Repeating history

[the grey seer]

they say they will do somthing but it never happens  

[WeHappyFew]

of course, i don't remember where or when i heard it, but there's a quote saying that the day that politicians fear most is the day we actually pay attention to what's happening.....honestly, some americans don't even know where iraq is!  

[the grey seer]

ironic we dont know where it is but lets go there and kill them

there's an old saying


PEOPLE SHOULD BE AFRAIDE OF THEIR GOVERMENT IT'S THE GOVERMENT WHO SHOULD FEAR IT'S PEOPLE
the movie v 4 vendetta also used this qoute  

[Doctor_Orc]

V for Vendetta is an excellent movie, even with most of the anarchic elements it had in the comic book toned down. The message became a bit wider this way, and a lot easier to digest, it wasn’t in indoctrination, but an eye opener.
One of the main elements in the movie was the rule the state had.
Well, a country, a state, a people is created by a group of individuals with a common goal. They all work and strive to attain it. The needs of the many are greater that the needs of the few, so people, by their own free will are able to abdicate certain luxuries for the common cause.
To maximize the completion, the mission of that people, a leader, which represents them, is chosen. A lot of the original royal houses were knights or nobles that were, let’s say, elected by the other nobles.
But, little by little some wealth is gained and retain. The individual starts to get greedier and greedier. When there was little to nothing, he was more opened to help other, but now, the needs of the few are greater than the needs of the many. At this point, when a certain goal is about to be reached, that some start to get comfortable.
And with this something changes in this country/people. Since everyone in now more concerned with their own good, they abdicate certain powers to the elected representative. The guidance to that initial goal is now on the hands of a few that distribute jobs and functions to the many. This is something that happens slowly, but steadily.
One of the only ways to reunite the people is with a grand disaster.
Just look at the history of America. There were three major events that were able to unite all the people: Alamo, Pearl Harbor and 9/11. All of those were direct attacks by alien powers to innocent/undefended/unprepared Americans that died like martyrs and heroes.
Some resent research points that the Pearl Harbor was known, and that the US major patents let it happen precisely has a way of uniting the people in outrage and have their complete commitment in the war. And with this in mind, all those 9/11 conspiracy theories may need a recheck.
Also, in these events, the people is so shaken up that they are able, in panic to deliver, to give, and to abdicate certain rights to the “power that be” in exchange for safety. And this safety is more of their lands and personal possessions that of their own life…  

[the grey seer]

greed is a powerful ally but an strong enemy aswell  

[WeHappyFew]

how could greed become an ally?  

[the grey seer]

u can manipluate others 4 their desire 4 an item or goal ,i do it a thousand times  

[Hine-Keha]

aoi no mizu

you're right to help others we must first help and heal ourselves. the people in Iraq were OK like it's been mentioned, and we just had to mess it up, i mean the old bush knew this was going to happen if the US went in and he did the wright thing by staying out, but his stupid son had to go in because he did not like the thought of having some people say that his family was too soft. stare

If I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that the Iraqis were OK with their dictator coming through their towns and killing any one who looked at him wrong or did not praise him enough? No, the Iraqis were not OK, they did not like what was going on but they were powerless. This is what happens when the government takes defenses away from the people. They were afraid to say the wrong thing because someone might kill them and their family. Yes, they were just dandy.
In addition, the group that was/is the 'enemy' has sworn to never give up the fight until America converts to Islam. If we leave them alone then they will certainly, without a doubt, be back on our door steps trying to bring us down. Unless we elect a spineless president who will sell us away to avoid needless fighting and bloodshed.
~~~~~~~
People don't have time to be up to date about every issue. That is why the forefathers adopted a representative democracy. Any of you want to tell me you know every issue that is going through the office of the major officials we elect.

I've heard some valid points, but there is never, and will never, be one perfect answer. Both Hobbs and Locke were correct about their view of the relationship between the government and its people. You have to balance how much you are really willing to give for the right to live in the state and how much you will allow the government to go before it is time to be replaced. Luckily, we can change our leader every four years (unless he croaks, then sooner).

It seems the response to power is self loathing. Somehow, despite all the other atrocities in the world right now, America is the armpit of the Earth because we have power and would like to keep it that way.  

[WeHappyFew]

Hine-Keha

aoi no mizu

you're right to help others we must first help and heal ourselves. the people in Iraq were OK like it's been mentioned, and we just had to mess it up, i mean the old bush knew this was going to happen if the US went in and he did the wright thing by staying out, but his stupid son had to go in because he did not like the thought of having some people say that his family was too soft. stare

If I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that the Iraqis were OK with their dictator coming through their towns and killing any one who looked at him wrong or did not praise him enough? No, the Iraqis were not OK, they did not like what was going on but they were powerless. This is what happens when the government takes defenses away from the people. They were afraid to say the wrong thing because someone might kill them and their family. Yes, they were just dandy.
In addition, the group that was/is the 'enemy' has sworn to never give up the fight until America converts to Islam. If we leave them alone then they will certainly, without a doubt, be back on our door steps trying to bring us down. Unless we elect a spineless president who will sell us away to avoid needless fighting and bloodshed.
~~~~~~~
People don't have time to be up to date about every issue. That is why the forefathers adopted a representative democracy. Any of you want to tell me you know every issue that is going through the office of the major officials we elect.

I've heard some valid points, but there is never, and will never, be one perfect answer. Both Hobbs and Locke were correct about their view of the relationship between the government and its people. You have to balance how much you are really willing to give for the right to live in the state and how much you will allow the government to go before it is time to be replaced. Luckily, we can change our leader every four years (unless he croaks, then sooner).

It seems the response to power is self loathing. Somehow, despite all the other atrocities in the world right now, America is the armpit of the Earth because we have power and would like to keep it that way.

well, can you say that right now there is less bloodshed than before? you said that it would take a spineless president to stop bloodshed. It's not being spineless, it's being considerate, every day people are massacred, and if what you say is true about their dictator, doesn't that mean that we can exit now that he's dead? maybe if we would have left back then we would still be in hot water but not as much as now. But your absolutely right about the point that americans can't know EVERY issue. In fact there are problems we don't even KNOW about. But at this point your right, there is no perfect answer, but we have to decide, "what will do us LESS harm?". But the longer we stay, the angrier they get. While we're there they've barely made attacks on the homeland. But we can't stay forever, one day we're going to have to leave and they will come stronger than ever. So isn't it better to leave now? before more simple citizens convert to terrorists because of a dead family member. If you look back the similarities between the vietnam war and the iraq war, there are more than one...  

[the grey seer]

no matter what the situation u must always c the reprocussion any action will do eve kindness  

[WeHappyFew]

true, there is a quote that says "whatever you do echoes into eternity", that's a scary though isn't it? but as is said in romeo and juliet, "Virtue itself turns vice, being misapplied,and vice sometime's by action dignified."  

[the grey seer]

really  

[Tsubaki Aoi]

i never meant to say that Iraq was good before or that it was okay, but that now that the US is in Iraq it can't back out or the country would go into complete chaos, and the more we stay in there the more people think we want to take over and switch to the other side. eather choise to go in or not would have messed the US in the end, and it is.  

[the grey seer]

it part of an complex conspirisy  

[Tsubaki Aoi]

that has been said before.