Goth-er then who?

[DarkPrincesa]

Why is it that out of all subcultures Goths sit around and debate what is and isn't Goth? Who is? Who isn't? What are the requirements? I have listen to numerous Goth panels at Dragon*Con where the issue was debated. One year its ultra Goth to be "so Goth your not Goth" and the next its super Goth to be "so Goth your weren’t Goth last year but now all the Goths are not Goth so you are Goth".

Please don’t take this as an insult, I just wonder why its so important for Goths as a group to keep their identity as a Goth so sacred. If you are you are with or with out saying, and if your not no matter how much you say it your.

There are so many layers of Goth, the aesthetics (my favorite), the music, the dark attitude, and so many layers of each of those. What "layer" of Goth are you? Do you play Goth-er then thou? If so why? If not why?

This is one of the oddest things I have found about the Goth subculture and why for years I would refuse to call myself that. I still don’t like labels per sea but I deal with it because it helps people identify different characteristics. As humans its easier for us to group to understand.  

[Kaydienne]

Nice to see someone shares the same views as me twisted  

[DarkPrincesa]

The same to you! I know everyone hates "posers" but it seems to be a special pet peeve of so many Goths.  

[GilAskan]

I find that goths tend to be fairly intelligent people, and understanding their own existence is part of that scholarly curiosity. I think "goth" is so commonly debated amongst goths because no one has really able to nail down a satisfying answer to the question.

I myself consider goths to be avid fans of goth-rock (and related genres) and a member of the goth culture.

In that goth is a matter of being a fan, I don't think you can be any more or less a goth. If you're part of the culture, you're a goth. If you aren't, then you aren't. You can't be more or less part of it. You simply are or are not.  

[-Isel-]

Audiophilic realist folk, fascinated by the macabre.

That's the best definition I can come up with, and even it doesn't nail "goth" completely.

We debate what we are to gain a sense of self. Whether you are conscious of it or not, inside your own mind, similar debates are occuring as to what you are and what you are not.

I know that I do it; however, I am vocal about it, which gives the appearance of my speech being self-absorbed and stilted, as adolescent human brains are.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

I don't think "gothiness" is a measurable variable... even if you pump so much goth rock through your eardrums that they burst; make cemeteries, churches, and nightclubs frequent visits; wear the palest, most life-depriving makeup money can buy; and dress like something out of a Tim Burton film...
you'd still be just as "gothic" as any other goth (though quite frankly, trying way too hard)  

[Lady Detarra]

GilAskan

I find that goths tend to be fairly intelligent people, and understanding their own existence is part of that scholarly curiosity. I think "goth" is so commonly debated amongst goths because no one has really able to nail down a satisfying answer to the question.

I myself consider goths to be avid fans of goth-rock (and related genres) and a member of the goth culture.

In that goth is a matter of being a fan, I don't think you can be any more or less a goth. If you're part of the culture, you're a goth. If you aren't, then you aren't. You can't be more or less part of it. You simply are or are not.

Points to you!!  

[Veruniel]

To be honest, I find this the single most tiresome thing about the whole subculture. Self awareness and scholarly curiosity are all very well, but I can hardly think of anything more boring than sitting around and trying to get a handle on what 'goth' is. Everyone has a slightly different definition, which means a discussion is bound to go around in endless circles and never settle anything.

In my experience, people gradually stop doing it when they've been goth for a long time. They may get to the point where they stop caring whether they're goth at all, and go off to enjoy the things they like without worrying whether the subculture will accept them. To me, that seems a lot more healthy than the endless game of trying to define the term so that it will include you — and, all too often, manipulating it to not include the people you personally dislike.  

[GilAskan]

Lady Detarra

GilAskan

[Me]

Points to you!!

Is that a positive or a negative?

gonk

Do you mean "I point at you because I agree with your opinion" or "I point at you because you think you're superior" ?  

[DarkPrincesa]

Veruniel

To be honest, I find this the single most tiresome thing about the whole subculture. Self awareness and scholarly curiosity are all very well, but I can hardly think of anything more boring than sitting around and trying to get a handle on what 'goth' is. Everyone has a slightly different definition, which means a discussion is bound to go around in endless circles and never settle anything.

In my experience, people gradually stop doing it when they've been goth for a long time. They may get to the point where they stop caring whether they're goth at all, and go off to enjoy the things they like without worrying whether the subculture will accept them. To me, that seems a lot more healthy than the endless game of trying to define the term so that it will include you — and, all too often, manipulating it to not include the people you personally dislike.

I agree with you 100% Veruniel . There are so many ways and so many different definitions that you can debate it for ever and never come to an answer. I agree there are some people who are obviously not Goth... but sometimes people have a interest in them and then what do they do? I also think that someone may as you mentioned be put off from doing what they want because its not "Goth" to their friends... and that is not healthy at all.

This is half tongue in cheek and half honest but....I would rather be doing "Goth" things then sitting around deciding what those goth things are that I should be doing but instead I am discussing it.  

[Elochai Sammael]

Yeah, trying to play the "Goth-ier than thou" thing is ******** retarded. It makes no sense to bicker amongst ourselves who's "Ms./Mr. Goth U.S.A".
It makes the group weak and easy to destroy. I don't think anyone I hang out with has ever even brought it up, but we laugh when the emos do it.
But, when you think about it, it's analogous to taking a pice of iron and a piece of tin and arguing over which one is more or less of a metal.  

[DarkPrincesa]

Odin The Accursed

But, when you think about it, it's analogous to taking a pice of iron and a piece of tin and arguing over which one is more or less of a metal.

OMG thats great! heart  

[DJ Database]

Thats how it is with me!

Everyone at school calls me emo because I dont have big goth boots.

Im not allowed to buy them so is that MY fault?
no...

I am still just as dark without them.  

[DarkPrincesa]

yeah one article of clothing shouldnt define you. You should define you, as well as your actions not just how you dress.  

[Vexworth]

Word of advice?
You're not missing anything without giant stompy boots of doom. Besides, if you wear them in the summer they make your legs all sweaty and icky anyway.

And your school people seem ickily unintelligent. gonk