Spiritual Journeys and Herbal Aids

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Gasp! Yes people I will be talking about the "d" word

Drugs ninja


But before you all get on your high horses let me be precise - I'm talking about salvia divinorum. What is this salvia you ask? Why is Nihl typing in such an odd manner? The odd typing is a result of listening to the La Vie Boheme from the Rent soundtrack.

Salvia on the other hand is an herb related to the sage and mint families that's been used by the Mazatec shamans for some time. It is quite legal in most places (Australia, a couple US states and a couple smaller European countries have made it a controlled substance) and in fact is not harmful to you, beyond results of inhaling a hot smoke.

Salvia is a hallucenogen, and last night I tried it for the first time. It was quite an interesting trip, but I'm hesitant whether or not to use it for spirit journeys.

For one thing, you need a lot of control, and energy that could be spent controlling the vision/trip could alternately be used to just get yourself in a journey state. On the other hand, one could simply have different knacks, and suck at meditation and be good at keeping a firm grip on their mind to give direction to the rather odd results.


But what do you people think? Keeping in mind that salvia is legal and not harmful (the smoke can be avoided by simply making a quid of leaves and holding it under your tongue) would you try it?


For the record, if you're going to try salvia, have a sitter with you to make sure you're alright. Do it in a calm and controlled place, where you won't be distracted or potentially harmed.

Link - http://www.sagewisdom.org/  

[Azana Brown]

I have heard of this substance, and it's still legal in the US as far as I know. I wouldn't do it, because I personally have no interest in such substances...




And smoke makes me cough really, really bad. >_<  

[blindfaith^_^]

Azana Brown

I have heard of this substance, and it's still legal in the US as far as I know. I wouldn't do it, because I personally have no interest in such substances...




And smoke makes me cough really, really bad. >_<

I have a friend who orders it and gets it sent to him here in the US, so it should be legal here.

That said, I'm often wary of trying a hallucinogen because I don't know what I'll see and I don't know the level of control I have. Another concern for me personally is that I need to take drug tests for work fairly often and at unscheduled times, while Salvia isn't illegal is would be awefully interesting to explain that on the tox screen.

Another problem I have with Salvia, is a also personal in that the people who partake in this drug partake in other illegal drugs. Its their life and their business what they do in that regard, but I don't want to be involved in anyway or form with illegal drug usage, even if sometimes its only as minor as pot. And yes I know that someone who does salvia doesn't automatically do other drugs, its just in this case the people I know do.

Other than that, I would prefer to work at controling my astral travels than needing to rely on a drug or learn to comensate for the energy of focusing myself while under its influnce. But it would be intersting to see what most people who tried it prefered and why.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

blindfaith, in regards to the idea that buying salvia helps fuel the habits of illicit drug users, you cold always simply get the plant yourself and grow your own herbs for the use of it.

If I were to use salvia for journeying, the reason would be this - it is WAY more vivid. Salvia is a very introspective drugs, and when looking to contact the divine through examining divine in yourself this could be a very valuable tool.  

[DR490N]

i've been considering the use of salvia divinorum. the problem is that various vamp friends of mine have had just as varied, and occasionally disturbing or frightening results, making me somewhat hesitant to use it.  

[blindfaith^_^]

Nihilistic Seraph

blindfaith, in regards to the idea that buying salvia helps fuel the habits of illicit drug users, you cold always simply get the plant yourself and grow your own herbs for the use of it.

If I were to use salvia for journeying, the reason would be this - it is WAY more vivid. Salvia is a very introspective drugs, and when looking to contact the divine through examining divine in yourself this could be a very valuable tool.

Indeed if I decided to try it, I'd probably get my own plant. If its related to mint its got to be easy to grow ^.^

And as for the vividness of your travel, was that too intense or too much? Hear from some people that the experience can be really overwhelming, but that could just be their take.  

[Pelta]

Nihilistic Seraph

If I were to use salvia for journeying, the reason would be this - it is WAY more vivid. Salvia is a very introspective drugs, and when looking to contact the divine through examining divine in yourself this could be a very valuable tool.

I've known some people who have tried it as well. They've even tried journeying on mushrooms, which were perfectly legal in Ireland for a few months so nothing illegal went on.

They said it was an interesting experience, but I had my doubts. I mean, one of them tried the mushrooms at a party, and that wasn't good for her or for the other people attending.

I suppose one of the largest problems is keeping a strict amount of control on the trip without allowing yourself to become too rigid. Also, doing so for a spiritual journey violates the first principle of drug-taking one must always remember on hallucinogens: IT'S NOT REAL. Remembering that is one of the only sure-fire ways of having consistently good trips. But doing it for spiritual reasons brings in the element of doubt. To do it spiritually you have to think it's real; to do it safely you have to know it's not. A bit of a conundrum, eh?

I would personally never try it. I have enough success with travelling without courting disaster. wink  

[Christina Prince]

While I don't buy into the whole drug thing I must confess...I found it easier to write my book after a beer or two. Also certain kinds of tea really makes me feel more relaxed, there for I find it easier to meditate and such after a nice cup of macha or Rooibos Chai  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

blindfaith^_^

Nihilistic Seraph

blindfaith, in regards to the idea that buying salvia helps fuel the habits of illicit drug users, you cold always simply get the plant yourself and grow your own herbs for the use of it.

If I were to use salvia for journeying, the reason would be this - it is WAY more vivid. Salvia is a very introspective drugs, and when looking to contact the divine through examining divine in yourself this could be a very valuable tool.

Indeed if I decided to try it, I'd probably get my own plant. If its related to mint its got to be easy to grow ^.^

And as for the vividness of your travel, was that too intense or too much? Hear from some people that the experience can be really overwhelming, but that could just be their take.

It wasn't too intense, it was fascinating. Afterwards I was a little shaken because it was the first time I had done something like that, but not shaken in a negative way. A lot can change things - the person taking it, the amount taken, place taken in. When I used it, it was in near-total darkness, which for sure affected the trip.

It is supposed to be fairly easy to grow, and survives in dim light as well as direct sun 3nodding  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Pelta

Nihilistic Seraph

If I were to use salvia for journeying, the reason would be this - it is WAY more vivid. Salvia is a very introspective drugs, and when looking to contact the divine through examining divine in yourself this could be a very valuable tool.

I've known some people who have tried it as well. They've even tried journeying on mushrooms, which were perfectly legal in Ireland for a few months so nothing illegal went on.

They said it was an interesting experience, but I had my doubts. I mean, one of them tried the mushrooms at a party, and that wasn't good for her or for the other people attending.

That's one of the imporant things to remember - be responsible with whatever you're doing. I heard of a guy that took salvia in the middle of a train station. Not a smart thing to do :XP:

Pelta

I suppose one of the largest problems is keeping a strict amount of control on the trip without allowing yourself to become too rigid. Also, doing so for a spiritual journey violates the first principle of drug-taking one must always remember on hallucinogens: IT'S NOT REAL. Remembering that is one of the only sure-fire ways of having consistently good trips. But doing it for spiritual reasons brings in the element of doubt. To do it spiritually you have to think it's real; to do it safely you have to know it's not. A bit of a conundrum, eh?

I would personally never try it. I have enough success with travelling without courting disaster. wink

Eh, I think that point is debateable. With my initial use, I didn't have that in mind at all. In fact, I was taking salvia as an aid to seeing reality in a different way. Personally, I don't really look for a "good trip" I look more for an "interesting trip."  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Christina Prince

While I don't buy into the whole drug thing I must confess...I found it easier to write my book after a beer or two. Also certain kinds of tea really makes me feel more relaxed, there for I find it easier to meditate and such after a nice cup of macha or Rooibos Chai

Now here's my question - how is your tea or beer not being used as a drug?  

[Jezehbelle]

They're trying to prohibit it in Georgia now. Actually, they proposed the bill on the 8th.
But this is the same state that's getting ready for a formal apology for slavery while at the same time, getting geared up for Confederate History Month.
It's illegal to have a hedgehog as a pet in Georgia, but it's definately legal to breed them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they passed it. rolleyes

Though, I will admit, I haven't tried it yet, I've concidered it, but if I did, I'd probably grow my own (mint's pretty easy).
Overall, it's appears much safer than other drugs out there, with no really crazy flashbacks like with LSD. (and it doesn't fund terrorism rolleyes )

Many, many more people die from tobacco related deaths or alcohol related deaths a year than they do heroine, so really, it makes you wonder which is REALLY worse. xp These crazy drugs, or the over the counter kind.
(I'll save you from the pot rant)

But that's sorta off topic and a little harsh.

At the very least, it's a pretty plant. I'd like to try it out, even for non-shamanistic reasons ("level one" sounds like it could be pretty nice).  

[Twack]

I've heard of Salvia, my friends have tried it before and it runs pretty cheep in NC. I personaly have never tired it because from what i've heard the taste is disgusting and it's not worth the buzz

And i don't know how it would be for spirit journeys, i'd imagine that it would be helpful but i also feel that magic shouldn't really be practiced under the influence of drugs or alchol unless you're doing it under the guidence of some one who well trained in drug induced magic.

But idk just my opinion  

[Christina Prince]

Nihilistic Seraph

Christina Prince

While I don't buy into the whole drug thing I must confess...I found it easier to write my book after a beer or two. Also certain kinds of tea really makes me feel more relaxed, there for I find it easier to meditate and such after a nice cup of macha or Rooibos Chai

Now here's my question - how is your tea or beer not being used as a drug?

That depends on your definition of drug. Yes tea and beer alter the mind but on no where near the same level as say Acid or Shrooms. I feel the physical affects of tea and beer more so than the spiritual affects. I should correct myself in saying that the tea and beer relaxes my body enough after a hard day's work so that I may do more creative things if the need be there. I don't drink all the time yet most of my good ideas come to me in the shower.  

[blindfaith^_^]

Jezehbelle

They're trying to prohibit it in Georgia now.

*is jealous that you are in Georgia with all that awesome growing season* I recently heard a speaker from Athens Georgia who was supposed to be talking to us about how to grow "crazy looking plants". It really turned out to be a Georgia is beautiful speech, and while I didn't care for the speaker, I am not intrigued as to whether or not Georgia is anywhere near as amazing as he stated. I've been through a couple of times, but it was highway stretches and I wasn't paying much attention :blush: So while I realize you've probably never been to Athens, Georgia before, I've got to ask, is it as wonderful there as this guy made it sound?

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Though, I will admit, I haven't tried it yet, I've concidered it, but if I did, I'd probably grow my own (mint's pretty easy).
Overall, it's appears much safer than other drugs out there, with no really crazy flashbacks like with LSD. (and it doesn't fund terrorism rolleyes )

*Nods* I would totally consider trying salvia before any of its alternatives because it is legal, it seems to have no side affects, and I can gaurentee the quality of product either by growing it or getting it from a reputable place. Everyone seems to forget the concerns about actually knowing what you're taking, but it seems to me to be a fairly common problem in something that is as easy to identify as pot, so why would one not acknowledge it as a concern higher up the drug chain?

Its like I tell some of my friends, if I were going to try an illegal drug, it would be ecstasy, because at least that sounds like a definately good feeling drug. However, I'm never going to try it because besides the significant inherent dangers in taking such a drug, it is a completely chemically made drug that is easy to make fakes of. I don't have the resources to check what I'm being sold.

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Many, many more people die from tobacco related deaths or alcohol related deaths a year than they do heroine, so really, it makes you wonder which is REALLY worse. xp These crazy drugs, or the over the counter kind.

I know this is going to show major ignorance and its going to make everyone gasp due to the DARE culture I was raised in, but people die from tobacco overdoses? I thought it was the others stuff in the cigarettes and or some sort of cancer or disease related to smoking that killed most people. I mean I've seen people who smoke more than a pack in one sitting and are seemingly fine, besides the obvious lung damage one is inflicting, I didn't think overdosing was a huge concern.

Couldn't one argue that the easy access, along with the wider market for the former two drugs help to increase the amount of people who die from the first two. Everyone I know except for one person (and children) has drank and or smoked tobacco at some point in time. No one I know has tried heroine. Out of those people I know who have drank and or smoked, they have all either done something stupid or watched someone else do something stupid while under the influnce, and of course I couldn't speak for heroine users. (I know its a little off topic cause we're talking about salvia specifically, but meh in my job I hear a lot of drug stats tossed around all the time, its always interesting to hear other's takes on the same info).

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At the very least, it's a pretty plant. I'd like to try it out, even for non-shamanistic reasons ("level one" sounds like it could be pretty nice).

I'm thinking I might look into getting some to grow just because it is pretty.

Just to throw it out there too, you can eat or extract the leaves juices too. So if you have a plant or can get it fresh you wouldn't have to smoke it. Of course how many leaves you need to make this work varies from 6-120 depending on the person and report. It would be interesting to know about the potency of drying the herb and those affects. I know for example, that mint is more potent when using fresh or frozen leaves for cooking or syrups. Of course that is an execption to the rule and usually its three teaspoons of fresh plant product for every teaspoon of dried product and since salvia comes from both mint and sage (which is more strong when dried) I wonder how that effects its drug usage.

Out of curiousity, how does salvia taste?