was at my favorite sandwich shop talking with Annette about the tattoo I'm getting on the Solstice, it's a piece of kanji and I know what it means, and the lady behind the counter was like "Cool! I have a Thor's Hammer and crescent moons on my back". I was like "Oh? Are you a Norse Pagan?" and she said she wasn't really- but she designed it herself and liked it.
It's her body- whatever I think about people putting symbols on their body isn't going to change her feelings on it and as far as symbols go, a hammer than protects humanity in the legends of her ancestors seems pretty safe. If it turns out it isn't- then she can deal with that between her and Thor when it comes up. It isn't like her having the tattoo somehow hurts how my Roomie worships his gods or anything.

You get just as many problems within religions as you do outside of them anyway- this isn't some kind of betrayal of oaths or revealing of mysteries belonging to closed cultures, and if it were- it wouldn't be the tattoo but the act of breaking those promises that was the problem in my opinion.  

[Aakosir]

Esiris

Aakosir

If someone does not observe anything of the symbol they wear, then it is hypocritical. How many "I got it cause it loooked cool, but have no clue what it means' stories have you heard. I have heard a ton. It's also ignorance. And you're also twisting my words into something I'm not saying.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth- so if you didn't mean it, I'm sorry.
I've heard lots of those "It looked cool" stories- I just figure that it looking cool- it being to someone's personal taste, can be enough of a reason to do it, especially if they accept the consequences.

I was at my favorite sandwich shop talking with Annette about the tattoo I'm getting on the Solstice, it's a piece of kanji and I know what it means, and the lady behind the counter was like "Cool! I have a Thor's Hammer and crescent moons on my back". I was like "Oh? Are you a Norse Pagan?" and she said she wasn't really- but she designed it herself and liked it.
It's her body- whatever I think about people putting symbols on their body isn't going to change her feelings on it and as far as symbols go, a hammer than protects humanity in the legends of her ancestors seems pretty safe. If it turns out it isn't- then she can deal with that between her and Thor when it comes up. It isn't like her having the tattoo somehow hurts how my Roomie worships his gods or anything.

You get just as many problems within religions as you do outside of them anyway- this isn't some kind of betrayal of oaths or revealing of mysteries belonging to closed cultures, and if it were- it wouldn't be the tattoo but the act of breaking those promises that was the problem in my opinion.

I've just gone in to parlors so many times and people go and look at the generic art that are in those large display racks and they look and pick... Without even thinking about meaning. That's something to do with piercings, not tattoos, since they cost a hell of a lot less and can be easily removed and healed. I personally want something that means something to me and something that I have designed. I have seen many people with the same tattoo, which is hilarious because they get the tattoo to be unique, in most cases. And when they get a "chaos" symbol from Warhammer, but have no clue what it means, they're going to get laughed at or regret it once they find out the meaning.

So why take so little time in thinking about something that is going to permanantly be on your body? Even the laser treatments leave the marks from the original tattoo and cost a lot more than the actual tattoo.  

[Esiris]

Aakosir

I've just gone in to parlors so many times and people go and look at the generic art that are in those large display racks and they look and pick... Without even thinking about meaning.

I think a lot of people don't realize that Flash isn't the be all end all of ink. *shrugs* If all they want is quick Flash, then I don't mind- I mean, they're the ones who have to live with it.

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That's something to do with piercings, not tattoos, since they cost a hell of a lot less and can be easily removed and healed.

It's funny you say that- I consider piercings to be really special and sacred.

Quote:

I personally want something that means something to me and something that I have designed. I have seen many people with the same tattoo, which is hilarious because they get the tattoo to be unique, in most cases. And when they get a "chaos" symbol from Warhammer, but have no clue what it means, they're going to get laughed at or regret it once they find out the meaning.

To each their own- in a kind of similar idea, I think it's funny that so many people look at the Holy Renascence art and think of it as this really divinely inspired stuff- when it was largely just a way for nobles to dodge accusations of vanity and still have their portraits made.

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So why take so little time in thinking about something that is going to permanantly be on your body? Even the laser treatments leave the marks from the original tattoo and cost a lot more than the actual tattoo.

Impulse, personal preference and stuff like that. I'm the same way as you- I want my ink to be deeply meaningful. I've got a whole shelf of books dedicated to the history of the symbol I'm getting- what it represents, rituals associated with it- tools associated with those rituals. But not everyone's like us- I hear a lot of the same thing in the BDSM community when people wear collars as fashion statements instead of statements of kink relationships.
For me- I have my ideals and the choices that I make for myself- but I think that there's a line between that and body legislation which is what this thing in Thailand is, and that creeps me out.  

[Yanueh]

Aakosir

It bothers me when I see someone who has a religious symbol, but doesn't show any sign of being that religion. My brother has a cross, yet he acts like some heathan...

Like some what?

"Heathen" means pretty much the same thing as "pagan." When you use it in that context, it looks very paganphobic.