A H/Hr and R/Hr debat area *civilized*

[lnkmstr10]

Most of the debates in the shipping war are over who Hermione will be with, Harry or Ron. I created this thread to talk about it in a civilized manner.

Let me first make it clear that I am a Harmony Shipper, meaning I support the H/Hr ship.
If you can not deal with my views respectfully, then please don't post your hatred, and if you do, your post will be deleted.
Feel free to ask me any questions, whether it be, where is the proof about their relationship, or why do you support that ship.

Rules:
Follow this guild's and Gaia's ToS
No obsessive swearing
Be respectful
Be open-minded about your opinions as well as others
Do NOT post in here saying something like, JKR said that Ron and Hermione will get together. (Honestly, I don't care, I still support my ship and I feel that they still have a chance of getting together. If they don't and I'm wrong, so be it.)
Also, please do not discuss any ships unless its related to H/Hr or R/Hr. (In other words, no Hr/D, or R/D, or couples that have no chance of happening in the books)

This topic MAY contain spoilers for those who have not read all of the Harry Potter books.

Well that's all I have, may the debating, BEGIN!

Also, if you are looking for some fanfiction regarding these couples, i recommend these sites:
www.portkey.org (Harry/Hermione, Ron/Luna, James/Lilly, Draco/Ginny
www.harrypotterfanfiction.com (basically every couple possible)
www.fanfiction.net (basically every couple)  

[lnkmstr10]

anyone sweatdrop  

[ChimpMan232]

She clearly likes Ron.  

[lnkmstr10]

Seroph437

She clearly likes Ron.

you aren't going to add anything to it? I mean I could say, "Neville likes Malfoy," but who cares if I don't support it??  

[Maroon Kalime]

*SPOILER*
If you read the 6th book it's obvious that she likes Ron. smile  

[lnkmstr10]

Maroon Kalime

*SPOILER*
If you read the 6th book it's obvious that she likes Ron. smile

in book 5 she is upset when she hears about harry kissing cho. And its possible that she is mad that Ron is so superficial when it comes to girls (I.E. fleur and lavender.) It seems to me that Hermione andHarry would have a much more mature relationship than her and ron, but I do appreciate your input biggrin and I have read some fanfics where Hermione and Ron start off together, and Ron is real sweet to her, so I guess I can see them together in a way, but I can also see her getting with harry  

[Maroon Kalime]

Good point...  

[Spoilt_lil_missy]

I do, and always have, known that Ginny loves Ron. I don't really feel the need to prove it, or argue it. Its obvious in the fourth book because of her jealousy of Fleur (ongoing jealousy) and his of Krum. But when you say that Hermione was upset by Harry kissing Cho...she wasn't. Not at all. She questioned him about it, advised him about it, didn't care that it happened at all. Other than she was happy for Harry. Actually, I got the impression that she was fairly absentminded about the entire thing. Just like the fact that she gave Ginny loads of advice on how to get Harry. I think that Harry and Hermione love each other like brother and sister, or maybe it's just the ultimate platonic relationship. There's really nothing else going on.

But I do understand that you have reasons for liking them, and respect you for that  

[lnkmstr10]

Spoilt_lil_missy

I do, and always have, known that Ginny loves Ron. I don't really feel the need to prove it, or argue it. Its obvious in the fourth book because of her jealousy of Fleur (ongoing jealousy) and his of Krum. But when you say that Hermione was upset by Harry kissing Cho...she wasn't. Not at all. She questioned him about it, advised him about it, didn't care that it happened at all. Other than she was happy for Harry. Actually, I got the impression that she was fairly absentminded about the entire thing. Just like the fact that she gave Ginny loads of advice on how to get Harry. I think that Harry and Hermione love each other like brother and sister, or maybe it's just the ultimate platonic relationship. There's really nothing else going on.

But I do understand that you have reasons for liking them, and respect you for that

I admire people like you! Even though we have a difference of opinions, you still respect my points. I just wanted to say thanks, for keeping this discussion "civilized"

As for my, i guess, argument, I'll say this:
All through the post-kiss scene, Hermione is rather distant in the conversations after she learns that harry did in fact kiss Cho. Hermione's behavior is described with words like absently, and anxious, and bussines-like. If she is truly happy for Harry, then why did she take a very short-mannered tone with him when asking about the kiss? And why did Hermione ask if Cho "cornered" him? Doesn't the word corner make you think of being trapped?

And as for 4th year, JKR did say that everyone was in love with the wrong person (or more accurately, they liked the wrong person.) They are 14 (and Hermione 15) so they are going to have many crushes. Most 14 year olds do not like the same person there whole life.

And why did Hermione ask Harry to meet him while on his date with Cho? She knew he really liked Cho, and as a girl, Hermione knew that having Harry meet her would cause problems with Cho, but Hermione didn't tell Harry that until after the date crashed and burned. And then, when they were talking about the date, Hermione threw in that she was ugly. She didn't need to do that, and if she didn't like harry, why would she want him to think that she is pretty?

(again, thanks for your input mrgreen  

[lnkmstr10]

And as for Hermione helping Ginny with Harry:
Hermione is Ginny's friend. And we all know how loyal Hermione is. What friend wouldn't give their friend advice on a guy, even if they like the guy that their friend likes. A true friend (Hermione) would give advice to their friend (Ginny) about the guy she likes (Harry) even if she (Hermione) has a crush on him (Harry).

THink about it, Harry has had a huge crush on Cho. Cho is very pretty, from all of the descriptions we've been given on her. So Hermione thinks that she isn't "pretty" enough for Harry because of his crush on Cho, so she doesn't think that she has a chance and that Harry will never see her as anything more than just his best friend. SO being the good friend that she is, Hermione selflessly gives Ginny advice about getting Harry. And, as I recall, Hermioen basically told Ginny to back down some...i don't think she said, back down and he'll like you, she just told Ginny that she was coming on too strong and Harry was indimidated by it. That doesn't exactly seem like Hermione is pushing Ginny toward Harry.  

[Luamervara]

And yesh, there hasn't been a moment within the books that Hermoine or Ron has ever said- Z0mgz! D:: i Uvez j00z! or...'D: Letz datez?' or even that ' D: I wanna hold your hand' bit in -any- of that.


*Oh she was jealous!* eh..no, if I have to watch one of my best friends suck faces with a shallow girl that I've lived with for the past something odd years I wouldn't be happy about it either.

I don't think Hermione ever thought Harry would be interested in 'Books and cleverness' her << Probably why she encourage ginny because she's the type of girl Harry might like *See Cho- Pretty, popular, Into Quidditch.*

*See Ginny- Pretty, popluar, into quidditch-and- she's Ron's lil sister.* >> Neither realtionship would work out.


>> *Sooo...I'm such a Harmonyshipper that I see it as that.*

That and that little theory bit about JKR using Alchemy throughout the books was inspiring enough to make me look at my old threads. >>  

[Spoilt_lil_missy]

I think it's interesting how different people can read the same situation so differently, and I do find your reasons interesting, I just read that entire situation completely differently.

I suppose its like the "Is Snape Evil?" debate, I could argue either way on the same pieces of evidence  

[lnkmstr10]

Luamervara

And yesh, there hasn't been a moment within the books that Hermoine or Ron has ever said- Z0mgz! D:: i Uvez j00z! or...'D: Letz datez?' or even that ' D: I wanna hold your hand' bit in -any- of that.


*Oh she was jealous!* eh..no, if I have to watch one of my best friends suck faces with a shallow girl that I've lived with for the past something odd years I wouldn't be happy about it either.

I don't think Hermione ever thought Harry would be interested in 'Books and cleverness' her << Probably why she encourage ginny because she's the type of girl Harry might like *See Cho- Pretty, popular, Into Quidditch.*

*See Ginny- Pretty, popluar, into quidditch-and- she's Ron's lil sister.* >> Neither realtionship would work out.


>> *Sooo...I'm such a Harmonyshipper that I see it as that.*

That and that little theory bit about JKR using Alchemy throughout the books was inspiring enough to make me look at my old threads. >>

I totally agree!!! I think that Hermione has seen the type of girls that harry is interested in and she knows that Harry isn't all about looks (like ron seems to be) but she still can't see him liking her.(see my previous posts)



@Spoilt-
it is true that people interpret things differently. Although I think one thing that really makes a difference is that some people interpret things the way they want to. Like for example, in OotP when Hermione kissed Ron on the cheek:
I think that she just did it as a good luck kiss, not as an "I'm interested in you" kiss. SHe gave Harry a kiss on the cheek in GoF and i think that that was just a friendly kiss. It shows a progression in Hermione's comfort level with both boys, but I don't think either kiss necessarily boosts either ship up. My brother is 25 and he says he gives his girl friends kisses on their cheek. A kiss on the cheek or even forehead can be totally unromantic, but many H/Hr and R/Hr shippers took those kisses and said that the kiss for their ship was alot more meaningful than the kiss for the other ship.

R/Hr shippers say that Hermione likes Ron because she gave him a kiss and that Ron likes Hermione because he touched the spot where she kissed him. My thought is that Hermione gave him a kiss because he was so nervous and she wanted to cheer him up and cheer him on. Ron touched the spot because he was suprised because Hermione had not shown any sort of physical affection to Ron (if my memory serves me right)

And R/Hr shippers shoot down the GoF kiss because we don't know Harry's reaction. It never said if Harry blushed, or cringed or anything. All we know is that Harry noted that it was something she had never done before.

Well Harry didn't grow up with parents kissing his cheek, so i'm sure it was really suprising for Hermione to do that to him. Plus, both boys noticed that Hermione really was "a girl" so I'm sure Harry was a little surprised for that reason to.

But seeing as how we don't know Harry's reaction, or Hermione's, we can only speculate.

Let me finish by saying thank you for your input smile  

[lnkmstr10]

Also, another thing I was thinking about:
Everyone says R/Hr is sooo obvious.
Well that's what people get from reading the books...
But what about the characters in the books??
I dont' think that we get anymore insite into the R/Hr ship than the other characters do, yet, they have assumed that Harry and Hermione like each other.
Rita skeeter's article just "confirmed" what everyone believed.

Now I know that not everyone believed that Harry and Hermione were together, but think about the number of times that people came up to the pair, or spoke about their "relationship."

Now I know that they are just friends, and are "platonic," but why have so many people just assumed that they would date? Even Mrs. Weasley believed it. Before the article, no no one really said anything about H/Hr, but afterwards, its like everyone could understand where rita was coming from.

Think about Cho and Viktors accusations. No matter how many times Harry and Hermione assured them that they were just friends, Cho and Viktor never 100% believed them...could it be that they saw what was going to happen??  

[Luamervara]

Not to mention you also have to get this part: The books are called -Harry Potter- and ect...

They're all from *his* POV. It's *his* thoughts we're all reading. We don't know what happens after Hermione or Ron leaves a room and just have Harry in it. Nor do we *know* what they're thinking.

It's through Harry's eyes that he *sees* this relationship that those that ship R/hr see. At the same time, we Harmonians see the same thing but *Harry* doesn't look into it for meaning. He didn't notice Ginny until the sixth book when *she* is fifteen.

Why is that? If she was so (excuse my old folks term for dating a lot) 'fast' with her boyfriends at fourteen, why wasn't he having a monster-in-the-chest- then if all that happened was a few weeks go by and all he did was go straight to the old manor and he sees her there and there's nothing. No monster at all then. She even spoke to him and all he noted was that she seems to be over being shy around him and all. Then that was it.
And she could do a boogey bat hex. That's the extent of her abilities that *we* the readers know.