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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:39 pm
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:57 am
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Up until a few years ago (2009/2010-ish), Jesus wasn't really mentioned in the house—let alone going to a physical church building. I pretty much grew up agnostic, despite my family having had a Catholic upbringing in their childhood. Just to give you a mental picture of where they had descended, as a kid I knew more about birthcharts, psychics, horoscopes and tea-leaf readings than I knew about Jesus. Clearly, going to a physical church building didn't save them or keep them motivated to stay on the path; they lived like the world and were of the world despite having gone through all those rituals (baptism, communion, etc...), they went to Catholic schools, a Roman Catholic Church, they'd confess in the little confessional booths, but they weren't born-again on the inside, something they openly admit today about their past.
A lot of churches develop this attitude of "if you don't adopt the rituals or routine of this church, you're not a Christian". If that's bothering you, just don't go to that church. You can get baptised at the side of a road, the importance isn't even the ritual but the repentance you feel within, that desire to turn away from sin (Acts 8:36-39; 19:4; Matt 3:11). Their routines in and of themselves aren't righteous or sinful, they're designed to help you stay close to god, growing in your knowledge of him, but they err when they try to guilt people into keeping up with their man-made rules/procedures. People are sanctified and washed by the word, pure and simple (Eph 5:26; 1 Pt 1:23), not necessarily the fellowship and how often you're "required" to fellowship (though fellowship does help; better to have godly companions than ungodly company; what passes through our eyes and ears affects us, and if it's mostly ungodly information [text/audio/visual] it will affect us negatively).
I have sought out churches, but am often met with practices that contradict scripture, so I still don't belong to a physical gathering place. I probably would join a Messianic one; it seems like the only one where I can have a clean conscience doctrine-wise. There aren't any near me though so I've been taking Matthew 18:20 to heart, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." As long as you have another believer there with you, consider it church. I'm sure a lot of persecuted people can relate to this, especially in North Korea where you can't even own a bible (though they still risk it) and you're thrown into concentration camps for being a Christian. For me, it started out with meeting at my aunt's house—with my grandmother, a couple of aunts and cousins—to discuss scripture, but that derailed; they started prioritizing worldly things above spiritual, so now it's only my mother and myself at this point (as far as being physically gathered with other believers). Aside from that, we listen to sermons/services online, live stream or recorded. I consider this guild a Church too. My mother keeps in communication with other believers in the family via facebook, lol, though I'm not really a fan of FB so figures YHWH led me to a flock on Gaia razz
edit: in a nutshell, the moment you genuinely believed and repented of your sin, turning to God, he accepted you as his child and you're a part of His church now. He'll move you into a flock to stay yoked to them one way or the other. The emphasis shouldn't be on rituals to get into a building/"club" of sorts (which is what some "churches" are turning this into; organized "religious institutions" aren't necessarily the church).
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:59 am
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real eyes realize Up until a few years ago (2009/2010-ish), Jesus wasn't really mentioned in the house—let alone going to a physical church building. I pretty much grew up agnostic, despite my family having had a Catholic upbringing in their childhood. Just to give you a mental picture of where they had descended, as a kid I knew more about birthcharts, psychics, horoscopes and tea-leaf readings than I knew about Jesus. Clearly, going to a physical church building didn't save them or keep them motivated to stay on the path; they lived like the world and were of the world despite having gone through all those rituals (baptism, communion, etc...), they went to Catholic schools, a Roman Catholic Church, they'd confess in the little confessional booths, but they weren't born-again on the inside, something they openly admit today about their past. A lot of churches develop this attitude of "if you don't adopt the rituals or routine of this church, you're not a Christian". If that's bothering you, just don't go to that church. You can get baptised at the side of a road, the importance isn't even the ritual but the repentance you feel within, that desire to turn away from sin ( Acts 8:36-39; 19:4; Matt 3:11). Their routines in and of themselves aren't righteous or sinful, they're designed to help you stay close to god, growing in your knowledge of him, but they err when they try to guilt people into keeping up with their man-made rules/procedures. People are sanctified and washed by the word, pure and simple ( Eph 5:26; 1 Pt 1:23), not necessarily the fellowship and how often you're "required" to fellowship (though fellowship does help; better to have godly companions than ungodly company; what passes through our eyes and ears affects us, and if it's mostly ungodly information [text/audio/visual] it will affect us negatively). I have sought out churches, but am often met with practices that contradict scripture, so I still don't belong to a physical gathering place. I probably would join a Messianic one; it seems like the only one where I can have a clean conscience doctrine-wise. There aren't any near me though so I've been taking Matthew 18:20 to heart, " For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." As long as you have another believer there with you, consider it church. I'm sure a lot of persecuted people can relate to this, especially in North Korea where you can't even own a bible (though they still risk it) and you're thrown into concentration camps for being a Christian. For me, it started out with meeting at my aunt's house—with my grandmother, a couple of aunts and cousins—to discuss scripture, but that derailed; they started prioritizing worldly things above spiritual, so now it's only my mother and myself at this point (as far as being physically gathered with other believers). Aside from that, we listen to sermons/services online, live stream or recorded. I consider this guild a Church too. My mother keeps in communication with other believers in the family via facebook, lol, though I'm not really a fan of FB so figures YHWH led me to a flock on Gaia razz edit: in a nutshell, the moment you genuinely believed and repented of your sin, turning to God, he accepted you as his child and you're a part of His church now. He'll move you into a flock to stay yoked to them one way or the other. The emphasis shouldn't be on rituals to get into a building/"club" of sorts (which is what some "churches" are turning this into; organized "religious institutions" aren't necessarily the church).
Wow that is a great use of scripture and can really help me when I even explain this to my sister. She refuses to go to church any more, yet I want to tell her that she should still follow God's word. Now that I know I can study with her just at home where she is most comfortable.
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:40 am
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:42 pm
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:47 pm
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Beloved_rapture Aquatic_blue A lot of churches these days I notice have a "membership" thing. I even had an old friend tell me once that they went to this new church and they have a few month courses for people who wished to become "members". I think it's sickening to be completely honest - I don't agree with it. I don't agree with "membership" because to me it's like saying, "Oh, you're not a member unless we indoctrinate you with our doctrine and make you believe the way we want to believe," or reason to treat someone less or like a stranger because they aren't a "member", which isn't right. I suppose that's how I see it because we are all called to inherit the blessing that God has given us and we are a part of His family when we come to Him, ask for forgiveness, and repent of sin. To say the least it completely shocked me. Seeing as how they encouraged my ex-boyfriend to break up with me since I stopped my bible studies to finish school. Though the choice to break up with me remained with him, so I don't blame the members of the church. And even though I'm not a member,there is a sense of family and fellowship I get from every single person there. Most of the members even came to my graduating art show even though I was considered "visitor".
When churches intervene in relationships for no good reason then it's a bit questionable to me. Not sure the exact situation between you and your ex-boyfriend, but I'm sure that you know the rights or wrongs in the situation you encountered there.
If your church treats everyone the same despite membership requirements then that is good. Although, I will just say to be careful because sometimes people will be nice, love to fellowship with you and everything, but that's only because they want to influence you to become a member and stay at their church. However, it is your decision where you stand with the church you are attending, how the people treat each other, etc.
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:51 pm
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Aquatic_blue Beloved_rapture Aquatic_blue A lot of churches these days I notice have a "membership" thing. I even had an old friend tell me once that they went to this new church and they have a few month courses for people who wished to become "members". I think it's sickening to be completely honest - I don't agree with it. I don't agree with "membership" because to me it's like saying, "Oh, you're not a member unless we indoctrinate you with our doctrine and make you believe the way we want to believe," or reason to treat someone less or like a stranger because they aren't a "member", which isn't right. I suppose that's how I see it because we are all called to inherit the blessing that God has given us and we are a part of His family when we come to Him, ask for forgiveness, and repent of sin. To say the least it completely shocked me. Seeing as how they encouraged my ex-boyfriend to break up with me since I stopped my bible studies to finish school. Though the choice to break up with me remained with him, so I don't blame the members of the church. And even though I'm not a member,there is a sense of family and fellowship I get from every single person there. Most of the members even came to my graduating art show even though I was considered "visitor". When churches intervene in relationships for no good reason then it's a bit questionable to me. Not sure the exact situation between you and your ex-boyfriend, but I'm sure that you know the rights or wrongs in the situation you encountered there. If your church treats everyone the same despite membership requirements then that is good. Although, I will just say to be careful because sometimes people will be nice, love to fellowship with you and everything, but that's only because they want to influence you to become a member and stay at their church. However, it is your decision where you stand with the church you are attending, how the people treat each other, etc. =) Thanks. I will remember that and make sure such a thing isn't being done to me.
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:54 pm
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Beloved_rapture Aquatic_blue Beloved_rapture Aquatic_blue A lot of churches these days I notice have a "membership" thing. I even had an old friend tell me once that they went to this new church and they have a few month courses for people who wished to become "members". I think it's sickening to be completely honest - I don't agree with it. I don't agree with "membership" because to me it's like saying, "Oh, you're not a member unless we indoctrinate you with our doctrine and make you believe the way we want to believe," or reason to treat someone less or like a stranger because they aren't a "member", which isn't right. I suppose that's how I see it because we are all called to inherit the blessing that God has given us and we are a part of His family when we come to Him, ask for forgiveness, and repent of sin. To say the least it completely shocked me. Seeing as how they encouraged my ex-boyfriend to break up with me since I stopped my bible studies to finish school. Though the choice to break up with me remained with him, so I don't blame the members of the church. And even though I'm not a member,there is a sense of family and fellowship I get from every single person there. Most of the members even came to my graduating art show even though I was considered "visitor". When churches intervene in relationships for no good reason then it's a bit questionable to me. Not sure the exact situation between you and your ex-boyfriend, but I'm sure that you know the rights or wrongs in the situation you encountered there. If your church treats everyone the same despite membership requirements then that is good. Although, I will just say to be careful because sometimes people will be nice, love to fellowship with you and everything, but that's only because they want to influence you to become a member and stay at their church. However, it is your decision where you stand with the church you are attending, how the people treat each other, etc. =) Thanks. I will remember that and make sure such a thing isn't being done to me.
No problem smile
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