Star Wars Weapons

[Nospai Deathous]

wow... the first weapons debate and i missed it. anyhow... yeah, large gundam-ish suits are impractical... but the only reason they're the size they are is because of the style in the time they came out. robots were usually 100 feet tall then, and tomino had to trick several toy companies about scale to make them about 60 feet tall, and in his book, which is much more realistic, the maximum height of any mobile suit is about.. 40 feet, if i remember correctly, and most are meters shorter.

i think small walkers, from about 5-10 meters tall, are practical... they're good for construction, definitely, and i think they'll honestly someday be created for construction. from there they might be applied to war, probably autonomously, mostly for field construction, though they might be armed for protection. they have an advantage of maneuverability, over tanks, and firepower, over infantry. so they're kinda...in between. they'd need anti-air weapons though, if they ever applied to actual warfare, inless hey're made for dense terrain.  

[Sol Walker]

everyone needs anti air defense. he who rules the skies rules the land.  

[Nelowulf]

Just use a goliath off of Starcraft. Probably the most practical walker one can come up with.  

[Darth_Ravage]

Training: According to the SWE, stormtroopers live in a totally disciplined, militaristic environment, and their intense dedication and training means that they cannot be bribed or blackmailed. Their marksmanship is generally very good and is sometimes superb. If you monitor their combat effectiveness in ANH, TESB, and ROTJ, you will note that they regularly score hits at ranges of more than 20 metres while shooting from the hip, which is as much as anyone can reasonably expect. One stormtrooper missed Han Solo's head by less than an inch in the ANH detention centre battle, and stormtroopers hit Leia and R2D2 with snap-shots from all the way across the clearing in ROTJ. They also inflicted heavy casualties on the Ewoks in ROTJ despite the Ewoks' advantages of surprise, terrain familiarity, large numbers of traps, small size, and camouflage colouration.

In fact, they were clearly and decisively winning the battle despite being caught unawares without any heavy weapons or preparation (there is a strong possibility that their helmet threat identification systems didn't even pick up on the Ewoks at all). The film shied away from showing most of the Ewok casualties for obvious reasons (much as early WW2 propaganda footage glossed over the magnitude of D-Day casualties), but the novelization made it quite clear that after the complacent troops were ambushed, they quickly regained their composure and began to inflict heavy casualties, despite the forested terrain (which is naturally hostile to high-tech warfare) and their poorly chosen white suits (camouflage suits are also available, but they didn't use them).

The herding actions of the Death Star and Bespin "escapes" were a greater challenge in some ways; they were asked to shoot close enough to the Rebels to rattle them without actually killing them, and they knew the Rebels would be shooting to kill. The fact that they were able to do this job without panic, and without reservation is a good indication of the level of discipline in their ranks. Their actions support the SWE's claim about their dedication and training; they always moved with absolute poise even when asked to let armed intruders escape even if it costs them their own lives (eg. the Death Star escape, or the Bespin escape), or when asked to walk into the almost certain death of a defended chokepoint (eg. breaching the Tantive IV's hull or entering the Death Star detention centre in ANH).

In conclusion, they are some of the best human (regular) soldiers ever seen.
AT-STs replaced the AT-PT, which had been lost with the Katana fleet. And goliaths would have no place for their gun ammo or their missiles, horribly impractical.And even small gundambots are much worse than the tanks, aircrafts and walkers that could be produced with the same resources and technology. The only thing they are good for is fanboyism.

The Empire has the All_Terrain anti-air walker.  

[Nelowulf]

The AT-ST did not replace the AT-PT. It can't, simply due to the sheer difference in combat profile, along with size and armament.

The PTs had not been lost to the Katana fleet, contrary to belief. the correct phrasing would be this: The majority of the Experimental PTs were lost with the Katana fleet, which was rediscovered by Thrawn.

The PT is designed to enhance a single soldier into becoming a one man army against a squad. Whereas the ST is designed for scouting, perimeter defense, and support for walkers and troops.

Not to mention, nearly the entire line of Walkers was based of the PT. It was just it never had gotten battlefield testing, and the project was abandoned, especially when losing around 70% of the weapons. Instead, the scientists went to work on repulsorcraft and treaded vehicles instead. Until the empire needed All Terrain Vehicles, walkers were near extinct. But the Empire still had a few PTs in certain facilities, though never used.



And The Goliath is quite practical. I think you were confused when I said it was practical, as I was speaking in our reality, rather than the SW universe. Ammo Storage would not be a problem. Trust me on this one. The only problem to overcome would be interfacing, which could be solved in a matter of years, and reliable hydrolics and physiokinetics.  

[Darth_Ravage]

The AT-ST did for all intents and purposes replace the AT-PT. It didn't duplicate its performance, but it assumed the basic role of a light walker and a support walker, albiet a more powerful, taller one with a crew of two.

And where would you put the ammo for the golaith's missiles? Or its Ammo? Without making it huge and therefore impractical when compared to a tank or walker? Both of which can be built with the same tech as the golaith. A fantastic tank could be built with the same resources and tech as the golaith. And it is much harder to construct an effective walker, the main advantage of the walker was its greater line of site and height, things that would not be needed if you used projectile weapons. Mecha are also much harder to keep maintained (mechanically), operate, and build than compareble tanks.  

[Darth_Ravage]

Notice the lack of room for ammo storage on the arms (the long barrels are what fire the missiles, even though they don't need barrels) or for machine gun ammo on the lower turret. also notice the exposed and easily damaged hydraulics as well as complete lack of armor protecting legs, missile launchers, and the gun turret.  

[Nelowulf]

You once again skip over my remarks... I have trouble understanding why you do such a thing...

How much ******** ammo are you plannign to take? Jesus crist man, If someone can fit 500 rounds in less than one square foot of room, then by god, you have got serious issues with space if you can't even bring enoug ammo for 2 minutes of fighting? And How many missiles are you thinking of bringing along? I'll concede that I don't like the missile system, but I'd only need to modify it to have missle pods instead, increasing the capacity up to 8.

It could carry by the looks of it 4 missiles and about 5000 rounds easy, providing it with enough to work with for a battle. Even if you reduce it to two missiles, I don't see how that makes that much of a difference in its praticality. And 5000 rounds is approximately 15 minutes of battlefield time.

In world war two, fighter planes carried 600 rounds and lasted 5 mintues of dogfighting on average. And they had up to 8 guns, all feeding of the same "bucket" so to speak. Tanks carry about 40 warheads and only about 1000 rounds for their weapon.

Belts are very compact. Most machine gun nests only have enough ammuntion for about 2 minutes of sustained fire. Yet they last for 10 minutes.

And you're going to tell me that something that large on the goliath doens't even have enough ammo for 2 minutes of fighting?



Do you have a personal vendetta against anything Non-imperical, or do you just like contradicting yourself? Because you seem to endorse the Empire, then turn around and blast anything else, no matter if its even the identical format.

Do you even own a gun? I'm going to guess you vote Democratic as well. Its nice that some of us live in a fantasy world.  

[Darth_Ravage]

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How much ******** ammo are you plannign to take? Jesus crist man, If someone can fit 500 rounds in less than one square foot of room, then by god, you have got serious issues with space if you can't even bring enoug ammo for 2 minutes of fighting? And How many missiles are you thinking of bringing along? I'll concede that I don't like the missile system, but I'd only need to modify it to have missle pods instead, increasing the capacity up to 8

.It could carry by the looks of it 4 missiles and about 5000 rounds easy, providing it with enough to work with for a battle. Even if you reduce it to two missiles, I don't see how that makes that much of a difference in its praticality. And 5000 rounds is approximately 15 minutes of battlefield time.

maybe some ammo for the single machine gun, but only two missiles? That makes the inclusion of the missile launcher a waste of space. Maybe 5000 rounds, but that is doubtful, what about the fuel, the power plant, the lack of armor, the vulnerable hydrolics?

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In world war two, fighter planes carried 600 rounds and lasted 5 mintues of dogfighting on average. And they had up to 8 guns, all feeding of the same "bucket" so to speak. Tanks carry about 40 warheads and only about 1000 rounds for their weapon.

Notice tanks have one main gun and have to make a lot of room for those 40 shots. No missiles except maybe one on the barrel. And 5 minutes of fighting is nowhere near enough for ground combat, you must be ready to fight for hours.

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Belts are very compact. Most machine gun nests only have enough ammuntion for about 2 minutes of sustained fire. Yet they last for 10 minutes.

A machine gun nest that is only good for ten minutes is worthless. They however, unlike the golaith, can be easily resupplied.

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And you're going to tell me that something that large on the goliath doens't even have enough ammo for 2 minutes of fighting?

yes, it woud have enough for two minutes of fighting with the machine gun (basically worthless for a walker, a single infantry team can carry just as much) and one volley of missiles. Not nearly enough for sustained combat, which is what is going to be the most often occurence. You really think that would last long? It fires its missiles and is virtually helpless against anything but infantry. And a single well aimed RPG could probably take out the exposed joint connecting hte legs to the body, crippling hte whole walker. And it only takes one man to fire an RPG.

quote]Do you have a personal vendetta against anything Non-imperical, or do you just like contradicting yourself? Because you seem to endorse the Empire, then turn around and blast anything else, no matter if its even the identical format.
What are you referring too? I think walkers are impractical compared to tanks. Generally speaking. but in SW, where your weapons are line of site only, you have to be really high up to get a good range. Otherwise tanks would be a better choice. And some unusual planetary conditions can make a difference too.

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Do you even own a gun?

yes

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I'm going to guess you vote Democratic as well. Its nice that some of us live in a fantasy word.

I am not an American citizen, although I tend to sympathize with the conservative ethical standards and the liberal economic policies.

Its a worthless piece of s**t. Face it. Your going to have to deal with that sooner or later. You saying that it can carry that much ammo doesn't make it so. You look at the great tank battles, days of fighting, with tanks unable to refuel and rearm for hours at a time. Two minutes of ammo would be worthless, especially when its all for a single machine gun. The thing is a waste of resources and would never be used by a real army or a sensible sci-fi army limited by ammo (something starcraft is not).  

[Sol Walker]

yeah. ok whatever.
moving on to somethint else, whats the official look of the DL-18? is it the pistol Luke took from the guard in ROTJ? or is it the one that matches the Pic in my article in OGG?  

[Darth_Ravage]

this is the DL-18  

[Sol Walker]

as is this.  

[Nelowulf]

Yes, let's please change the subject.

Ravage obviously has never handled a weapon, or realizes how little room ammo takes, or anything on the workings of weaponry. One could even debate that he has even lost sight of the original purpose of the weapon we were designing, turning it into a tank rather than a mobile AA platform. One could even go further to point out that in the truest battlefield sense, all weapons besides the missle are obsolete, and tanks, aircraft, and otherwise all weapons are thus useless as even the largest piece of scrap, and to even point out the missle is obsolete in the power of simple political decimation. And until he actually uses a weapon, and works one correctly, rather than assuming to know the tricks of the trade, I will not be convinced of otherwise.



On a note which we are more to understand (hopefully), I'm curious into the investigation upon the question of such: How do some of the pistols, such as the picture that ravage provided of the DL-18, manage to have such extensive external components that are integrally important, yet not interfere with such interfacing such as drawing from the holster, or hostile planetary conditions not messing up the necessities of the weapon, creating such things as backfire or integral decay?  

[Sol Walker]

to tell you the truth I havent a clue. Looking at Ravage's pic, one would assume it would get hung up in the holster when someone goes to draw.  

[Nelowulf]

There goes the quickdraw.

I mean, I'm not even sure what that is supposed to do in the first place. I mean a laser targeting system seems too.... old fashioned for something like that. Plus, since you have a scope on the thing anyways, its redundant.

Its like they want you to shoot your foot off.

And what's with the side thingys, they look as if they could be rubber band launchers for the lack of usable praticalility. I'd say its a safety, but its so big. I mean, the AK has a safety that big, but that's because it intereferes with the moving bolt, something that isn't present on blasters.