Could someone help me? (Deity-related Question)

[Rioto_Kish]

I've been reading about working with gods/goddesses for rituals and spells, about patron deities, and also spirit guides. I've read that animal guides could possibly be animals that you are drawn to, and Iwas wondering if animals that you are drawn to could be very similar to deities.

I have always felt drawn to wolves, (especially when I have felt vulnerable and lost, which has happened a lot) and although I can't really classify myself as anything yet (I am planning on performing a dedication rite next full moon) I was thinking that MAYBE (big maybe) that the wolf could be my spirit guide.

I looked up wolf gods, and came across Wepwawet, a god from Egyptian mythology, who was a warrior and (I think) he carried the standard into battles. According to some sites, his image has been blended with Anubis', and I was wondering-once I begin to practice next full moon, would it be a good idea to invite either Wepwawet or Anubis to a rite that I may do after my dedication ritual (I mean, quite a bit of time after my dedication rite-not straightaway) as I am drawn to wolves (especially for protection), or is this a bad idea? Any advice would be welcome!

I apologise for the text wall! If I sound stupid and a bit of a fluffy bunny, I'm sorry-I'm still very new to all of this. I have read about Wicca, witchcraft, paganism, etc, but I have never talked about it with anyone, so I am very unsure of myself.  

[Starlock]

First, don't worry about being that f-word. If you're new, you're new; I certainly wouldn't call someone by that term for being new. Then again, I tend to not ever use that term because I find it derogatory and sometimes outright bigoted. If someone else's practice is all sparkles and light and pop-charmed magic, that's up to them. Why should I slap a demeaning label on them for it?

Anyway, the answer to this question is somewhat going to depend on how you personally define deity. One annoying thing about most 101 books out there is that they don't bother to go into theology much so they don't ask you to probe some of these important questions yourselves. One work that does is "Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religion" by Joyce and River Higginsbotham. It has some exercises in it that will help you figure out what deity is to YOU. Is deity immanent or transcendent, or perhaps neither or both? Is deity one or many, or perhaps neither or both? How you answer these will determine how you view animal guides with respect to the divine.

Some answers will lead you to believe that everything is divine to begin with, and thus animals are not just similar to deities, they ARE deities. Other answers will lead you to believe that while there is a spark of the divine in everything, not everything is really divine (in which case, the animals are perhaps similar to, but not deities). A third answer might lead you to believe deity is wholely transcendent and is not present in animals at all.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Starlock has some excellent points about finding out what deity means to you, but you also have to work out what it is you're going to be practicing, which is going to influence how you vew the divine. wink

You've been doing some research, which is good, and now that you have a little bit of a focus, it's may be time to do some more. You've searched up wolf as a patron deity, now search up wolf as a spirit guide or a totem animal and see how that feels to you. I share your connection with the animal, and the wolf is one of my spirit guides (one of my many). After you figured out where wolf fits in for you, then you can start to think about aproaching wolf as a deity; do some journeying, set yourself some tasks when you're meditating so that you can find the right god and goddess for you right now, and be open minded.  

[Rioto_Kish]

Thank you both for your help! blaugh I'm still a little confused, Starlock, about what you meant when you asked me how I view deities. I'll try and explain this as best I can (I'm not very good when it comes to expression) so here I go...

I believe that their is a higher entity (that's the best approximation I can come up with) that is woven within the universe like a thread in a tapestry. This is the best analogy I can think of, but:

I see this higher power as a diamond, and that the deities, such as Anubis, Brigid, Isis, Jupitar, Hera, etc, are the many facets that the diamond is comprised of. They are the diamond in effect, but they are looked at individually, in order for people to better understand/fathom them.

My beliefs about spirit guides are a little shaky, as I do not know much about them (I'm going to look up some information tonight), but I believe that the animals we see in reality are the representatives of their spiritual counterparts, and that they possess part of these spirits inside them.

I have often felt unprotected and lost, so I guess that may have contributed to my connection with wolves, but I will research totem animals and spirit guides before I make any more decisions about this subject.

Sorry, last thing- how do I decide what I am exactly? I don't know if I'm a Wiccan, or a witch, or a pagan. I'm performing a dedication rite on 5th November, so I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using the Wiccan Rede and law of return as moral guidelines (though I've always been opposed to harming others) but I've read on lots of sites that I can't be considered a true Wiccan if I am not initiated into a coven, so I don't think I'm Wiccan...I've also read about Kemetic, Celtic, British Traditional, Hellenic witches and pagans (I also got very confused in the process!) but I'm not sure if I will stay with one pantheon (is that the word?) of gods. I'm drawn to some Egyptian gods, as well as Greek, and as I learn more, I could be drawn to others, so I don't think I fit under the description of any of these beliefs. Could I call myself an eclectic witch or pagan? Would this be correct?

I'm going to be a solitary, as I don't know of any covens near where I live (or even in the same state) and I'm nervous about communicating with gods/goddesses and spirits by myself. So when you take the time to help me, even though we've never met, I just want you to know I'm very grateful!

Sorry about the text wall (again) I'm just trying to explain as best as I can.  

[Rioto_Kish]

Oh, I forgot to ask-where can I find the book that you mentioned? (the 'Paganism: An introduction to Earth Centred Religion' one)  

[Starlock]

Rioto_Kish

Oh, I forgot to ask-where can I find the book that you mentioned? (the 'Paganism: An introduction to Earth Centred Religion' one)

Most major bookstores will carry it, but I suggest going to your local metaphysical shop and having them order it in for you. If it comes to it, you can get it Here from amazon.

Your view of deity sounds similar to that of Hinduism (the diamond metaphor is taken from Hinduism... basically means that the path to the All can be approached from many, many angles). The label Monotheist OR Polytheist is not going to fit very well since you view deity as BOTH of these, in essence. When you speak of deity being woven within the universe, that implies immanence (the divine is part of the world) rather than transcendence (the divine is seperate from the world). Immanence lends itself well to Animistic belief systems, or the belief that everything has a spirit. Given your interest in animal guides, an Animistic path might suit you. Native American cultures and Shamanism are both Animistic pathyways. As Gypsy said, working out what you're going to be practicing is important too. whee These models might serve you for that purpose.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Rioto_Kish

Sorry, last thing- how do I decide what I am exactly? I don't know if I'm a Wiccan, or a witch, or a pagan. I'm performing a dedication rite on 5th November, so I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using the Wiccan Rede and law of return as moral guidelines (though I've always been opposed to harming others) but I've read on lots of sites that I can't be considered a true Wiccan if I am not initiated into a coven, so I don't think I'm Wiccan...I've also read about Kemetic, Celtic, British Traditional, Hellenic witches and pagans (I also got very confused in the process!) but I'm not sure if I will stay with one pantheon (is that the word?) of gods. I'm drawn to some Egyptian gods, as well as Greek, and as I learn more, I could be drawn to others, so I don't think I fit under the description of any of these beliefs. Could I call myself an eclectic witch or pagan? Would this be correct?

No worries about the text wall, hun. wink I'll do my best to owrk my way through it.

Firstly, on deciding what you are... There's no set means of doing this. Certainly, you can be initiated into a particular path, or you can choose one for yourself. If you're selectingone, select one that's meaningful for you right now, something that speaks to you.

I'd advise against performing a dedication rite until you have something in mind; it's not that you can't change your practice or path later on if you outgrow it or feel the need to expand, but it offers you some direction now. Right now, a lot of things are going to seem confusing until you can find your niche and start working your way out from there; it's how I started.

As for the Wicca thing, there are two schools of thoughts. By one of them, the Traditional school, you are absolutely correct that you have to be initiated into a lineaged coven. But there is also the Ecclectic tradition that encompases the Solitary aspect, and can be (and often is) performed without any contact with a coven. If you choose the Ecclectic Wiccan path, know that you're not going to be recognized by any of the Traditional sects (such as Gardnerian, Alexandrian, etc.), and that you'll likely take some guff at some point or another.

As an Ecclectic, you don't have to devote yourself to one particular pantheon; you can work with any combination provided that the gods and goddesses you're working with get along. I started out as an Ecclectic Wiccan, working with an Egytian and Greek pantheon system, moved into the Celtic and have maintained throughout a connection with Dragon Magick. In another ten years, who knows what pantheon I'll be working with? wink

There is a such thing as an Ecclectic Witch, but remember that being a witch doesn't inherently mean you have a religious system backing you. WitchCraft recognizes an interconnectedness with nature and is more of a life style.

Just to give you some help with totems and spirit guides, especially in regards to wolf, wolf is a teacher and walks the road less travled closest to the forest's edge. You may be drawn to wolf because of the pack mentality, the idea of safety in numbers, but wolf is also a loner.  

[Rioto_Kish]

Starlock

Rioto_Kish

Oh, I forgot to ask-where can I find the book that you mentioned? (the 'Paganism: An introduction to Earth Centred Religion' one)

Most major bookstores will carry it, but I suggest going to your local metaphysical shop and having them order it in for you. If it comes to it, you can get it Here from amazon.

Your view of deity sounds similar to that of Hinduism (the diamond metaphor is taken from Hinduism... basically means that the path to the All can be approached from many, many angles). The label Monotheist OR Polytheist is not going to fit very well since you view deity as BOTH of these, in essence. When you speak of deity being woven within the universe, that implies immanence (the divine is part of the world) rather than transcendence (the divine is seperate from the world). Immanence lends itself well to Animistic belief systems, or the belief that everything has a spirit. Given your interest in animal guides, an Animistic path might suit you. Native American cultures and Shamanism are both Animistic pathyways. As Gypsy said, working out what you're going to be practicing is important too. whee These models might serve you for that purpose.

Okay, I wrote a reply to this before, but Gaia logged me out due to inactivity, and I'd written a page (big page) and posted it, but it didn't work, so I lost the entire post. Argh! gonk So now I'm starting again. Sorry, you probably didn't need to know that... sweatdrop

eek Does the Hindu religion really use the diamond analogy to describe their beliefs about deities! That's an amazing coincidence! I haven't read anything about Hinduism, and I made the analogy up as I was typing my response on the spot, because I didn't know how else to explain my beliefs. I didn't know that Hinduism uses the diamond as a metaphor. That's kind of scary...

Sorry to keep asking you (millions of) questions, but what is monotheism and polytheism? Do monotheists belief in only one god, and polytheists in multiple gods? (Okay, I just googled monotheism beliefs, and I think I got that right...)

I just looked up Animism on the internet, and many of their beliefs sound like what I believe. However, there is one thing that one of the sites said about the higher being, but I don't agree with. One of the sites said that the higher being distanced itself from man, because of something that man did which offended it, and therefore we can't communicate with this higher entity, only the 'lesser deities' (as the site called them.)

I don't believe that the higher entity has distanced himself from us, rather he is just too difficult for us (especially me!) to comprehend and therefore we call on the names, faces and personalities of deities to communicate and work with to help us better understand and fathom this entity. I also believe that we work with specific deities because of parallels of their qualities and the things we (I want to say 'require' here, but that's disrespectful to the gods) and that they can begin to be their own power in a sense. I am really not good at getting my beliefs across, am I... emo

Apart from this, can I follow Animistic beliefs, as well as 'supplement' the gaps where I don't agree with several beliefs with the beliefs of other religions, like Greek? Or can you only do that with certain religions, like Greek and Roman?

I'll take your advice Gypsy, and I won't perform the dedication rite until I know what I am practicing. Which could take awhile... emo There are so many different variations of the religions out there (Kemetic, Hellenic, Astaru, Nordic, Celtic, etc) and then there are the basic demoninations of Wicca, witchcraft and paganism, that I'm getting so confused.

Oh! Gypsy, I researched the wolf as a spirit guide/totem, and I can relate to the teacher aspect well (does it help that I tutor part time and wish to become a teacher when I'm older?...okay, maybe not...) and the wolf being a loner as well. (I am quite the introvert.) The defensiveness and protectiveness of the wolf is also something I can relate to (I have gotten hurt many times because I am very defensive about my family and friends) I have always been drawn to the wolf, but I thought about what times in my life I have been the most strongly attached to it, and I realised that I was especially drawn to the wolf when I was bullied at school (I think this might relate to the protectiveness part) and didn't have many close friends. When I was bullied, I longed for my friends to be there with me (I think that might be because I wanted my friends to be with me so I would escape the worst of the bullying.) I might be getting this whole spirit thing completely wrong, but from this point of view, the wolf seems to fit. I'm probably wrong though-am I?

I don't know of any metaphysical stores nearby, but I'll definitely look for one, and ask if I can get the book ordered for me.

Just a question-(sorry, this is getting really long) but how do I know what I am going to practice if I haven't done anything? By practice, do you mean spells and rituals, or something else? Can I be an eclectic Animistic (or something...) or is that not a belief system? I don't want to start calling myself something if it doesn't exist, so I just want to clear up as many questions as I can think of before I do anything.

Another question (I truly am sorry about the growing list of questions! I don't want to continue apologising in case I'm annoying you -this happens a lot with my friends: I over-apologise- but I just don't want you to get bored with my constant questioning!) I'm interested in spirit guides, and I was wondering: I'd like to be a healer as well (herbal mainly) and I'd also like to practice divination, and I'm not sure if I can mix these with Animism. Is this possible?

Okay, I'll stop here before this becomes the text wall of China. I hope you don't get bored with reading this-if I think of any more questions, I'll ask using short posts. Thank you again for taking the time to read my posts and for taking the time to answer them. (Plus, thank you for being so patient with me!)  

[The Bookwyrm]

You know what you’re going to practice by making a conscious decision along the lines of “WitchCraft is appealing to me, so I’m going to practice it.” Practice doesn’t just mean spells and rituals; it means participating in a belief system. You seemed to have an interest in Wicca (since you planed on drawing on it for your moral boundries), so what's keeping you from walking that path? Being an Ecclectic Wiccan doesn't tie you down to a particular tradition, and gives you a foundation to appraoch the others from. You may not stick with it forever, but it gives you a chance to get your feet wet and a context in which to place everything else. That's partly why you're so confused: You're trying to learn everything at once.

Animism is something that’s present in many other religions, so you don’t have to devote yourself just to that aspect.

Quote:

In religion, the term "Animism" is used in a number of ways.

* Animism (from animus, or anima, mind or soul), originally means the doctrine of spiritual beings.
* It is often extended to include the belief that personalized, supernatural beings (or souls) endowed with reason, intelligence and volition inhabit ordinary objects as well as animate beings, and govern their existence (pantheism or animatism). More simply, the belief is that "everything is alive", "everything is conscious" or "everything has a soul".
* It has been further extended to mean a belief that the world is a community of living persons, only some of whom are human. It also refers to the culture or philosophy which these types of Animists live by, that is, to attempt to relate respectfully with the persons (human, rock, plant, animal, bird, ancestral, etc.) who are also members of the wider community of life.
* One author and self-proclaimed animist, Daniel Quinn, argues that at its most fundamental, it's the belief that "the earth is sacred and we belong here".

Animism is already present in most branches of NeoPaganism, so you’re alright. wink

As for doing healing and divination works, they both factor in nicely; especially with animism, herbal and crystal healing would involve you working with the sacred earth and using its energies to induce healing. Again, though, the idea of animism is present in most aspects of Paganism already, and there’s no reason why you can’t practice healing and divination in conjunction with
them.

As for your spirit guide, I would recommend that you start looking some info on Shamanism, because that will explain it so much better than I can; you’re not wrong, but you’re looking at wolf as a sympathetic spirit rather than as a guide. What are you learning from wolf? Spirit guides are teachers, and they have knowledge to offer us, not just comfort. wink  

[Rioto_Kish]

Maybe I should stop trying to learn everything all at once, huh? blaugh Sorry, I just get a little carried away with my enthusiasm...

Being an Eclectic Wiccan/witch (not sure still) would be a good idea for me to start, and I can blend Animism with it, so I can follow my beliefs (the Animism), still have moral guidelines (the Wiccan Rede and Law of Return) and I can learn and practice healing and divination. blaugh Now all I can hope is that nothing clashes with another...!

I looked up Shamanism, but got really confused, because all the information I found was about actual shaman healers using the spirits to heal people-I found that really interesting, but I don't think that I could do that, considering the shaman I was reading about have been doing this for almost their entire life. Are there any good sites about Shamanism that I could read?

I'm thinking it might be best if I just stopped worrying about my spirit guide/s, and focus more on what I am for now...it's no good knowing that about animal spirits if I don't know what I'm doing! 4laugh If I rush things, knowing my luck, I'll stuff up a rite or something and end up knee deep in unwanted spirits. gonk

Sorry I got it wrong with the 'wolf as spirit guide' thing... sweatdrop Maybe it would be better if I didn't go looking for a spirit guide just yet. I'm just getting a little confused with all the information out there-it's kind of like I'm giving myself an 'infodump' without allowing my poor brain to absorb any of the information I'm looking up.

Thank you for that quote on animism! 3nodding It clears a lot of the grey areas up for me.

Okay, just so I fully understand this- when someone decides what they want to practice, it means that they are going to begin to follow the moral/spiritual, etc guidelines that are outlined (well, not outlined, but you know what I mean 4laugh ) in their set of beliefs. Is this right?

Thank you again!  

[Starlock]

Rioto_Kish

Okay, I wrote a reply to this before, but Gaia logged me out due to inactivity, and I'd written a page (big page) and posted it, but it didn't work, so I lost the entire post. Argh! gonk So now I'm starting again. Sorry, you probably didn't need to know that... sweatdrop

Wow, that sucks. I've had that happen a few times, but because of the browser I use, if I get timed out, I can hit the back button and my text is still there. Firefox & Safari = good. Internet Explorer = BAD

Rioto_Kish

Sorry to keep asking you (millions of) questions, but what is monotheism and polytheism? Do monotheists belief in only one god, and polytheists in multiple gods? (Okay, I just googled monotheism beliefs, and I think I got that right...)

Basically. Monotheism = belief in one God. Polytheism = belief in many Gods. To throw out another term, Duotheism = belief in two Gods. You could call Wicca a Duotheistic religion since it worships a God and a Goddess. The numbers game only takes you so far, though. As my religion prof in college said, Monotheistic religions contain elements of Polytheism and vice versa. This division really breaks down when you look at some Eastern religions, Hinduism in particular. I'll descibe this down a bit more in the next chunk...

Rioto_Kish

I just looked up Animism on the internet, and many of their beliefs sound like what I believe. However, there is one thing that one of the sites said about the higher being, but I don't agree with. One of the sites said that the higher being distanced itself from man, because of something that man did which offended it, and therefore we can't communicate with this higher entity, only the 'lesser deities' (as the site called them.)

Higher Being as in singular or plural? Going back to the numbers game, I think what this site may have been describing is just what my professor described in that breaking down systems into 'mono' and 'poly' really doesn't work that well upon close examination. In Animistic (and other Polytheistic traditions), what you worship is the 'lesser deities' that are inherent in the world (note, not lesser as in 'inferior'). We can interact with these since they're more similar to us, but we still recognize this this big higher distanced Being that's one entity. This One God is so far transcendent and so impersonal that we can't interact with it by a Polytheistic view. Monotheists on the other hand believe they *can* interact with this overarching unified Being. They also address some 'lesser deities' in the forms of angels, saints, and prophets, but their focus is on the larger Being of God. To quote something I wrote in another guild...

Starlock, in the Coalition for for Understanding Litanies and Theories Guild,

So to summarize in a simpler format:

Monotheism
--- the Unified Being is personal and CAN be related to directly
--- the divine tends to be Transcendent
--- a number of "spiritual beings" are associated with the religion but are NOT the focus of worship

Polytheism
--- The Unified Being is impersonal and CANNOT be related to directly
--- the divine tends to be Immanent
--- a number of "spiritual beings" are associated with the religion and ARE the focus of worship

I can see how what the site said could be confusing if you're not aware of this point. But then, I'm also not totally sure this is what the site was describing. sweatdrop

Rioto_Kish

I don't believe that the higher entity has distanced himself from us, rather he is just too difficult for us (especially me!) to comprehend and therefore we call on the names, faces and personalities of deities to communicate and work with to help us better understand and fathom this entity. I also believe that we work with specific deities because of parallels of their qualities and the things we (I want to say 'require' here, but that's disrespectful to the gods) and that they can begin to be their own power in a sense. I am really not good at getting my beliefs across, am I... emo

Not at all, you're doing just fine! Sounds to me like classic Polytheistic school of thought. The unified Being is fundamentally unknowable so instead of trying to comprehend the whole diamond, you look at some of its facets. After all, we can only stand on one side of the diamond to look at it; half of it's facets are obscured to us at any one moment, eh?

Rioto_Kish

Apart from this, can I follow Animistic beliefs, as well as 'supplement' the gaps where I don't agree with several beliefs with the beliefs of other religions, like Greek? Or can you only do that with certain religions, like Greek and Roman?

Firstly, I don't believe Animism is a specific system to begin with. Like the term "Paganism" it's more of an umbrella term for a set of beliefs. It's often applied to indigenous tribal practices that are pre-classical. In modern days we carry vestiges of these Animistic beliefs whenever we claim we can see ghosts, have souls, or work with spirits of the dead.

Some more random background based on crap I've read... Animism is seen by some anthropologists as the precursor to religious beliefs as it's the sort of basic belief that there's funky unseen stuff bending our physical reality. Animistim takes on a strongly religious aspect in the form of "there is spirit or magic in all things" or a "spirit of Nature" sort of thing. There's a real intrinsic respect and connction to the Earth. Animism is found more in hunter-gatherer cultures and is replaced with Polytheism/Monotheism once a society starts becoming more agrarian/city based. If I had to peg Animism in a sentance, it would probably be: Everything has a soul so everything is intrinsically valuable in its own right.

Animism can be blended with pretty much anything. Wicca itself, while primarily Duotheistic, is also Animistic in that it often works heavily with spirit realms. It also can be Polytheistic if the Wiccan adopts a particular Pagan pantheon in addition to the Lord and Lady. This probably answers your question about spirit guides/healing/divination as well. The concept of spirit guides probably comes straight out of Animism to begin with and early healing practices could take the form of exorcisms. Divination can also be linked to spirits. When I do divination, I often refer to the "Spirit of the Cards" (laughs).

Just a general warning, some find this kind of 'supplementation' offensive when taken to certain extremes. The stigma on ecclecticism and syncreticism isn't too bad, but there are still those out there who won't apprechiate it. Personally, take your spiritual journey where it leads you. Religion is a very personal thing and so what if others don't like your path? It's not their path!

Rioto_Kish

Okay, I'll stop here before this becomes the text wall of China.

rofl Wow, that was just cute! Don't worry about it. I've made long posts myself. In another forum I frequent, texts this long are the standard rather than the exception. It's actually nice to have someone asking some good questions. And because I have to put this disclaimer in, don't take anything I've said as last word. Do some digging yourself! I've done a fair amount of digging on the topics I've spoken on, but I'm far from expert-level.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Quote:

Being an Eclectic Wiccan/witch (not sure still) would be a good idea for me to start, and I can blend Animism with it, so I can follow my beliefs (the Animism), still have moral guidelines (the Wiccan Rede and Law of Return) and I can learn and practice healing and divination. blaugh Now all I can hope is that nothing clashes with another...!

Once you get going, I think you're going to realize that animism is already largely incorperated, so you're not going to have to worry about introducing it yourself. But you are going to find yourself with a good foundation to start from, a solid foundation, and that things will eventually get easier. Talking with other Pagans also really helps.

Quote:

I looked up Shamanism, but got really confused, because all the information I found was about actual shaman healers using the spirits to heal people-I found that really interesting, but I don't think that I could do that, considering the shaman I was reading about have been doing this for almost their entire life. Are there any good sites about Shamanism that I could read?

I wish I knew some good sites, but I don't. I'd actually advise staying awway from internet sources unless you find something general. Wikipedia is usually an alright source, but don't treat anything you find online as gospel. Books are a far better resource, and can be gotten at most libraries. Try Ted Andrews's Animal Speak
.

Quote:

I'm thinking it might be best if I just stopped worrying about my spirit guide/s, and focus more on what I am for now...it's no good knowing that about animal spirits if I don't know what I'm doing! 4laugh If I rush things, knowing my luck, I'll stuff up a rite or something and end up knee deep in unwanted spirits. gonk

Definately a good plan; take it in baby steps and you'll get there a lot faster than you would expect.

Quote:

Sorry I got it wrong with the 'wolf as spirit guide' thing... sweatdrop Maybe it would be better if I didn't go looking for a spirit guide just yet. I'm just getting a little confused with all the information out there-it's kind of like I'm giving myself an 'infodump' without allowing my poor brain to absorb any of the information I'm looking up.

It's not that you have it wrong, you're just... a bit over enthusiastic right now, and all of this is confusing. Wofl may be a spirit guide for you, you're just looking at why it's a sympathetic spirit. Just remember that you don't pick your spirit guide so much as they choose you. wink

Quote:

Okay, just so I fully understand this- when someone decides what they want to practice, it means that they are going to begin to follow the moral/spiritual, etc guidelines that are outlined (well, not outlined, but you know what I mean 4laugh ) in their set of beliefs. Is this right?

Thank you again!

That's it in a nut shell! Kind of like deciding what courses you're going to take in school, or what university you're going to go to, only in regards to spirituality.  

[Rioto_Kish]

4laugh Sorry, I'm not sure where that 'text wall of China' comment came from: it just popped into my head...

I think this whole 'Mono/Polytheistic thing is a little clearer now, but I'm still a bit unsure as to the Polytheistic belief about the One Being. I believe that its impersonable, but not transcendent. Like, its still immanent, but SO big, that we can't comprehend it all at once. It's so hard to explain this gonk um...here goes:

It's like knowing a person with multiple personalities. You can't communicate with them all at once, so you communicate with the personalities that you are drawn to, whilst at the same time, you are aware of the other hidden personalities. However, do I have to believe in everything the Polytheistic view believes, or can I remain on my own with this bit?

At least I know that I can be classified (a little) under the Polytheistic category. (It's nice to know that I can be kind of definite about something! blaugh )

Okay, I'll stop referring to Animism as an actual religion (sorry! redface ) and rather as a form similar to Paganism: loose 'umbrella' term for beliefs in universal spirits. I'm starting to think that Eclectic Wicca might be a good starting point for me, but I'm still confused as to whether Eclectic witch or Eclectic Wicca is what I should be. From what I understand, witchcraft is more the practice of rituals and spells, and the acknowledgement of nature, whereas Wicca was created by Gardner (I'm sorry, I can't spell his name!) from his drawing on several pagan religions which acknowledges nature, but also is duotheistic with the God and Goddess/Lord and Lady as their 'higher being' entity, but some also use pantheons of gods and goddesses as well. I'm not sure which one I classify as...I'm not too sure how the duotheistic beliefs would match the polytheistic beliefs, but then again Starlock, you did say that Wiccans who communicated with a particular pantheon as well as the Lord and Lady were Polytheistic, so maybe I'm just complicating this for myself. 4laugh

Thank you Gypsy, for that analogy about university courses relating to practicing-that made it SO much easier for my (overworked and stressed) brain to understand! blaugh I will definitely back away from knowing about spirit guides for awhile, until I learn more and am more experienced with rites and know more about the gods as well. Hopefully there are pagans here on Gaia that I can find and be able to talk to (I'm also hoping that they will be as patient and as understanding as you and Starlock! blaugh )

Okay, I think I understand things better now (not greatly, but better- I know I won't be able to fully understand my beliefs and other related religions ever, but at least I'm not completely in the dark anymore!)

I'll see if I can find that book 'Animal Speak' in my local library, and if not, I'll borrow something similar, plus a few others on pagan beliefs (and hopefully will not give my Christian mother a heart attack if she sees the titlles of the books-she's open minded-fairly-but she can't stand pagan religions for some reason, which saddens me. I have nothing whatsoever against Christianity, Islam, Catholicism, etc, but they're not right for me, and I don't believe in following a religion that you don't have faith in, so that is why I am learning about pagan religions: because they are so similar to my own personal beliefs. I don't want to rebel against my parents, or my friends-I just want to believe in what I believe in. Unfortunately, my mum doesn't see eye to eye with me on this... emo ) Hopefully, she will not see the books (I'm good at hiding things) and we won't have this problem.

I'm just going to keep reading about everything and anything (relevant!) and hopefully, I will be able to clear up my thoughts better.  

[Starlock]

Rioto_Kish

It's like knowing a person with multiple personalities. You can't communicate with them all at once, so you communicate with the personalities that you are drawn to, whilst at the same time, you are aware of the other hidden personalities. However, do I have to believe in everything the Polytheistic view believes, or can I remain on my own with this bit?

The numbers game gets so complicated... I went through a period much like what you're going through now trying to figure out the label I fell under. I stopped trying a while ago and instead decided to focus simply on what I believe. Since Neopaganism doesn't have any hard and fast rules, you can combine aspects of the 'istic' views Neopaganism tends to be characterized as Animistic, Pantheistic, and Polytheistic. It doesn't have to be an either-or. Polytheism is simply the beleif in many Gods; Pantheism moreso describes the nature of those Gods (they're present in Nature) while Animism describes yet another quality of spiritual beings (everything has a spirit). You might want to do a basic surf through the pages Wikipedia has on all these descriptions of the divine. I would start with Monotheism. Towards the bottom of the page is a box that says "Beliefs about the nature of the divine" that will take you to other ideas. Some of these I actually haven't run across before. I'd be sure to hit these ones:

Polytheism, Pantheism, Animism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Deism, Duotheism, Henotheism, Monism, and Panentheism.

Rioto_Kish

'm still confused as to whether Eclectic witch or Eclectic Wicca is what I should be. From what I understand, witchcraft is more the practice of rituals and spells, and the acknowledgement of nature, whereas Wicca was created by Gardner (I'm sorry, I can't spell his name!) from his drawing on several pagan religions which acknowledges nature, but also is duotheistic with the God and Goddess/Lord and Lady as their 'higher being' entity, but some also use pantheons of gods and goddesses as well. I'm not sure which one I classify as...I'm not too sure how the duotheistic beliefs would match the polytheistic beliefs

This is tough, because people define Wicca and Witchcraft in different ways. Once they were synonyms and sometimes are still used as such! Wicca is often defined more rigidly than Witchcraft. There are a couple schools of throught on defining Wicca. One things that one should only use the label Wicca if one has been initated into a coven whose lineage traces to Gardner. The other discounts the importance of this lineage. Most nowadays generally accept dedicants to Wicca provided they do good studying and are serious about the practice. Defining Witchcraft... almost don't want to touch that one. I usually think of it as folk practice: a bit of magic, a bit of herbalism, and a bit of Nature reverence.

For how both duotheism and polytheism operate within Wicca... often I've heard it explained that while there is one God and one Goddess (and that these two are aspects of the same whole, hence a bit of 'one god-ism' Monotheism is thrown in), the pantheons of various cultures which have male-female deities are all aspects of the one God and one Goddess. They're honored and recognized seperately, but also traced back to the one God and one Goddess. Make sense?  

[Rioto_Kish]

gonk I am getting confused! Sorry, I'm trying to keep up (and I'm wiki-ing all those -theism words too!) I've just read the page on 'monotheism' and it's very interesting, except that because their using words I don't normally hear, I'm getting tangled up with their meaning as well as what the article is about. From what I understood (and I may be completely wrong) monotheism is:

The belief in ONE god, or ONE entity that is transcendent, and cannot be seen in part, as it's aspects are just too many.

I'm reading up on the entire list you gave me, and I'll look at a few others as well, just to give myself a little bit more of a foothold. eek I never knew that there were so many different kinds of religious beliefs before-I'm overwhelmed.

I'm almost through the list (now let's see if I can remember all of them.)

I'm starting to think that Wicca might not be a good choice for me. I don't think I fit the 'criteria' for their belief system very well, and witchcraft sounds more relaxed and less lineage based. I'd still follow the Wiccan Rede (because it basically reflects my beliefs anyway) and the Law of Return (because I don't believe in causing others harm) but if I'm an eclectic witch, I can learn about a wide variety of things, without worrying about wandering too far from a certain path of Wicca. Does this sound like a good choice? Me being an eclectic witch?

I guess that it shouldn't really matter if I can't classify myself as Polytheist/ Monotheist, etc. I don't think anyone's beliefs would be exactly the same as another's (okay, apart from covens 4laugh ) would they? I think I'm under the branch of Polytheism, but I don't think that this would colour my beliefs in any major way. (I hope I'm getting this right, and not making anyone laugh with my ignorance...though I can be amusing to people sometimes, which can be a good thing, I guess... 3nodding )

Okay, I just finished the list, but I'd like to look up theism and spiritualism as well.

The duotheism aspect in Wicca is clearer for me now. Thank you Starlock! blaugh I'm still trying to comprehend just how many religious beliefs there are in the world. Then again, 6 billion people...there must be SOME differences in belief systems. blaugh I should have thought this out before I typed it...oh well!

I thought Neopaganism was an umbrella term for the reconstructed belief systems from ca. 1950s. (I think I might be wrong here.)

Thanks again for the info! I hope I'm understanding all of this better than I was in the beginning.