What Makes a Witch and What Makes a Wiccan?

[Charity.Solei]

There will always be a debate over what makes a person a witch or a Wiccan. There are just too many different opinions out there, and I don't think there is ever going to be an agreement. So I think it's important to find what you personally hold to make some one a witch or Wiccan.

I'll start. I consider myself to be a Hellenic Witch. I practice a religion that honors the earth and the moon. I work with the Greek, hence the Hellenic touch. To me, a witch in the religious sence is one who practices a religion where communion with the powers of nature is sacred and important.

What makes some one a Wiccan is iniation, either by the Lord and Lady of the Wiccan religion or by a teacher and a coven. Thus, you can be a solitary Wiccan. To me, all Wiccan's are witches, as they hold nature to be sacred in that it is an expression of the divine.

How about you?  

[Jameta]

Well, I'm still waiting for a full verdict from the Trads before I get into specifics, but I like the definitions PLS has provided in an update in the second post of the Witchcraft Thread:

Quote:

-Religious Witchcraft (with a capital) would include religious Witchcraft traditions such as Wicca (and all its various traditions), the Roebuck Tradition, the Hedgerider tradition... as well as the numerous other Witchcraft based religions out there. These religions are forms of Witchcraft, but do not account for all Witchcraft. So if someone, for example, said Witchcraft and Wicca are the same thing they would be wrong because Wicca is just one form of religious Witchcraft, there are others out there that are less known. Witchcraft religions usually include the practical/magical side to their path, but it isn't required.

-Magical witchcraft (small w) is the purely practical side to the Craft. This is the part I mainly address with my information on Witchcraft here. This is also the part that can be mixed with any religion, as it is just a form of magic with no specific religious overtones (if any at all).

Along with some other posted information-

PLS

As we all know, there are many other types of Witches out there, so it's starting to look like Wiccan=Witch who follows the Wiccan gods, maintains Wiccan beliefs, lives by Wiccan standards, etc.

That's the way it's going, I think.

 

[Miss Lune Soleil]

Yay quotage! biggrin  

[DR490N]

technically, all witches are 'wiccans' because in the old days, they used to call us wiccans, long before wicca was an established of even existing religion. i dont know who the idiot was that decided to adopt the word "wiccan" as theri religion, but it is a word that simply means "witch".  

[Jameta]

DR490N

technically, all witches are 'wiccans' because in the old days, they used to call us wiccans, long before wicca was an established of even existing religion. i dont know who the idiot was that decided to adopt the word "wiccan" as theri religion, but it is a word that simply means "witch".

What's your source?

The origin of the word 'Wica', from which 'Wicca' and 'Wiccan' dervie from, is highly debated, and has a wide variety of older meanings, including 'necromancer' (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition), witchcraft, sorcery/divination (Online Etymology Dictionary), wise man (Draeconin's etymology page), and bending.

And the "idiot" that adopted the word was Gerald Brosseau Gardner.

On the subject, Wikipedia provided/

Gardner, in his two books on the subject, referred to religious witchcraft as "Wica", or "The Craft". Gardner's spelling was quickly replaced by usage of "Wicca". In Old English, "Wicca" is a relatively obscure noun of apparently masculine grammatical gender, glossed in two cases as Latin "ariolus", i.e., "magician", "seer", while "Wicce" is an equivalent feminine gender form glossed once as Latin "phitonissa", i.e., "one possessed; as Pythia". Historical use of the word "Wicca" as any sort of religion is unsupported by etymology. The verb form, "wiccian", which means "to practice witchcraft", does not appear in Gardner's written material, and is not commonly used in literature about the religious movement.

 

[The Bookwyrm]

DR490N

technically, all witches are 'wiccans' because in the old days, they used to call us wiccans, long before wicca was an established of even existing religion. i dont know who the idiot was that decided to adopt the word "wiccan" as theri religion, but it is a word that simply means "witch".

Actually, it's the other way around; we were called witches long before the term "Wiccan/Wicca" came into use; the only time period it can reliably be traced back to is Gardener and the 1940's and 1950's.

And to say that the two are one and the same is a really good way to get yourself flamed; it's actually possible to be one without the other, and people are very particular about making that distinction.  

[Winter Black]

I'm going to say this once, and thats it:
A Witch is someone who practices Witchcraft. A Wiccan is someone who is initiated into a coven, and follows the rules, God and Goddess, and so on, of Wicca. I know Wiccan's who do NOT practice Witchcraft, and I myself am a Witch, but I'm not, nor do I wish to be, a Wiccan. There is a difference, and I'm so... Bloody... Sick... Of people thinking that they are both the same damned thing.  

[Jameta]

Winter Black

I'm going to say this once, and thats it:
A Witch is someone who practices Witchcraft. A Wiccan is someone who is initiated into a coven, and follows the rules, God and Goddess, and so on, of Wicca. I know Wiccan's who do NOT practice Witchcraft, and I myself am a Witch, but I'm not, nor do I wish to be, a Wiccan. There is a difference, and I'm so... Bloody... Sick... Of people thinking that they are both the same damned thing.

True, though some quotage from Gardner has thrown a little bit of a pickle into the mix. sweatdrop I'll pull it up later.  

[Miss Lune Soleil]

The trouble with Gardner is that when he created Wicca, he just saw it as the "new Witchcraft" and didn't really take other Witchcraft paths into consideration. Therefore he refers to them as the same thing, and even says they are the same, that the Wica [sic] are the priests and priestesses of the "Old Religion" - meaning Witchcraft as a general.

These days, people make the distinction because so many practice non-Wiccan Witchcraft, and indeed there are other Witchcraft religions that are not Wiccan.

I've been doing some digging though, and it seems that even a lot of non-Wiccan traditions (like the one I currently follow) draw from the same sources as Gardner did - namely Murrey.
I will state though that even though a lot of my path is based on Murrey's writtings, we do realise that her history is skewed... it seems they just took her ideas and turned them into an actual path. razz

I actually read Murrey's writtings and it's clear that the majority of modern religious Witchcraft beliefs come from her - the Horned God, the Witch Queen/Goddess (not the MMC Goddess, that's R. Graves), as well as many other Traditional Witchcraft beliefs and practices.

And now I'm ranting about my own path and forgot the point of my post sweatdrop

....

POINT IS that Gardner had a biased view towards his religion being accepted as the "new Witchcraft", so he made no distinction.
In other words, others know better razz
 

[Starlock]

(C&Pd from "The Coven")

How I use the terms honestly depends on the context of the conversation. The terms "Wiccan" and "Witch" were used synonymously in the early history of the Craft and can still be used in this way today. The words also have a linked etymology, furthering a justification of using them as synonyms. Given the previously strong synonymity, I don't see much sense in biting people's heads off for not differentiating or having different definitions of such words.

While they can be used as synonyms, they also can hold individual and distinctive meanings. Generally I like to keep definitions of ANY sort of religious terminology a bit fuzzy around the edges to accomodate for different viewpoints, including the terms "Wiccan" and "Witch." I form the definitions based more off how OTHERS use the words; that means having several definitions for each word, not just one. Most dictionary definitions have several listed definitions anyway and I see no reason why these terms wouldn't have this as well (plus the fact that words are defined based on how they are used as much as if not moreso than how they're defined in the dictionary). If someone uses either of those words to describe themselves, I'm mostly content to let them use the words they please unless they make a blatant error (for example, I've seen Wicca refered to "Wiccanism" a number of times on Gaia and tend to correct that when I see it). Much, honestly, depends on context as to whether or not I think "correcting" them is neccesary.

If I did construct definitions though, they might go something like this (subject to major revision and in no particular order, not complete as I'm too lazy to do otherwise at the moment):

Witch
1 : a practitioner of malignant spellcasting and magic, typically associated with Satan or the devil and usually preformed by a woman (aka, the witchcraft practitioners killed during witch hunts)
2 : a sorceress; a practitioner of magic; a wise woman; a bearer of folklore and folk remedies
3 : an old woman, a HAG
4 : an alluring or charming woman
5 : a general-purpose snarl word, typically used towards women
6: a Wiccan
7: a practitioner of an Earth-based religion, a PAGAN

Wiccan/Wicca
1 : a WITCH
2 : a practitioner of an Earth-based religion, a PAGAN
3 : a duotheistic Earth-based religion centered around a God and Goddess
4 : a lineaged, initiatory, mystery religion based on the teachings of Gerald Gardner
5 : a solitary or group religious practice based off the idea of CUNNING FOLK of old Europe
6 : see website "Wicca for the Rest of Us"
(could add a ton more here, but lazy at the moment)  

[MOD66]

Jameta

DR490N

technically, all witches are 'wiccans' because in the old days, they used to call us wiccans, long before wicca was an established of even existing religion. i dont know who the idiot was that decided to adopt the word "wiccan" as theri religion, but it is a word that simply means "witch".

What's your source?

The origin of the word 'Wica', from which 'Wicca' and 'Wiccan' dervie from, is highly debated, and has a wide variety of older meanings, including 'necromancer' (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition), witchcraft, sorcery/divination (Online Etymology Dictionary), wise man (Draeconin's etymology page), and bending.

And the "idiot" that adopted the word was Gerald Brosseau Gardner.

On the subject, Wikipedia provided/

Gardner, in his two books on the subject, referred to religious witchcraft as "Wica", or "The Craft". Gardner's spelling was quickly replaced by usage of "Wicca". In Old English, "Wicca" is a relatively obscure noun of apparently masculine grammatical gender, glossed in two cases as Latin "ariolus", i.e., "magician", "seer", while "Wicce" is an equivalent feminine gender form glossed once as Latin "phitonissa", i.e., "one possessed; as Pythia". Historical use of the word "Wicca" as any sort of religion is unsupported by etymology. The verb form, "wiccian", which means "to practice witchcraft", does not appear in Gardner's written material, and is not commonly used in literature about the religious movement.

... PWNED!!!! rofl I don't know what it is but Today your making me laugh Jameta  

[Mathau]

the word witch came from the word wicce, which meant someone who manipulates and the word wicca is the masculine version, i do believe that gardner tended to call wicca by its present form because he is a male and that is what he practiced, ive never read anything by gardner but i do know about him and its percievable that he explained things through himself  

[Doctrix]

Of course, you know my own, personal opinion. There are many different kinds of witches, so what makes a witch depends on what kind of witch you're talking about. I believe a Wiccan is made through a valid, Wiccan Initiation into a valid, lineaged, Wiccan Coven that is currently practicing Wicca!  

[MOD66]

oh right my opnion...


Wiccans-Fluffy little things that like to talk controdicltly about there religon and worsip Silver raven wolf much more then there god and goddess

Witches- ugly old woman with unsligtly features ie. big bent noses, green skin oily and smelly hair and often have warts on ther putrsive nose, they eat babies and are all lesbains even the male ones





THis is just a joke im in a laughing ha ha ha mood atm  

[Feryal Riska]

Twack

oh right my opnion...


Wiccans-Fluffy little things that like to talk controdicltly about there religon and worsip Silver raven wolf much more then there god and goddess

Witches- ugly old woman with unsligtly features ie. big bent noses, green skin oily and smelly hair and often have warts on ther putrsive nose, they eat babies and are all lesbains even the male ones





THis is just a joke im in a laughing ha ha ha mood atm

I was going to say "I can't tell whether you're joking or not..." but then I saw all the stuff in my reply winow. razz