Bringing Characters Back to Life - Good or Bad?

[saya shiver]

I've noticed that oftentimes in fantasy characters have a way of returning from the dead - a la Gandalf the White, Lestat, etc. When this happens, does it bother you? Is it a good plot point? Sometimes the reasoning behind it is really faulty, in my opinion. Like, oh, this person didn't fulfill they're destiny so they can't die yet! But sometimes it works out really well, like the impression or interpretation of their death was really just a misunderstanding.

 

[Renkon Root]

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.  

[saya shiver]

Renkon Root

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.

These seem like pretty solid criteria to judge resurrection by. Also, I believe we've met before - hi!

On that note, I have another question. What would you consider a good example of character resurrection? How about a bad one?

 

[NightIntent]

I don't think I've come upon a character resurrection that I've actually liked. If you're gonna kill the character off, have the balls to keep them dead. Unless it's like Sherlock Holmes where he wasn't actually dead, he just pretended.

The worst example I have of this is in a series by Rachel Caine--I forget the name of it--one character is killed at the end of the first book and brought back to life, and then the same thing happens again at the end of the second book! What even!  

[Renkon Root]

saya mini

Renkon Root

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.

These seem like pretty solid criteria to judge resurrection by. Also, I believe we've met before - hi!

On that note, I have another question. What would you consider a good example of character resurrection? How about a bad one?

I will use one of the examples you gave in your OP. Gandalf from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

Gandalf is one of the Istari, a race of middle-Earth that might be comparable to "angels". They are supposed to be caretakers of the world and are functionally immortal. (As an aside, the Balrog he fought was also an Istari, it had just been corrupted by Morgoth's evil.) When Gandalf explains that he has been "sent back" and that his "task is not yet done", this is a reference to his mission to safeguard to overall safety of middle-Earth. He for fills this mission by offering guidance and council to the other heroes. Aragorn never would have taken the Dimholt Road and claimed the dead army is Gandalf hadn't advised it. Pippen never would have been in a position to save Faramir if Gandalf hadn't brought him to Minas-Tirith. I feel his resurrection was essential to the continuation of the trilogy.

As an example of a bad resurrection, I'm going to go with Bruce Wayne's resurrection from the New Earth comic series of Batman. (Please note, since the New 52 reboot, the New Earth series is no longer canon, however, it was canon for almost two decades prior to that.)

In the New Earth continuity, Batman dies at the hands of Darksied when he is hit by Darksied's Omega Beams (zig-zaggy lasers he shoots from his eyes). Superman even brings back a body and his remains are interred in an unmarked grave right next to his parents' graves. d**k Grayson, the first Robin, then takes up the Batman mantel and becomes the new Dark Knight with Damian Wayne (Bruce and Talia's illegitimate son) as his Robin. But after a while, they bring Bruce back. Apparently, he was never dead, instead he was "lost in time". The Omega Beams transported him to another time and place and he spent all the time he was "dead" trying to get back to his correct time and planet. That, I feel, was a gimmicky resurrection that did not need to happen.  

[Maze353]

Renkon Root

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.

I'd have to say I follow the same criteria to judge a death & resurrection.

Aslan's death in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe would be another good death-resurrection in my book. Aslan's death was a necessary sacrifice to break the stone table and save Edmund. His death works within the rules of the world. According to the Deeper Magic, when an innocent sacrifices him/herself to save a traitor he/she will be resurrected.

For a bad example: the manga series Fushi Yugi. That author killed 3 or 4 of her characters off and then brought them all back as "spirits" just because. Come to think of it, she does that in her prequel series too....  

[saya shiver]

Maze353

Renkon Root

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.

I'd have to say I follow the same criteria to judge a death & resurrection.

Aslan's death in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe would be another good death-resurrection in my book. Aslan's death was a necessary sacrifice to break the stone table and save Edmund. His death works within the rules of the world. According to the Deeper Magic, when an innocent sacrifices him/herself to save a traitor he/she will be resurrected.

For a bad example: the manga series Fushi Yugi. That author killed 3 or 4 of her characters off and then brought them all back as "spirits" just because. Come to think of it, she does that in her prequel series too....

I'm not familiar with Fushi Yugi but I'd agree with Aslan. Aside from the textual evidence that Aslan should return, CS Lewis was going for a Jesus figure there, so the fact that he was resurrected was 100% appropriate. We spent weeks studying that book in my Christian Theology class because of how flawlessly the symbolism was executed.

 

[Renkon Root]

saya mini

Maze353

Renkon Root

Whether or not I'll like or dislike a dead character's resurrection depends on a number of factors:

* The manner of their death. Was it a pretty solid death? Complete with a body and autopsy. Or was it a little open-ended, mysterious circumstances, no witnesses, no body recovered, etc.

* The manner of their resurrection. Does it make sense within the established laws of the world? Has it already been implied that its possible for people to come back given certain variables?

* The author's motive(s) in killing/resurrecting the character. Was the death and/or resurrection actually relevant to the plot and do both events further the story? Or, did the author do one of the other simply for shock-value, to get a rise out of readers, increase sales, or writer herself into a corner and decide to abandoned the already established rules of the world.

I'd have to say I follow the same criteria to judge a death & resurrection.

Aslan's death in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe would be another good death-resurrection in my book. Aslan's death was a necessary sacrifice to break the stone table and save Edmund. His death works within the rules of the world. According to the Deeper Magic, when an innocent sacrifices him/herself to save a traitor he/she will be resurrected.

For a bad example: the manga series Fushi Yugi. That author killed 3 or 4 of her characters off and then brought them all back as "spirits" just because. Come to think of it, she does that in her prequel series too....

I'm not familiar with Fushi Yugi but I'd agree with Aslan. Aside from the textual evidence that Aslan should return, CS Lewis was going for a Jesus figure there, so the fact that he was resurrected was 100% appropriate. We spent weeks studying that book in my Christian Theology class because of how flawlessly the symbolism was executed.

Fushigi Yugi is a manga and anime by author/artist Watase Yu. It follows the same basic plot as all of Watase-sensei's stories. Normal high school girl meets handsome but unattainable boy and fall instantly in love without knowing a thing about him. After a few inconsequential events, the unattainable but handsome boy falls in love with the normal high school girl. People and events conspire to keep them apart. But with love and perseverance, they manage to condor all odds and live happily ever after.

Within Fushigi Yugi specifically, the high school girl is Miaka who finds a mysterious book with her friend Yui. Miaka is sucked into the book where she meets and falls instantly in love with Tamahome. She then meets the young and handsome Emperor Hotohori who also falls in love with her. But Hotohori is pursued by the cross-dressing man Nuriko. The three of them are incarnated guardians sent to protect a professed savior called the Priestess of Suzaku and they believe Miaka is that priestess. But a rival kingdom seeks the downfall of Hotohori and his country. The enemy country has a similar legend of a savior priestess, the Priestess of Seiryu. As it turns out, Miaka's friend Yui is that priestess.

Melodrama ensues.  

[saya shiver]

Renkon Root

Fushigi Yugi is a manga and anime by author/artist Watase Yu. It follows the same basic plot as all of Watase-sensei's stories. Normal high school girl meets handsome but unattainable boy and fall instantly in love without knowing a thing about him. After a few inconsequential events, the unattainable but handsome boy falls in love with the normal high school girl. People and events conspire to keep them apart. But with love and perseverance, they manage to condor all odds and live happily ever after.

Within Fushigi Yugi specifically, the high school girl is Miaka who finds a mysterious book with her friend Yui. Miaka is sucked into the book where she meets and falls instantly in love with Tamahome. She then meets the young and handsome Emperor Hotohori who also falls in love with her. But Hotohori is pursued by the cross-dressing man Nuriko. The three of them are incarnated guardians sent to protect a professed savior called the Priestess of Suzaku and they believe Miaka is that priestess. But a rival kingdom seeks the downfall of Hotohori and his country. The enemy country has a similar legend of a savior priestess, the Priestess of Seiryu. As it turns out, Miaka's friend Yui is that priestess.

Melodrama ensues.

That sounds dreadful. Literally everything about that sounds dreadful. Mary Sues abound. I'll have to remember never to read that one.

 

[Renkon Root]

saya mini

Renkon Root

Fushigi Yugi is a manga and anime by author/artist Watase Yu. It follows the same basic plot as all of Watase-sensei's stories. Normal high school girl meets handsome but unattainable boy and fall instantly in love without knowing a thing about him. After a few inconsequential events, the unattainable but handsome boy falls in love with the normal high school girl. People and events conspire to keep them apart. But with love and perseverance, they manage to condor all odds and live happily ever after.

Within Fushigi Yugi specifically, the high school girl is Miaka who finds a mysterious book with her friend Yui. Miaka is sucked into the book where she meets and falls instantly in love with Tamahome. She then meets the young and handsome Emperor Hotohori who also falls in love with her. But Hotohori is pursued by the cross-dressing man Nuriko. The three of them are incarnated guardians sent to protect a professed savior called the Priestess of Suzaku and they believe Miaka is that priestess. But a rival kingdom seeks the downfall of Hotohori and his country. The enemy country has a similar legend of a savior priestess, the Priestess of Seiryu. As it turns out, Miaka's friend Yui is that priestess.

Melodrama ensues.

That sounds dreadful. Literally everything about that sounds dreadful. Mary Sues abound. I'll have to remember never to read that one.

Its not really as terrible as the summary makes it sound. Miaka and Tamahome are Mary-sues and so is Hotohori for that matter. But most of the other characters are fairly multi-dementional. At least, as multi-dememtional as secondary characters can be.

My big beef with the series is that she ended it. It was over. Everything was resolved. But Watase kept going with it. Yui summoned Seiryu. Miaka summoned Suzaku. There was a huge climactic battle that rocked both the real world and the world of the book, but it was settled. The good guys won. Yui and Miaka were returned to their world and reconciled their friendship. Tamahome went back into the book. The dead characters that were ghosts found peace. Miaka and Yui returned to school and Miaka meets a real world version of Tamahome and they get together and live happily ever after. It should have ended there.

But she continued it with all this extra bullshit that wasn't necessary. Miaka and Tamahome's real world incarnation, Taka, are newlyweds and expecting their first child. But Taka is a high school teacher and one of his students is obsessed with him. She finds the book and forces her way into the story, making herself the new Priestess of Suzaku and somehow manages to steal Miaka's child even though she's still pregnant with it. Its pretty weird and at points, a little disturbing.

But it doesn't end there. There's another story arch, also after the series is supposed to be over. Where a demon called Tenko wants to use the power of the book for… something, can't remember. And so he creates a fake Tamahome to manipulate Miaka and pull her away from Taka. Then there's some other bull s**t with other people trying to seduce the lovers away from each other and stuff. The whole thing ends in ANOTHER climactic battle that's not all that different from the first ending battle, but the bad guy is different. Its pretty terrible.

If Watase had ended it and not continued past where the story ACTUALLY ended, it would have been a pretty decent anime. Its because she continued it that I can't stand it anymore. Its like she started writing fan fiction of her own work.  

[Maze353]

Renkon Root

saya mini

Renkon Root

Fushigi Yugi is a manga and anime by author/artist Watase Yu. It follows the same basic plot as all of Watase-sensei's stories. Normal high school girl meets handsome but unattainable boy and fall instantly in love without knowing a thing about him. After a few inconsequential events, the unattainable but handsome boy falls in love with the normal high school girl. People and events conspire to keep them apart. But with love and perseverance, they manage to condor all odds and live happily ever after.

Within Fushigi Yugi specifically, the high school girl is Miaka who finds a mysterious book with her friend Yui. Miaka is sucked into the book where she meets and falls instantly in love with Tamahome. She then meets the young and handsome Emperor Hotohori who also falls in love with her. But Hotohori is pursued by the cross-dressing man Nuriko. The three of them are incarnated guardians sent to protect a professed savior called the Priestess of Suzaku and they believe Miaka is that priestess. But a rival kingdom seeks the downfall of Hotohori and his country. The enemy country has a similar legend of a savior priestess, the Priestess of Seiryu. As it turns out, Miaka's friend Yui is that priestess.

Melodrama ensues.

That sounds dreadful. Literally everything about that sounds dreadful. Mary Sues abound. I'll have to remember never to read that one.

Its not really as terrible as the summary makes it sound. Miaka and Tamahome are Mary-sues and so is Hotohori for that matter. But most of the other characters are fairly multi-dementional. At least, as multi-dememtional as secondary characters can be.

My big beef with the series is that she ended it. It was over. Everything was resolved. But Watase kept going with it. Yui summoned Seiryu. Miaka summoned Suzaku. There was a huge climactic battle that rocked both the real world and the world of the book, but it was settled. The good guys won. Yui and Miaka were returned to their world and reconciled their friendship. Tamahome went back into the book. The dead characters that were ghosts found peace. Miaka and Yui returned to school and Miaka meets a real world version of Tamahome and they get together and live happily ever after. It should have ended there.

But she continued it with all this extra bullshit that wasn't necessary. Miaka and Tamahome's real world incarnation, Taka, are newlyweds and expecting their first child. But Taka is a high school teacher and one of his students is obsessed with him. She finds the book and forces her way into the story, making herself the new Priestess of Suzaku and somehow manages to steal Miaka's child even though she's still pregnant with it. Its pretty weird and at points, a little disturbing.

But it doesn't end there. There's another story arch, also after the series is supposed to be over. Where a demon called Tenko wants to use the power of the book for… something, can't remember. And so he creates a fake Tamahome to manipulate Miaka and pull her away from Taka. Then there's some other bull s**t with other people trying to seduce the lovers away from each other and stuff. The whole thing ends in ANOTHER climactic battle that's not all that different from the first ending battle, but the bad guy is different. Its pretty terrible.

If Watase had ended it and not continued past where the story ACTUALLY ended, it would have been a pretty decent anime. Its because she continued it that I can't stand it anymore. Its like she started writing fan fiction of her own work.

I hear ya on that one. I read a few of the following chapters after the first climatic battle and called it quits. She also wrote a "prequel" series after she finished beating Fushigi Yugi to death, in which pretty much the exact same thing happens but with different people. Sometimes they really don't know when to just let it go! Write something new!  

[golden-priestess2]

I hate the way jk Rowling brings harry back in harry potter, she could have explained it a lot better. I just think it's a disappointing end to a book series.(( plus i didn't like her killing Sirius and Fred off.))  

[Renkon Root]

golden-priestess2

plus i didn't like her killing Sirius and Fred off.))

I quit the books for a long time after Sirius died. I don't think I picked them back up again until that movie came out and I had to watch him die all over again.  

[golden-priestess2]

I did the same thing, i think it was the wrong move killing him. He was by far my favorite character in both the books and the films.