Demon Dispelling?

[WitchyBoy]

PhoenixMoonStar

This is why my TV is used for playing video games and watching anime... and the occasional movie.

I boycott cable. I really -really- boycott 'reality' TV.

To quote a wise man: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own".

Adam Savage! Myth busters! i love that show but hey if you boycott cable to each his own.  

[PhoenixMoonStar]

WitchyBoy

PhoenixMoonStar

This is why my TV is used for playing video games and watching anime... and the occasional movie.

I boycott cable. I really -really- boycott 'reality' TV.

To quote a wise man: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own".

Adam Savage! Myth busters! i love that show but hey if you boycott cable to each his own.

I heart Adam and Jamie. That's one of the few shows I watched when I did have cable. That, and the HGTV channel.

I think cable anymore is mostly about 'shock value' and I'm not really interested in having someone market it to me as 'reality'. It was one of the things that really pissed me off about "The Blair Witch Project". It was a decent enough movie... but the fact they tried to hype it as "This really happened, OMG" pissed me off.

Yeah, I'm strange. This is a proven fact. All my friends agree I'm odd. My hubby says he wouldn't have married me if I were normal. So.. it's all good. xd

And..... now to try and get the topic back on track....

Personally, I don't exactly believe in -demons- in the christian sense of the word either. I do believe in malicious entities, and given the ancient greek outlooks on entities like the furies, who could (depending on the source quoted) either possess people and make them go insane, or simply whisper around them constantly with the same effect... I believe that it is possible to be 'possessed' by something evil, as well as good. I believe that was one of the differences in 'evoke/invoke' was that you allow another force to take control of your body.

If anything can be let in, then likewise, anything can be driven out. The process for doing so shouldn't be limited to just one religion, but should be something anyone with enough training and faith can accomplish. Faith being a key point, but training being necessary for proper dealings with the force, so as to ensure no one gets harmed and such.

There was a suggestion in a forum I was in about five years ago, that the idea of 'possession' came from the use of invocations from the pagan religions. I never followed up on that line of thought, but it might be something for you to check into.

I also remember back in college when I was researching the Celts for a paper, that there was some mention of the Celtic warriors, and even the Germanic tribes, using invocations before battle.... Berserkers, I believe invoke the spirit of the Bear, and allow it to take over. I'm rusty... I've been away from the material for at least five years, if not more like seven... so feel free to do your own research. But, the point I'm trying to hint at, is nt all 'possessions' can be bad... but imagine if you are a devote Christian, and your son or daughter started 'invoking spirits'... you might run out to get them exorcised. To someone of a different faith, it may not matter if you are invoking the spirit of Gaia or the spirit of Hel... demons are all in the way someone looks at it and labels it.  

[Dragoness Arleeana]

Phoenix informed me of this topic and I thought it sounded a bit interesting, so I thought I'd come and put my two cents in.

When people think of a Christian posession they usually think of the bad kind. Well, not ALL Christian posessions are bad actually. For example, Pentacostals believe that the Holy Ghost posesses them and makes them speak in tounges. (it's freaky to watch, but they believe in it). Also, many Christian faiths have had people claim to be possesed by Jesus.

Also, if we want to look at another culture that we assume has "demons" we can look at the Japanese culture. Did you know that the word "demon" is not part of their language? It's actually a translation error. In Japan all things are "spirits", no matter if they are good or evil.

So, as you can see, not all possesions are considered bad, even within the differing Christian faiths. As to expelling a demon, most Christian faiths believe that if you have been possesed by an evil spirit that you have done something sinful to open the door for that to happen, and therefor you are no longer capable of expelling it yourself. Most other culures and religions believe in something along that line, or believe that if you are strong willed enough you can do it yourself.  

[[LadyRaven]]

Some arguments could even be made that the writer's of the bible were 'possessed'. After all, they say that "God spoke through them" or "used them to write His Word".

And I suppose, in some strange way, Mary was 'possessed' when she concieved Jesus. Some people may even argue that was a time when an exorcisim should have been used. ninja sweatdrop

I'm not sure I know enough about Christianity to make any further references. But those were fun ^_^  

[WitchyBoy]

its a very fine line between possession and divine inspiration i mean where do we draw that line, somewhere before holy water and crucifixes and somewhere after a holy crusade.  

[Dragoness Arleeana]

The line isn't that thin actually, people these days just don't do any research so they don't know the difference.

Possesion is where a supernatural entity (including gods) enters your body, for whatever reason.

Divine inspiriation is where an angel, or god, visits you and thus gives you inspiriation.

Also, the "crusifix" (the cross) was around LONG before Christianity was, so I don't see how you're relating it to a crusade.  

[PhoenixMoonStar]

WitchyBoy

its a very fine line between possession and divine inspiration i mean where do we draw that line, somewhere before holy water and crucifixes and somewhere after a holy crusade.

I'm not sure I know what you are trying to say. Somewhere prior to holy water and crucifixes, and yet after crusades? How are you relating these to possession and divine inspiration?

Do you mean that Holy water and crucifixes go with possession
And Holy Crusades go with divine inspiration?

Because I can't support the last statement. I've taken enough History classes (at the college level, not high school) to know that there was nothing divine behind holy crusades. Most of them were nothing more than "turf wars" between "rival gangs". You have Christianity, who is a growing religion. It comes up against the Muslim empire. The muslims have followers, money, power, land. Christianity needs all of those. It needs to expand. So in go the 'knights' which are little more than hired thugs, and you have them issue a degree. Convert, or die. Those who convert are spared. Those who don't, are killed. The Church gains new followers, the lands and riches of the dead, and with fewer Muslims, power. There was no divine inspiration involved. It was political. It was bloody. It was often underhanded and vial.

If you could, perhaps clarify your statement, so that I can better understand the point which you are making.  

[Devil_Heart_Cry]

Wow, this is really helping me understand more about wicca and other religions! Thank you for commenting. blaugh

Now, back to what we were talking about, I also agree with the fact that there are "good" posessions and "bad" posessions. Now, Pheonix's posts are amazing. She obviously know alot about the history of religions and I am dying to know more about the history of such things!

Another reason I started this was to find a way to protect myself from the "bad" spirits in this world. Can wicca be used to defend or fight away from anything? I do know about little spells to protect your home, and other spells to create a barrier around yourself, but there has to be other, bigger things that people know that can stop a spirit.  

[WitchyBoy]

what i mean is its a very close i mean that one a dream one man started a crusade that killed thousands in the name of god whewre others were killed for hearing the voice of god case in point joan of arc.  

[PhoenixMoonStar]

Beatrice_McDumples

Wow, this is really helping me understand more about wicca and other religions! Thank you for commenting. blaugh

Now, back to what we were talking about, I also agree with the fact that there are "good" posessions and "bad" posessions. Now, Pheonix's posts are amazing. She obviously know alot about the history of religions and I am dying to know more about the history of such things!

Another reason I started this was to find a way to protect myself from the "bad" spirits in this world. Can wicca be used to defend or fight away from anything? I do know about little spells to protect your home, and other spells to create a barrier around yourself, but there has to be other, bigger things that people know that can stop a spirit.

Thank you. I have my moments. I actually was majoring in History, and almost had my bachelors, when I had to stop. Damn money issues. But I've spent a good deal of time studying things, and I was raised Catholic, and know several priests... so I've got a fair bit of understanding. Not to say I'm always going to be right. But.. thanks. ^_^


I had this whole large speech about how to protect yourself from spirits, but my computer ate it. I'm too lazy tonight to re-work it just now. But the best advice I can give is that, if you don't leave yourself open to being attacked by a spirit, you shouldn't really have to worry. Being aware of your surroundings, and your personal health and feelings, can save you more than any chant or potion or spell. If you feel ill-at-ease somewhere, then don't stay. If something makes you uncomfortable, listen to that gut feeling. If you aren't messing around with things you shouldn't be, aren't inviting spirits over for a chat or cup of tea, and aren't toying around with energies and ouija boards, then you should be fine.

I hope that helps. I'm sure other people can give you spells and chans and meditations to help as well.

Witchyboy- One last thought for you. Joan of Arc is probably a bad example. She was supported by the church for only as long as they needed her, but once it became clear to the church she held more power with the people than their own clergy, they turned against her, and branded her a witch. Again, it was a political move. Women were not, under any circumstances, to hold power or position like men. The fact she went into battle, was over-looked only so long as it suited their purpose. Hearing voices is common in the Catholic faith, as well as several others. Not to mention, having visions... where you see... well, spirits, for lack of a better term. Many of the Saints of the Catholic church were noted to have either heard the angels or other saints speak to them, or to have had visions of the. Also, Joan didn't hear the voice of God. It was the voice of a Saint. I believe Saint Catherine, though I' would have to look it up to be sure.

I can certainly see what you're poking at... For some it's labeled one thing, for others, it's another. However, the dividing line, more often than not, rests with the people who apply the label. The church, in their "wisdom" applies it how they see it best benefiting them, and they feel free to change it as they need. Again, take Joan. Her visions and voices were divine inspiration only so long as it benefited the needs of the church. Once the needs were filled, and she served no purpose, the re-labeled her as a witch.

What makes one person's application of a label (any label for that matter) more appropriate or more valid than another? I detest labels for that very reason. Sure, they make things easier on some people,but in the long run, they are always biased by the person doing the labeling.

But, I'll shut up about labels... that's not really the point of the topic.


xp  

[PhoenixMoonStar]

Oddly enough, I found some articles on this on one of my rss feeds, and thought I would share them for you guys to read at your leisure.

http://www.topix.net/religion/pagan-wiccan/2008/02/exorcisms-more-dangerous-than-pagan-beliefs?fromrss=1

http://www.topix.net/religion/pagan-wiccan/2008/02/pagans-lash-out-at-church-over-exorcism-blame?fromrss=1


Have fun with those. Figured since we were talking bout it, they might make for good reading. I haven't actually read them yet. *bad me* but I'll try and get to it at some point. I've been helping a friend with a divorce and moving (them, not us), as well as working on stuff... so I haven't had the time.  

[WitchyBoy]

meh these things are complicated matters.  

[Dragoness Arleeana]

It's really not all that complicated. Joan of Arc's gifts were considered good so long as she helped the church, but when she started gaining power they considered it evil. It's social, it's ALL social, it always HAS been. The deffinitions and terms are quite simple and quite different, it's just considered divine inspiration when it is good and then said to be possession when bad, because people don't take the time to d their research and find out that posession isn't nesicarily a bad thing. Christianity has altered the meanings of so many things that people ust blindly believe them without bothering to find out for themselves.  

[[LadyRaven]]

I quote song lyrics, only because they seem to fit.

"Who made up all the rules?
We follow them like fools.
Believe them to be true,
Don't care to think them through.

And it's ironic too...
'Cause what we tend to do,
Is act on why they say
And then it is that way.

Do you see what I see?
Why do we live like this?
Is it because it's true, that ignorance is bliss?
Who are they? Where are they?
How can they possibly know all this?
I'm sorry, so sorry, I'm sorry it's like this
I'm sorry, so sorry, I'm sorry we do this"



For the full song, the artist is Jem, the album is Finally Woken, and the song is They.  

[Cariaith]

There are many ways in Wicca to fend of evil beings from your house/circle
- Making a line of Seasalt/red brick dust at all the entry points of the protected space
- Sweeping your broom 3 times, and putting it next to the entry
- Burning fresh sage, or Olibana, (preferably with incantation)

if possessed:

- Blessed water
- Expelling/banishing spells
- Or if you're strong enough, your own personal powers