Paganism and Homosexuality

[[ Aradia ]]

Merry meet everyone! How are you finding yourselves today/tonight? First off I'd like to say that I know this isn't exactly a new discussion within the Pagn community. But I thought it might be nice to get a viewpoint from fellow guild members. biggrin

To me personally, I feel that there is one Spirit. That Spirit is broken down into the various aspects of life, duality included. There are male and female. Light and dark. Etc. Etc. And I think that homosexuality absolutely fits in. I think since we each biologically have male and female aspects, why not spiritually?

How do you all feel about the combination of a homnosexual lifestyle and the idea(s) of their being the God and Goddess (and variations thereof)? Please keep it civil.. I know you will!

*Storm*  

[LunaInverse]

I personally don't see why gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders can't also be pagan. Or why it should even be an issue.  

[The Bookwyrm]

If I recall correctly, we had a very heated discussion on this once before, but if memory also serves, it was because of the thread creator we had such a hard time...

In the very general sense of Paganism, of course alternate life styles fit. I can't go into a great deal of detail that's tradition specific, but I have yet to personally come across a tradition that frowns upon it, and I've met a number of homosexual Pagans.

In all honesty, I think Paganism is one of the more accomodating systems out there, as it recognizes the male and female aspects of the divine in all things. There are a large number of gods who are known for having taken same sex lovers, and there's a growing emergence of hermaphrodidic deities.  

[Starlock]

Wait... are we discussing Neopaganism broadly or just Wicca? Neopaganism broadly doesn't neccesarily say anything about the 'male/female' aspect of the divine and some systems don't deal with this concept at all. confused  

[[ Aradia ]]

Starlock

Wait... are we discussing Neopaganism broadly or just Wicca? Neopaganism broadly doesn't neccesarily say anything about the 'male/female' aspect of the divine and some systems don't deal with this concept at all. confused

Paganism as a whole. If you would like to share POV for specific branches of the religion by all means do so!! mrgreen  

[Jameta]

Previously, on Sacred Sources...

Quote:

I have just returned from a rather intense journeying workshop. There was a man there named Toby, who has spent the better part of a decade studying sacred Drumming with the Dagwa (Sp?) in South Africa. One of the things he said that really struck me was the position homosexuals have in the villages. According to the Dagwa, gay people are more in tune with the spiritual world. The explanation he got was that, because they are able to have 2 sexes, the physical and the mental, they are better equipped to deal with 2 realities, the physical and the spiritual. They are referred to as the gatekeepers, and it is their job to guard the village from negative spirits, demons, and energy.

So, according to the tribe, many of these gatekeepers are gay. Well, thanks largely in part to the Catholic Church (no comment needed) homosexuals are largely shunned in this country (With the exception of some lovely places like Vermont and Mass.) So, by shunning those whos job it is to protect our spiritual gates, we have opened our boarders up to all manner of demonic, discorporate, and bad spirits/energy.

Weben Banu

Many traditional cultures- especially ones with shamanic overtones- take this attitude toward homosexual or transgendered people. In ancient Egypt, however, what we today call "alternate" sexualities really didn't seem to have had any particular distinction from heterosexuality- but hermaphrodites were held to have special powers (as were dwarvish folk^_^), amulets were made in nude hermaphroditic forms, and some gods also were considered to be hermaphrodites.

Personally, I'm bisexual, but not very romantically inclined. I find both men and women attractive, but would rather admire from afar than take on the maintenance of any kind of personal relationship- I complicate my life quite enough on my own.^_^' So in other words, I'm an equal opportunity dater- but at the moment I'm equally disinterested.^_^

I haven't drawn any sort of association between my bisexuality and my spirituality, however. For me, my sexuality is purely an enjoyable part of my personal being. Once I accepted that, I was able to overcome a few gender-based hangups that I had and live my life more effectively. And that is what I think the gods intend for us, after all- simply to live our lives as who we are and as we were meant to be.^_~

Nihl

In no way does sexual orientation aid or abbet ones spirituality. To say that a male being attracted to another male aids them in connecting to their female side is a ridiculous claim as the essence of femininity can never be reduced to simply something sexual. And that is if we wish to define gender roles. Could you not say that the common view of what masculinity and femininity constitues in paganism is sexist? Are all men supposed to connect with active elements of fire and air, while women aer supposed to connect to the "female" elements of the passive earth and water?

 

[Jameta]

Jammeh's Late Night Two Cents: Sexuality is such an odd thing; one of its basic aspects is the ability to bring change to the individual(s). As such, I would not find it wise to go with a concrete basis of how things work with sexuality and spirituality.

Hell, spirituality hard enough to get concrete understanding for at times. xp  

[[ Aradia ]]

Jameta

Jammeh's Late Night Two Cents:..... Hell, spirituality hard enough to get concrete understanding for at times. xp

Well put! biggrin  

[Ezinu]

Hummm... This is a difficult one to post for, but I'll try my best. I'm straight, for starters; I have a wonderful boyfriend who supports my spirituality (though I wish he would take part). I can't force anything on anyone. I can find females attractive, but I just don't find them sexually so.

Now that that is said, I don't really think that being gay or bi is going to aid you in any ways spiritualy, but it does give you insight to the other spectrum. Which, in turn, may make you more in-tuned with the God or Goddess. Which, frankly, is always a good thing. BUT there are other ways then that, such as meditation, rituals, and prayer.  

[Hitara the Brave]

I dont see anything wrong with it. Im bi-sexual and Pagan... well not exactly Pagan... I grew up Pagan, but slowly converted to Wiccan.  

[phantomkitsune]

To me, sexual orientation has nothing to do with spirituality.

As to the concept of God and Goddess, I think it's a lot more complex than that. Otherwise we, who sprang from them, wouldn't have such a variety of sexual orientations, nor would anyone be transgendered.  

[Jameta]

UnholyDarkness

I dont see anything wrong with it. Im bi-sexual and Pagan... well not exactly Pagan... I grew up Pagan, but slowly converted to Wiccan.

Well, Wicca does fall under the umbrella term of Paganism, so you could call yourself either. 3nodding  

[Jameta]

phantomkitsune

To me, sexual orientation has nothing to do with spirituality.

As to the concept of God and Goddess, I think it's a lot more complex than that. Otherwise we, who sprang from them, wouldn't have such a variety of sexual orientations, nor would anyone be transgendered.

There's also the issue of those who are asexual.

I feel that sexuality can be brought into practice, but is not absolutely necessary. 3nodding  

[Mykellex]

First off I have nothing against any sexual orientation
Anyone of any sexual orientation can be any religion.

The thing I never could comprehend was the symbolism.
Beltane.
The marriage between the Goddess and the God.
Does this symbolism include homosexuals as well? I mean. Being tolerant of all orientations, and perhaps I am speaking from ignorance. But how do homosexual pagans relate to the heterosexual symbolism of the sabbats? Or lore?  

[The Bookwyrm]

Mykellex

First off I have nothing against any sexual orientation
Anyone of any sexual orientation can be any religion.

The thing I never could comprehend was the symbolism.
Beltane.
The marriage between the Goddess and the God.
Does this symbolism include homosexuals as well? I mean. Being tolerant of all orientations, and perhaps I am speaking from ignorance. But how do homosexual pagans relate to the heterosexual symbolism of the sabbats? Or lore?

That's actually a question that's coming up with increasing frequency, and there's regretably no direct answer to it right now. Beltane isn't so much about the marriage of the Goddess and God as it is about their sexual union which recreates the God anew, thereby instituting the perpetual cycle of life-death-rebirth.

I think a more important question to be asking, however, is not how sexuality affects one's spirituality, but how gender affects it and how we define gender. I had come across an interesting article on WitchVox, on the topic, written by a transgendered woman.

The Wiccan Mysteries of Gender

She raises the point that how gender is defined may inhibit an individual from fully experiencing their spirituality, and that's actually something I find myself experiencing. As a woman, I'm supposed to be able to associate myself with the various aspects of the Triple Goddes: Maiden, Mother, and Crone; but I can't. I was 19 when my family doctor very blithely delivered the devistating news that it was highly unlikely I would ever be able to concieve and bare children, and that it was almsot an impossibility without the "aid" of fertility drugs and sergical procedures; my menstral cycle exists at this point solely because of medication; I don't experience it when my body is left to its own devices, yet medicine can't find a thing wrong with me. I've effectively gone directly from Miaden to Crone, without ever experiencing the role of defined role of Mother.

And yet I experience the role of Mother often; I'm the nurturer in my group of friends; the shoulder to try on or the sound advice that people seek; I'm protective of my own (family and friends), and love each one of them dearly and deeply; I'm incapable of creating life and reproducing myself, but I still create: I'm a writer, I do beautiful bead work, I draw, I do carpentry, I make ornatments and lamps from stained glass. I can create all of that, but there are still people and groups out there who classify me as less than a woman, as unable to connect with the Goddess, because I am physically incapable of having a child because that is the defining factor in gender and womanhood.