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Are gays ok?
  yes
  NEVER! THEY ARE EVIL!!
  i don't know
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Slick Southpaw


Feral Faun

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:45 pm



السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

Well, Mr. Emperor, I came to the following conclusion about this continuing going back and forth.
1. I am arguing in a secular way. You are arguing in a religious way. Either way, we're not going to see eye to eye because the basis for our arguments come from two very different perspectives.

2. You seriously know your stuff when it comes to Islam and homosexuality. I'm really impressed on your knowledge of the faith in relation to this. Heck, I have yet to see decent arguments from the Christian side except the usual "LOL GOD HATES GAYS" crap. At least you are up front about it. Catholicism just dances around it, saying "love the sinner hate the sin" and such...

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:48 pm


Christianity view of Homosexuality:

Quote:

God’s condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear—He opposes it in every age.
# In the patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28 )

# In the Law of Moses (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13)

# In the Prophets (Ezekiel 16:46-50)

# In the New Testament (Romans 1:18-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8 )

Why does God condemn homosexuality? Because it overturns God’s fundamental design for human relationships—a design that pictures the complementary relationship between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:18-25; Matthew 19:4-6; Ephesians 5:22-33).

Why, then, have homosexual interpretations of Scripture been so successful at persuading so many? Simple: people want to be convinced. Since the Bible is so clear about the issue, sinners have had to defy reason and embrace error to quiet their accusing consciences (Romans 2:14-16). As Jesus said, “Men loved the darkness rather than the Light, [because] their deeds were evil” (John 3:19-20).

As a Christian, you must not compromise what the Bible says about homosexuality—ever. No matter how much you desire to be compassionate to the homosexual, your first sympathies belong to the Lord and to the exaltation of His righteousness. Homosexuals stand in defiant rebellion against the will of their Creator who from the beginning “made them male and female” (Matthew 19:4).

Don’t allow yourself to be intimidated by homosexual advocates and their futile reasoning—their arguments are without substance. Homosexuals, and those who advocate that sin, are fundamentally committed to overturning the lordship of Christ in this world. But their rebellion is useless, for the Holy Spirit says, “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; cf. Galatians 5:19-21).

So, what is God’s response to the homosexual agenda? Certain and final judgment. To claim anything else is to compromise the truth of God and deceive those who are perishing.

As you interact with homosexuals and their sympathizers, you must affirm the Bible’s condemnation. You are not trying to bring damnation on the head of homosexuals, you are trying to bring conviction so that they can turn from that sin and embrace the only hope of salvation for all of us sinners—and that’s through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Homosexuals need salvation. They don’t need healing—homosexuality is not a disease. They don’t need therapy—homosexuality is not a psychological condition. Homosexuals need forgiveness, because homosexuality is a sin.

I don’t know how it happened, but a few decades ago someone branded homosexuals with the worst misnomer—“gay.” Gay used to mean happy, but I can assure you, homosexuals are not happy people. They habitually seek happiness by following after destructive pleasures. There is a reason Romans 1:26 calls homosexual desire a “degrading passion.” It is a lust that destroys the physical body, ruins relationships, and brings perpetual suffering to the soul—and its ultimate end is death (Romans 7:5). Homosexuals are experiencing the judgment of God (Romans 1:24, 26, 28 ), and thus they are very, very sad.

First Corinthians 6 is very clear about the eternal consequence for those who practice homosexuality—but there’s good news. No matter what the sin is, whether homosexuality or anything else, God has provided forgiveness, salvation, and the hope of eternal life to those who repent and embrace the gospel. Right after identifying homosexuals as those who “will not inherit the kingdom of God,” Paul said, “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11).

God’s plan for many homosexuals is salvation. There were former homosexuals in the Corinthian church back in Paul’s day, just as there are many former homosexuals today in my church and in faithful churches around the country. Do they still struggle with homosexual temptation? Sure they do. What Christian doesn’t struggle with the sins of their former life? Even the great apostle Paul acknowledges that fight (Romans 7:14-25). But former homosexuals sit in biblical churches throughout the country praising their Savior, along with former fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, coveters, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers. Remember, such were some of you too.

What should be your response to the homosexual agenda? Make it a biblical response—confront it with the truth of Scripture that condemns homosexuality and promises eternal damnation for all who practice it. What should be your response to the homosexual? Make it a gospel response—confront him with the truth of Scripture that condemns him as a sinner, and point him to the hope of salvation through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Stay faithful to the Lord as you respond to homosexuality by honoring His Word, and leave the results to Him.


Does it makes more sense, or should I bring another view to it?

Emperor of Mistekreuz


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:43 pm


It is stated in the Hadith of the Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W) that homosexuals and sodomy should be condemned.

There was this story in the Hadith wherein two homosexuals were caught sodomizing each other.

When the news reach the Nabi (S.A.W) and his Sahabah these two men were gravely punished to set as an example that homosexuality is against the Will of Allah.

Allah created a man and a woman. I know this may sound truistic. But it's the truth. A truth that can never be altered.

Allahu Akbar.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:09 pm



السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

IF we only argue the terribleness about homosexuality from a religious perspective, does that mean that morality comes only from faith?

what about if someone was atheist? How would you explain to them that you think homosexuality is wrong...

@ Emperor

*nod* thank you for the Christian version. However, I wouldn't accept the Leviticus passage, mostly because no Christian actually follows the prescribed practices in that particular book.
Because it also talks about how you musn't mix fabrics and wear them....and a bunch of other things that Christians think are archaic and belong only in Judaism....I still find it funny that they still quote from that passage when they think that the Old Testament is no longer valid (as in actually practicing what is being told about following a particular lifestyle)



Slick Southpaw


Feral Faun


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:58 am


i don't usually debate on morality.

nevertheless, what is moral and what is immoral is culturally determined.

if you're a Muslim then homosexuality for you is bad.

I'm saying that homosexuality is bad because that's what my culture and my religion tells me so.

But on the perspective of those people who are atheist homosexuality is alright and is moral.

it depends on what is culturally taught.

it's called ethnocentrism. regarding your culture as something that is superior than that of the others and it is what must be followed.

i learned this in our sociology class. biggrin
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:30 am


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore
i don't usually debate on morality.

nevertheless, what is moral and what is immoral is culturally determined.

if you're a Muslim then homosexuality for you is bad.

I'm saying that homosexuality is bad because that's what my culture and my religion tells me so.

But on the perspective of those people who are atheist homosexuality is alright and is moral.

it depends on what is culturally taught.

it's called ethnocentrism. regarding your culture as something that is superior than that of the others and it is what must be followed.

i learned this in our sociology class. biggrin

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته


3nodding
there is also cultural relativism, which is the notion that there are no universal morals that everyone abides by.
Example: Culture A cannot determine that the practices of Culture B (such as drinking alcohol on a regular basis) are morally wrong, bet to guide because they are following different sets of morals, and there is no universal standard.

Morality: the effort to guide one's conduct by reason-that is, to do what there are the best reasons for doing-while giving equal weight to the interests of each individual who will be affect by what one does.

I'm taking an Ethics class right now. It's really interesting! biggrin



Slick Southpaw


Feral Faun


The Dead Terrorist Achmed

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:57 pm



This topic always makes me cry, Ratri!

crying

I have been praying to Allah for such a long time to make my feelings for men to go away. I pray more than my mother or father....they would be devastated if they knew. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an honor-killing in the mix.

Why can't I change? I've fasted and prayed to Allah intensely. I can't help it...when my friends talk about the girls that they like, I feel like I am all alone.
Does Alllah hate me for being gay?
I know what it says in the Qu'ran. It kills me every time I read it now...
why can't I be a good Muslim and be homosexual??? crying crying crying
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:14 pm


Imad Jibril

This topic always makes me cry, Ratri!

crying

I have been praying to Allah for such a long time to make my feelings for men to go away. I pray more than my mother or father....they would be devastated if they knew. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an honor-killing in the mix.

Why can't I change? I've fasted and prayed to Allah intensely. I can't help it...when my friends talk about the girls that they like, I feel like I am all alone.
Does Alllah hate me for being gay?
I know what it says in the Qu'ran. It kills me every time I read it now...
why can't I be a good Muslim and be homosexual??? crying crying crying


Quote:
why can't i be good Muslim and be homosexual???


You proberly can, if you become normal. Your telling people you are gay! That's stupid!!!!!! Just forget your gay. And if you are still acting too much like a girl your just not strong enugh to come to paradice. twisted burning_eyes scream gonk

Quote:
This topic makes me cry, Ratri crying

lol Your toooooooooo much after Ratri. Can't you say: This topic makes me sad sad question

Zaakii


The Dead Terrorist Achmed

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:37 pm


Zaaki
Imad Jibril

This topic always makes me cry, Ratri!

crying

I have been praying to Allah for such a long time to make my feelings for men to go away. I pray more than my mother or father....they would be devastated if they knew. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an honor-killing in the mix.

Why can't I change? I've fasted and prayed to Allah intensely. I can't help it...when my friends talk about the girls that they like, I feel like I am all alone.
Does Alllah hate me for being gay?
I know what it says in the Qu'ran. It kills me every time I read it now...
why can't I be a good Muslim and be homosexual??? crying crying crying


Quote:
why can't i be good Muslim and be homosexual???


You proberly can, if you become normal. Your telling people you are gay! That's stupid!!!!!! Just forget your gay. And if you are still acting too much like a girl your just not strong enugh to come to paradice. twisted burning_eyes scream gonk

Quote:
This topic makes me cry, Ratri crying

lol Your toooooooooo much after Ratri. Can't you say: This topic makes me sad sad question

Forget I'm gay? Yeah right. Deny that Allah exists. If you can do that, then I can deny that I am a homosexual. It is easier said than done.
This topic makes me cry because all I see is stupid bigotry just because of some written words! I don't see the logic of it. You people just accept the rules of Islam without knowing the reasons for it. What good is that? If you're just obeying out of the fear of being punished, then you're being as silly as a child.
Following the rules because you understand them and see the connection between them and Allah's righteousness and mercifulness is a lot harder and more fulfilling in Islam.


Yes, I am a flaming Muslim...but Allah loves me!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:46 pm


Imad Jibril
Zaaki
Imad Jibril

This topic always makes me cry, Ratri!

crying

I have been praying to Allah for such a long time to make my feelings for men to go away. I pray more than my mother or father....they would be devastated if they knew. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an honor-killing in the mix.

Why can't I change? I've fasted and prayed to Allah intensely. I can't help it...when my friends talk about the girls that they like, I feel like I am all alone.
Does Alllah hate me for being gay?
I know what it says in the Qu'ran. It kills me every time I read it now...
why can't I be a good Muslim and be homosexual??? crying crying crying


Quote:
why can't i be good Muslim and be homosexual???


You proberly can, if you become normal. Your telling people you are gay! That's stupid!!!!!! Just forget your gay. And if you are still acting too much like a girl your just not strong enugh to come to paradice. twisted burning_eyes scream gonk

Quote:
This topic makes me cry, Ratri crying

lol Your toooooooooo much after Ratri. Can't you say: This topic makes me sad sad question

Forget I'm gay? Yeah right. Deny that Allah exists. If you can do that, then I can deny that I am a homosexual. It is easier said than done.
This topic makes me cry because all I see is stupid bigotry just because of some written words! I don't see the logic of it. You people just accept the rules of Islam without knowing the reasons for it. What good is that? If you're just obeying out of the fear of being punished, then you're being as silly as a child.
Following the rules because you understand them and see the connection between them and Allah's righteousness and mercifulness is a lot harder and more fulfilling in Islam.


Yes, I am a flaming Muslim...but Allah loves me!

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you change your colour of your script? And i don't understand the qur'an but i belive what it says lol Cause it's by Allah(swt) you know?

I have a question. You wana be muslim, and be normal? Ore you wana be non-muslim and be gay? Gay+Muslim is not a combination! It's like connecting sky+The letters æøå...

Zaakii


The Dead Terrorist Achmed

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:50 pm


Zaaki

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you change your colour of your script? And i don't understand the qur'an but i belive what it says lol Cause it's by Allah(swt) you know?

I have a question. You wana be muslim, and be normal? Ore you wana be non-muslim and be gay? Gay+Muslim is not a combination! It's like connecting sky+The letters æøå...

Why? because it's pink? Pink is supposed to be a very calming color.

The Qu'ran was written by people who had oral traditions thousands of years after the Prophet died. Allah gave the Word to Gabriel, who then gave it the Prophet...who is only human.

Humans make mistakes. No one is perfect. I think the passage of time and oral tradition lead to what the Qu'ran is today.

Why should Allah care about my sexual orientation? There is so much more to life than simply liking the opposite gender.


Yes, I am a flaming Muslim...but Allah loves me!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:26 am


Imad Jibril
Zaaki

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you change your colour of your script? And i don't understand the qur'an but i belive what it says lol Cause it's by Allah(swt) you know?

I have a question. You wana be muslim, and be normal? Ore you wana be non-muslim and be gay? Gay+Muslim is not a combination! It's like connecting sky+The letters æøå...

Why? because it's pink? Pink is supposed to be a very calming color.

The Qu'ran was written by people who had oral traditions thousands of years after the Prophet died. Allah gave the Word to Gabriel, who then gave it the Prophet...who is only human.

Humans make mistakes. No one is perfect. I think the passage of time and oral tradition lead to what the Qu'ran is today.

Why should Allah care about my sexual orientation? There is so much more to life than simply liking the opposite gender.


Yes, I am a flaming Muslim...but Allah loves me!

Cause Allah(swt) cares. And the qur'an was not written by people trough tousands of years.

Zaakii


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:02 am


Islam condemns homosexuality as stipulated in the Qur'an and in the Hadith.

That's it. No more. No less.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:32 pm


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore
Islam condemns homosexuality as stipulated in the Qur'an and in the Hadith.

That's it. No more. No less.

Is homosexuality a handicap ore a evil thing?

Zaakii



Slick Southpaw


Feral Faun

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:59 am


Prof Albus PWB Dumbledore
Islam condemns homosexuality as stipulated in the Qur'an and in the Hadith.

That's it. No more. No less.

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

What, because gay sex is not procreative?

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