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 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:38 pm
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-Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:14 pm
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 pm
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XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once...
How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:16 pm
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DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep.
The traditional, long-standing definition of a goth is "an avid fan of goth-rock". It's been used commonly within the culture since it's very beginnings (or, since the term was spread around).
The "Goth is a state of mind" or whatever concept only came along in the 90's. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:47 pm
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:26 pm
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DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep.
The ol' can of worms again... to save much TL;DR, I agree with Gil.
As for the comparison to a "prep", I'll get this out of the way - I don't believe that there is such thing as a prep, outside of a prepatory school student, and even then, not all students like that are carbon copies of each other. Now having said that, how is one group of people uniformly "fake"? |
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-Resurrected Writer- Crew
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:30 pm
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-Resurrected Writer- DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. The ol' can of worms again... to save much TL;DR, I agree with Gil. As for the comparison to a "prep", I'll get this out of the way - I don't believe that there is such thing as a prep, outside of a prepatory school student, and even then, not all students like that are carbon copies of each other. Now having said that, how is one group of people uniformly "fake"?
If a Goth is, by the long-standing definition, just someone who's an avid fan of Gothic Rock, then it should be pretty damn simple for you to recognize a Prep as an avid fan of Pop and Top 40 songs. It's fake in that there's absolutely nothing to it if all you do to make yourself stand apart from the others is say "I'm this stereotype because I really like/love this music!". That's how it's fake. I've heard that you can't be a Goth unless you dress the style as well, but then does that mean that someone who doesn't necessarily dress Gothic but likes the Goth music is indeed not a Goth? Letting the music define the person is very superficial, regardless of how deep and meaningful the music may be. That's what I mean, and I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, I'm just trying to understand this. I'm rather shocked that some people define themselves solely by type of music they like, especially Goths, since they've been one of the most understanding and appreciative people I've met so far, and this is quite to the contrary oO; Forgive me if I come off as a dumbass or something, I just thought there was so much more. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:08 pm
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DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:24 pm
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:01 pm
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DioRte -Resurrected Writer- DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. The ol' can of worms again... to save much TL;DR, I agree with Gil. As for the comparison to a "prep", I'll get this out of the way - I don't believe that there is such thing as a prep, outside of a prepatory school student, and even then, not all students like that are carbon copies of each other. Now having said that, how is one group of people uniformly "fake"? If a Goth is, by the long-standing definition, just someone who's an avid fan of Gothic Rock, then it should be pretty damn simple for you to recognize a Prep as an avid fan of Pop and Top 40 songs. It's fake in that there's absolutely nothing to it if all you do to make yourself stand apart from the others is say "I'm this stereotype because I really like/love this music!". That's how it's fake. I've heard that you can't be a Goth unless you dress the style as well, but then does that mean that someone who doesn't necessarily dress Gothic but likes the Goth music is indeed not a Goth? Letting the music define the person is very superficial, regardless of how deep and meaningful the music may be. That's what I mean, and I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, I'm just trying to understand this. I'm rather shocked that some people define themselves solely by type of music they like, especially Goths, since they've been one of the most understanding and appreciative people I've met so far, and this is quite to the contrary oO; Forgive me if I come off as a dumbass or something, I just thought there was so much more.
Goth as a fan of goth-rock isn't fake at all. Under this definition, a goth is just a fan of goth-rock. It has NOTHING to do with fashion, personality, lifestyle, perspective... anything other than music. There's nothing fake about it. It's about as upfront as a term can get.
Being a goth doesn't define the person. It's just a term to define the music that person likes. Calling myself a goth doesn't define anything about me other than what music I like.
I think your frusteration with our definition is that you're still trying to apply other parts of popular culture's view on goth to the term. Now, the goth-culture does have other elements to it. But they're not the central pillar. The goth-culture has developed dozens of fashion styles, iconography, aesthetics, terminology... all part of the culture, but not requisit to the individual nor integral to the group.
Also, as a side note, goth and prep are apples and oranges. Goth is a culture that was always based around music, prep has never had anything to do with music. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:32 pm
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GilAskan DioRte -Resurrected Writer- DioRte XWraith_LordX Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. The ol' can of worms again... to save much TL;DR, I agree with Gil. As for the comparison to a "prep", I'll get this out of the way - I don't believe that there is such thing as a prep, outside of a prepatory school student, and even then, not all students like that are carbon copies of each other. Now having said that, how is one group of people uniformly "fake"? If a Goth is, by the long-standing definition, just someone who's an avid fan of Gothic Rock, then it should be pretty damn simple for you to recognize a Prep as an avid fan of Pop and Top 40 songs. It's fake in that there's absolutely nothing to it if all you do to make yourself stand apart from the others is say "I'm this stereotype because I really like/love this music!". That's how it's fake. I've heard that you can't be a Goth unless you dress the style as well, but then does that mean that someone who doesn't necessarily dress Gothic but likes the Goth music is indeed not a Goth? Letting the music define the person is very superficial, regardless of how deep and meaningful the music may be. That's what I mean, and I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, I'm just trying to understand this. I'm rather shocked that some people define themselves solely by type of music they like, especially Goths, since they've been one of the most understanding and appreciative people I've met so far, and this is quite to the contrary oO; Forgive me if I come off as a dumbass or something, I just thought there was so much more. Goth as a fan of goth-rock isn't fake at all. Under this definition, a goth is just a fan of goth-rock. It has NOTHING to do with fashion, personality, lifestyle, perspective... anything other than music. There's nothing fake about it. It's about as upfront as a term can get. Being a goth doesn't define the person. It's just a term to define the music that person likes. Calling myself a goth doesn't define anything about me other than what music I like. I think your frusteration with our definition is that you're still trying to apply other parts of popular culture's view on goth to the term. Now, the goth-culture does have other elements to it. But they're not the central pillar. The goth-culture has developed dozens of fashion styles, iconography, aesthetics, terminology... all part of the culture, but not requisit to the individual nor integral to the group. Also, as a side note, goth and prep are apples and oranges. Goth is a culture that was always based around music, prep has never had anything to do with music.
I'm not frustrated at all, just confused and trying to clear things up. I'm pretty sure I got it now, though. I just didn't think it was as shallow/simple as that, I thought there was more to it. I'm good though. I can prolly safely say that I'm in no way Gothic then, since I really don't like the older Gothic bands, like Bauhaus and Cruxshadows. Actually, I really don't like any of the official Gothic bands at all =/ Their vocalists turn me off rather quickly =[ |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:39 pm
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XWraith_LordX DioRte XWraith_LordX -Resurrected Writer- Evil kade I have heard of a lot of goth type. Gay goth Emogoth (wtfh?) Mole Goth. But a pimp goth? Perhaps. IMO, Goth applies itself 'artistically' to people in life. I don't believe that one day you can wake-up and say "I am going to be a goth". I just don't think it works like that, yeah, they can dress and act gothic. But you can normally tell those people from the 'actual' goth people. What? Dunno about you, but I can't usually sense whether or not someone knows who Joy Division or .45 Grave are. Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. Uh Dio, I didn't mean it like that. I never meant to imply that just knowing/listening to goth bands makes you a goth. Why the hell would I say that??? The people I spoke with that day didn't know who they were, I didn't say specifically who in my previous statement anyway. And, you can't just always point out who's a goth on the street, I'm just saying that it helps to figure it out if they're walking around with Cruxshadows and Clan of Xymox gear!
Sorry, I wasn't directing that at you when I posted it. I was just too lazy to quote Gil and then use part of what you said, it was mostly aimed towards him ^^; |
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:40 am
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DioRte GilAskan DioRte -Resurrected Writer- DioRte XWraith_LordX Yah...most of the time it has to be an obvious fact on someone to know for sure...like having a Joy Division T-shirt. Psh. I got a Bauhaus shirt and no one knew who the hell they were, but I did get an approving nod from an elder goth at a supermarket once... How does knowing Gothic bands make you Gothic? I don't claim to be a Goth myself, so I'm not defending myself in any way, but if that's all it takes to be a Goth, to just listen to Gothic music, then I'd say that's more fake than a Prep. The ol' can of worms again... to save much TL;DR, I agree with Gil. As for the comparison to a "prep", I'll get this out of the way - I don't believe that there is such thing as a prep, outside of a prepatory school student, and even then, not all students like that are carbon copies of each other. Now having said that, how is one group of people uniformly "fake"? If a Goth is, by the long-standing definition, just someone who's an avid fan of Gothic Rock, then it should be pretty damn simple for you to recognize a Prep as an avid fan of Pop and Top 40 songs. It's fake in that there's absolutely nothing to it if all you do to make yourself stand apart from the others is say "I'm this stereotype because I really like/love this music!". That's how it's fake. I've heard that you can't be a Goth unless you dress the style as well, but then does that mean that someone who doesn't necessarily dress Gothic but likes the Goth music is indeed not a Goth? Letting the music define the person is very superficial, regardless of how deep and meaningful the music may be. That's what I mean, and I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, I'm just trying to understand this. I'm rather shocked that some people define themselves solely by type of music they like, especially Goths, since they've been one of the most understanding and appreciative people I've met so far, and this is quite to the contrary oO; Forgive me if I come off as a dumbass or something, I just thought there was so much more. Goth as a fan of goth-rock isn't fake at all. Under this definition, a goth is just a fan of goth-rock. It has NOTHING to do with fashion, personality, lifestyle, perspective... anything other than music. There's nothing fake about it. It's about as upfront as a term can get. Being a goth doesn't define the person. It's just a term to define the music that person likes. Calling myself a goth doesn't define anything about me other than what music I like. I think your frusteration with our definition is that you're still trying to apply other parts of popular culture's view on goth to the term. Now, the goth-culture does have other elements to it. But they're not the central pillar. The goth-culture has developed dozens of fashion styles, iconography, aesthetics, terminology... all part of the culture, but not requisit to the individual nor integral to the group. Also, as a side note, goth and prep are apples and oranges. Goth is a culture that was always based around music, prep has never had anything to do with music. I'm not frustrated at all, just confused and trying to clear things up. I'm pretty sure I got it now, though. I just didn't think it was as shallow/simple as that, I thought there was more to it. I'm good though. I can prolly safely say that I'm in no way Gothic then, since I really don't like the older Gothic bands, like Bauhaus and Cruxshadows. Actually, I really don't like any of the official Gothic bands at all =/ Their vocalists turn me off rather quickly =[
As I point out in my labels thread, though, there is no solid and universally agreed upon definition of goth. This is simply the longest running.
Check out the "Labels" sticky to find various definitions of "goth", as well as various traits those definitions may exhibit. |
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:12 pm
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-Resurrected Writer- If there was one, I think the notoriety would spread too quickly. With there likely being few-to-no pimps who happen to be goth, the police likely wouldn't have to look too hard to find the goth pimp, if they were tipped. It's possible, but it would not be advantageous for the pimp to stand out. ... Not that I support prostitution rings.
No, see, that's backwards, since the pimp is goth, he blends in with the night.
Like a... I dunno, a vampire or something, not that those have anything to do with goths, so it's a good analogy. |
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