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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:52 pm
Slick Southpaw Mini_Angel_1994 When you understand that Allah is the one who made everyone, including me and you. I am in perfect agreement with this. Mini_Angel_1994 So, Allah knows that a human is a sinner, and he has a weak body, maybe fall for things. So, when a girl goes out, wearing make up, most of her body out. Allah knows since the world beginning that some guy will have certain emotions, and something really bad will happen ( God forbid ). Then you are assuming that God has no faith in human self control. That God does not acknowledge that while humans are weak, they are made in his image. If humans were inherently evil as you propose, then there would be no hope for the human race. Yet women walk uncovered, unmolested. Many women do not suffer from these "evil" intentions, as you speak of. You place emphasis on the outside rather than internal.That what is on the outside sires evil intentions. Mini_Angel_1994 So it's important to protect ourselves before something bad will happen. There's always a potential for something bad to happen in life. You might as well lock yourself in a room if you're going off of that reasoning. I will put a quote from my holy scriptures for you to ponder, because your hadiths do not make sense to me, as I do not see enough justification.
Nothing that goes into someone from outside can make that person unclean; it is the things that come out of someone that make that person unclean. Anyone who has ears for listening should listen!' When he had gone into the house, away from the crowd, his disciples questioned him about the parable. He said to them, 'Even you -- don't you understand? Can't you see that nothing that goes into someone from outside can make that person unclean, because it goes not into the heart but into the stomach and passes into the sewer? And he went on, 'It is what comes out of someone that makes that person unclean. For it is from within, from the heart, that evil intentions emerge: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within and make a person unclean.' (Mk 7:15-23)
I cannot agree with your reasoning. You put on a piece of cloth for something that MAY happen. You separate men and women for something that MAY happen. Does your Allah punish men and women simply for thinking lustful thoughts? Even if it is for a brief moment? If so, then Muslims are in for harsh punishments indeed, as we are all sexual creatures. If I'm in a room with a man who is not related to me doesn't mean he is going to feel me up the moment the third party member leaves. If I don't wear something to cover my head, it doesn't mean I'm going to get bothered by idiots walking down the street. There's always a risk in such things happening, to deny it would be stupid, but these measures are rather...primitive in my opinion. I see no justification still. Mini_Angel_1994 i'm not saying Hijab only protects a girl, there are some girls who wear Hijab and they have not that much of faith , they date, they go out alone with their boyfriends. 100% something is going to happen, psht. obviously 'wild muslim girls who date' should have a talk with catholic couples who date then rolleyes most catholic couples that I know have dated and had no tragedy whatsoever. We still say no to premarital sex, and most of them have turned out to be pretty decent and wonderful marriages. We encourage modest covering, but we don't say it's "GODS COMMAND TO WEAR THIS AND IF YOU DATE YOU'LL GET INTO HUGE TROUBLE"
100% of the time, something will happen, that is a given, but what will happen is an entirely different matter that you haven't clarified upon...can you predict exactly what will happen for each and every situation? Every time? stare Mini_Angel_1994 He wants Hijab with good deeds, following the rules. Can you understand? Nope. Look, when we follow rules in Catholicism as established by God, we have something called doctrine; it explains why we follow the rules. There is reasoning behind what we follow. Clear-cut reasoning. You have not given me any clear notion except of some vague future of something that MAY happen. What are, all Muslims suddenly prophets, able to predict the future of a woman who doesn't wear the piece of cloth and what would happen if a woman is alone with a man? Mini_Angel_1994 I mean, Hijab comes along with those rules. There's no way that Hijab can do anything without following the rules I said. It'll be as you said: EXTRA CLOTH. It wouldn't do anything. Excuse me for what I'm about to say, you're not a guy, so may not understand it. I may be able to convince a guy with Hijab because he might know what I was talking about. I doubt you'd be able to convince a guy if he's not Muslim rolleyes More? Okay, 1. Me too. 2. I know this young lady seems to not have her thought process streight on this topic, but God commands us to be "modest." It's like the phrase, "you are what you eat," If you dress modestly, then hopefully, if your not full off hormonal changes, you will act with modesty. Hijab is not a superficial matter, though people tend to make it one, that's why i love living in the U.S.! As said before, it is a personal thing. God gave us the power of free will, and He wants to see if we will make the right choice to stay on the right path, or if we will go astray. It's a matter of having responsibitly in our actions and power. 4. I believe I've answered this one. 5. Hmm, her justification is wrong, therefore you have the wrong idea. We are not guilty if we think sexually, unless you know, you imagine porn everytime you feel aroused. I mean, I find people attractive, that doesn't mean I am getting a sin, I can't help that. It's just a matter of self control, I suppose. The Hijab is not the only thing in Islam, matter of fact it's a molecule compaired to all of the other important duties and morals one must have. Please don't judge a religion by one point and just poke at it, expecially if it is coming from a young and naive girl. sad 6. First off all, pure Islam does not inforce the veil, it's only the people who have bent Islam out of shape and call it "true" that do inforce. It's a choice, if I may say it again. You're Catholic? Good, my best friend is also Catholic and we find our religions very similar in the matter of morals. smile Yes, I don't like it when Muslim girls go off and excessivly flirt with boys, but I don't think that dating will be 100% danger. I mean I feel embarrassed if any girl goes and does idiotic things with boys just to get lucky. And before someone goes off, Islam is NOT about arranged merrigies. It's just with the approval of the parents as well, like the child can't just run off with someone just as the parents can't inforce a child to marry another. 7. There is reasoning behind Islam as well, it's just a matter of finding and experencing Islam in it's true form, not the messed up modern so called "Islam." Just as nuns choose their path, women choose the Hijab. 8. No comment. I hope I helped smile
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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:57 pm
Pheonixia Ratri_Cat I see it as another irritating piece of cloth, donned for the sake of "modesty" It's a stupid piece of cloth in my opinion. Whether or not you wear it shouldn't be a determination of how "modest" or "chaste" a woman is. I say this because I'm not Muslim, and I don't see the point. But since it is commanded by God in the Qu'ran, I suppose there's a reason for it for Muslim women.
twisted It's just difference in opinion. For example, I can say that I would most definitely find it irritating in the morning if I had to groom myself perfectly every morning to make myself look appealing to others. What a waste of time........ I sleep while others get up at like 6:00am to straighten their hair, etc. And I don't want to change that. Because I wear the Hijab I can just tie my hair in a messy knot and not care what people think about me. Besides that perk there are many other worldly perks that a person get for wearing the hijab. For example, when it is super cold outside and other people ears are freezing I just (laugh inside) because my ears are not freezing at all because of the "cloth" I wear on my head. I know that if a guy choose's to marry me, it will be less likely that he will pick me for my outer beauty but because he likes my inner beauty. I have more self esteem, because whereas modern society (through media) emphasizes outer beauty so much as a means of being cool, or people liking you, I know that people will like me even if I don't have the hottest hair on the block. (And I am not saying that people can only get self esteem by wearing a cloth on their heads). I get to be DiFfErent. I dislike how the majority of society decides to conform to one trend. I like individuality. I don't know about other societies but people in Canada (Calgary) respect my religious outlook on life more. For example, in a crowded train/bus people will move over to give me room so we are not touching. Because I wear a scarf, people wonder more about my religion and ask questions. So, by wearing a scarf I can correct people's bias's about my religion, and also spread religious teachings. Haha and there are many more. And for the people that say that a big reason Muslim females wear the hijaab is to be chaste I want to inform you that you are wrong. In Arabic culture females only wear a hijaab as a means of cultural identity. I see TOO many Arabic females on the street that have a hijaab and at the same time wear loads of makeup and tight clothes. That is not chastity. I also see the other extreme, aka females who wear a hijaab and spend most of their time flirting with guys. But, that does not necessarily mean that there are not Arabic females who wear it for religious reasons. I also know many people who wear the hijaab and don't know anything about Islam even though they were raised up in an Islamic atmosphere.....(I mean more then the basics). And there are also those who wear the hijaab only because they are forced to. Other reasons besides being chaste include: they have a distorted image of why it is necessary for people to wear the hijaab. So they wear it. I also see people in my community who know they should wear a hijaab and when they see me looking at them the feel all guilty and pretend I can't see them, and run away. I'm sorry I don't really care about those people, I'm not going to go and tell everyone that so and so does not abide by rules. That's what they have to separately figure out with God. In my personal opinion, the BIGGEST reasons why a woman should wear a hijaab is so that she can 1) obey God's commandment, 2) not care about unnecessary societal pressures, 3) feel a connection with God and the religion of God, etc. For example, Sikhs wear a turban...not to show chastity or anything but as a means to become connected more to their religion, and to become more religious. Muslim woman should have a similar view/aim, aka to increase in connection to their faith and to become more religious (to go out and gain more religious knowledge), etc. Quote: From what? Lustful thoughts? From rape? Rape is a matter of dominance, not lust. You could be walking in a burqa and it wouldn't matter to the guy who wanted to rape you.
I agree with Ratri cat somewhat. I want to mention a incident that happened in Calgary though. A man got convicted for rape.........and when asked why did you do it.......he replied "because she was asking for it.....aka because she was dressed like a slut" A piece of cloth is not the only factor that stops rape and other things from happening....but is one of the factors. A man is more likely to rape a woman who turns him "on" sexually (by looking hot, etc.) then one who covers herself and acts modest. Though a modest woman can get raped too. But, personally my view is that if a modest woman who covers herself gets raped it probably has very little to do with her being alone, etc. and more to do with racist thoughts. But, in this topic I would like to mention one more thing. I learned in my sociology class that people are more likely to be murdered/raped by people who know them, and less likely to be raped/murdered by total strangers.......which are the statistics for western society. And another thing to be kept in mind is that things like rape usually occur in a high alcohol/drug environment. Quote: Mini_Angel_1994 I can't really seem to understand what is wrong with Hijab? It's extra clothing. Doesn't go with my Army uniform. I'd rather wear a beanie when it gets cold. And not deal with it while I'm life guarding in my swimsuit. I don't see the point as a non-Muslim. Except a fact is that in the Bible it is written that chaste woman should cover their heads as well.....so this was not only made as a rule for Muslim women. But, if you are not Muslim......I don't see at all why you should force yourself to wear the "piece of cloth" on your head. Quote: Mini_Angel_1994 So I did it! I know every human is a sinner, but shouldn't you just stop your sins and do whatever Allah tells you? I'd like to have a better reason why God tells me to do something, but that's just me. Just for the sake of being "modest" sounds rather shallow. Agreed. Quote: Mini_Angel_1994 Isn't he the only worthy to be worshiped? Then why don't you worship him in the way he wants? If putting a piece of cloth on my head is the best way to worship God, I'd say God is pretty shallow. Seriously, why should the Lord God care that much about a piece of cloth? He should be more concerned about what is going on inside your heart and mind, not external. Now I'm not suggesting that people should worship in the nude and whatnot, but that people shouldn't focus so much on the external while focusing. Actually we do not beleive this. Wearing the hijaab is one of the lesser lesser commandments. The HUGE commandments are "praying" and "doing good onto man/woman" Quote: Mini_Angel_1994 Just let us imagine, that if the whole girls in the world, wore hijab, wouldn't it just be the greatest thing? NO.Id feel oppressed because I haven't gotten a single good answer on why the hijab is worn. I'm not convinced it's all that amazing. Maybe for you, but not for me. My individuality would be destroyed. crying Ha ha, great answers! biggrin
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:50 am
Mini_Angel_1994 Al salamu alaykom; But the one thing I can't understand, why do girls delay it when they're like in university! Waliekum assalaam, they delay it for reasons of: wanting to fit in or their parents didnt explain to them properly why they should observing hijab. I reverted to Islam at 27 in college. There were no Muslims to teach me. I walked about uncovered and ignorant for alittle while. I didnt start wearing hijab in public until my non-Muslim classmates kindly and respectfully asked me why dont I wear hijab. I was reminded that I had to do my part. I wore my first hijab outside to get the mail. That was funny, living in a very small town, I thought the mob was going kill me. rofl However, Allah SWT started making it easy for me to wear hijab: buying decent scarves, finding Islamic literature on hijab and Tawheed (more important than hijab) and softening my heart. Even my Baptist mother said I was always her baby even if I was a Muslim. Allah commanded us to observe hijab, men and women, for He loves the modest. The point is that you are thriving to please Allah.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:01 am
alhamdulillah that is really good -- 2 wear hijab -- but what do u guys think about jilbab/abaya....
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 3:19 am
U still see girls with hijab razz
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:32 am
spottystripes alhamdulillah that is really good -- 2 wear hijab -- but what do u guys think about jilbab/abaya.... umm.. sorry, can you explain the difference of jilbab/hijab? I thought they're the same?
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:54 am
Shinigami Vayth spottystripes alhamdulillah that is really good -- 2 wear hijab -- but what do u guys think about jilbab/abaya.... umm.. sorry, can you explain the difference of jilbab/hijab? I thought they're the same? It's the same, hijab is a part of the jilbab, I think, it's like a dress But many women wear like hijab, and then a shirt and pants or something, hijab is the scarf, jilbab is the whole dress, is that right someone who knows? :'D
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:07 am
Quote: 2. I know this young lady seems to not have her thought process streight on this topic, but God commands us to be "modest." It's like the phrase, "you are what you eat," If you dress modestly, then hopefully, if your not full off hormonal changes, you will act with modesty. Hijab is not a superficial matter, though people tend to make it one, that's why i love living in the U.S.! As said before, it is a personal thing. God gave us the power of free will, and He wants to see if we will make the right choice to stay on the right path, or if we will go astray. It's a matter of having responsibitly in our actions and power. But I don't see the connection. Every day you have to wear the hijab. It's not like water, where if you don't drink water, you will die of dehydration. And there are many ways to eat healthy food and have a healthy lifestyle. There isn't just ONE and ONLY ONE. Modesty comes in all sorts of forms, I guess, and the hijab is one of them. ~shrug~ It's just I get that vibe from the Muslimahs, that the only way to be modest is to wear a veil. It doesn't help that several Muslim men have perpetrated that concept.Quote: 5. Hmm, her justification is wrong, therefore you have the wrong idea. We are not guilty if we think sexually, unless you know, you imagine porn everytime you feel aroused. I mean, I find people attractive, that doesn't mean I am getting a sin, I can't help that. It's just a matter of self control, I suppose. The Hijab is not the only thing in Islam, matter of fact it's a molecule compaired to all of the other important duties and morals one must have. Please don't judge a religion by one point and just poke at it, expecially if it is coming from a young and naive girl. Thankfully I've gotten beyond that, otherwise I would have condemned Islam a long time ago. My posts and demand for answers are for the REASONS behind the hijab. Quote: 6. First off all, pure Islam does not inforce the veil, it's only the people who have bent Islam out of shape and call it "true" that do inforce. It's a choice, if I may say it again. That's a relief to hear.
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:26 am
Acturally the hand is also private, u must only see face. Acturally, a man must not eye a woman ^^
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:45 am
The_Pathan Acturally the hand is also private, u must only see face. Acturally, a man must not eye a woman ^^ hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:20 am
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:37 pm
Whatever happened to the values of humanity, Whatever happened to the fairness in equality...
Um, I've been wearing a hijab since the age of seven ^^ and I honestly don't mind it. =D My elder sister's been wearing it since she was nine, and my younger sister (who's seven) has already started wearing it on-and-off. ^^ e my own
EDIT: Also, may I add that the hijab is totally important, I understand you guys've been debating it most thoroughly in the posts afore my own. And so is wearing the jilbab. =D Let me state an example.
Imagine two girls are walking down a street populated by a group of guys.
One of the girls is wearing a jilbab and hijab, even the face-cover. Her body shape is completely hidden, and her presence provokes no reaction from these guys.
The other girl, however, is wearing a mini skirt, a tight (revealing) t-shirt and any other form of seduction she could think of.
Now, let's just say these guys are bad, as in extremely bad. Say, they decide to rape one of these girls. WHICH one, which of these two girls do you think they would approach? The one which provokes no desire in them, or the one that's walking around half-naked?
Even if the first girl, the covered one, wasn't such an Islamic-extreme, say she was just wearing a hijab, and the other girl was just wearing jeans and whatever, but still had her face plastered in make up etc, which one would these sinners approach?
Work it out yourself. =D
-Az
☻/ /▌ / Az says hello!~
Instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity, Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity...
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:04 pm
oOo-Az-oOo Imagine two girls are walking down a street populated by a group of guys. One of the girls is wearing a jilbab and hijab, even the face-cover. Her body shape is completely hidden, and her presence provokes no reaction from these guys. The other girl, however, is wearing a mini skirt, a tight (revealing) t-shirt and any other form of seduction she could think of. 1. Not all women that aren't Muslims dress like you say. 2. Girls that dress like that WANT a reactionoOo-Az-oOo Now, let's just say these guys are bad, as in extremely bad. Say, they decide to rape one of these girls. WHICH one, which of these two girls do you think they would approach? The one which provokes no desire in them, or the one that's walking around half-naked? The guys will go after whichever is the easiest. If the girl in the mini-skirt can ditch the scene quicker, because she can sprint in less clothing, then the girl that's completely covered would be the target. Rape is DOMINANCE. You are more likely to get raped by a person who knows you more than a group of strangers, statistically at least. oOo-Az-oOo Even if the first girl, the covered one, wasn't such an Islamic-extreme, say she was just wearing a hijab, and the other girl was just wearing jeans and whatever, but still had her face plastered in make up etc, which one would these sinners approach? Oh please, you make it like all women who wear makeup cake their faces in such stuff and do it solely to attract men. Some women do cake their faces in makeup. Those are usually hideous-looking. Some don't, but there are many that look more like clowns than beautiful women. Also jeans=/=butt-tight mini skirt. I wear jeans, a t-shirt and I put a little makeup on to cover my blemishes. I have walked into some pretty seedy places in town, full of drug addicts, dealers, and lord knows what else, and have come out unscathed. It's a matter of how easy of a target you make yourself. I know when to not push my limits when traveling, like not going into certain spots because that just invites trouble. So come up with a better theory. And quit being so damn stereotypical with those of us who don't wear a hijab and DO wear makeup. Use something that isn't a logistical fallacy. =D
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:28 pm
oOo-Az-oOo Whatever happened to the values of humanity, Whatever happened to the fairness in equality...
Um, I've been wearing a hijab since the age of seven ^^ and I honestly don't mind it. =D My elder sister's been wearing it since she was nine, and my younger sister (who's seven) has already started wearing it on-and-off. ^^ e my own
EDIT: Also, may I add that the hijab is totally important, I understand you guys've been debating it most thoroughly in the posts afore my own. And so is wearing the jilbab. =D Let me state an example.
Imagine two girls are walking down a street populated by a group of guys.
One of the girls is wearing a jilbab and hijab, even the face-cover. Her body shape is completely hidden, and her presence provokes no reaction from these guys.
The other girl, however, is wearing a mini skirt, a tight (revealing) t-shirt and any other form of seduction she could think of.
Now, let's just say these guys are bad, as in extremely bad. Say, they decide to rape one of these girls. WHICH one, which of these two girls do you think they would approach? The one which provokes no desire in them, or the one that's walking around half-naked?
Even if the first girl, the covered one, wasn't such an Islamic-extreme, say she was just wearing a hijab, and the other girl was just wearing jeans and whatever, but still had her face plastered in make up etc, which one would these sinners approach?
Work it out yourself. =D
-Az
☻/ /▌ / Az says hello!~
Instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity, Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity... So girls who choose to wear something that ISN'T a Hajib or whatever are ASKING to be raped? Are you really that brainwashed?
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Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:31 am
Whatever happened to the values of humanity, Whatever happened to the fairness in equality...
If you're asking that question about the fact that I think all girls should wear a hijab, well then yes, I guess I am brainwashed. =D And proud. <_<
And uhh, didn't I state CLEARLY in the beginning that it was a mere example? If you decide to ignore facts, then I'll let you, afterall, it's your loss. Haha, also, I see it was a mistake for me to leave the story without saying what the example shows. >_> Clearly, my thought that the public have enough brains to figure it out themselves was too generous of me. =D And also, may I add, I found the way that you twisted my words impressive. stare
Anyways, sayonara!~ biggrin ☻/ /▌ /
Instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity, Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity...
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