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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:38 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:12 pm
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Familiar Soul BeXlieXve Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours). ...What? Muslims can't adopt children? wow, i figured they could eek
Of course they can, Hadrat Ali (PBUH) had adopted sons from what I can remember, Such as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr.
Who said Adoption wasn't allowed? |
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:19 pm
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Haydar the Truthful Familiar Soul BeXlieXve Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours). ...What? Muslims can't adopt children? wow, i figured they could eek Of course they can, Hadrat Ali (PBUH) had adopted sons from what I can remember, Such as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. Who said Adoption wasn't allowed?
Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours).
no clue what the ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours) part means but yeah...thats it. |
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:37 pm
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Familiar Soul Haydar the Truthful Familiar Soul BeXlieXve Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours). ...What? Muslims can't adopt children? wow, i figured they could eek Of course they can, Hadrat Ali (PBUH) had adopted sons from what I can remember, Such as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. Who said Adoption wasn't allowed? Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours). no clue what the ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours) part means but yeah...thats it.
Why would adoption not be allowed? It aids children, Is aiding others haram now? Seriously that isn't correct and if it is then that doesn't show Islam correctly. |
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:42 pm
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Haydar the Truthful Familiar Soul Haydar the Truthful Familiar Soul BeXlieXve ...What? Muslims can't adopt children? wow, i figured they could eek Of course they can, Hadrat Ali (PBUH) had adopted sons from what I can remember, Such as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. Who said Adoption wasn't allowed? Mini_Angel_1994 Adoption is not allowed as well. ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours). no clue what the ( Do not name the baby with the same last name as yours) part means but yeah...thats it. Why would adoption not be allowed? It aids children, Is aiding others haram now? Seriously that isn't correct and if it is then that doesn't show Islam correctly.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.
Maybe we just misunderstood what Mini Angel was saying.
I'm sure she'll explain it to us when she can. |
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:25 pm
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BeXlieXve Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either. Maybe we just misunderstood what Mini Angel was saying. I'm sure she'll explain it to us when she can.
From what I've understood it has to deal with a confusion of heredity. gonk
I got this from an ex-Muslim who wrote a paper concerning Islam and adoption:
Quote: Reason is Allah does not like that any human calls a son of another human as his own son! Why? Because that may cause some confusion of heredity! Not only that, so called Islamic adoption does not provide any share of property to the adoptee, i.e. adopted parents are not allowed to give any share of his property (inheritance) to his adopted son. Because, that practice of noble gesture will be un-islamic!
(if you care to read the whole paper). It contains Qu'ranic quotes concerning adoptions:
Quote: (Sura al-Ahzab 33:40): "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but [he is] God's Messenger and the Seal of the Prophets. God is Aware of everything!" (Sura al-Ahzab 33:37): "We married her off to you so that there would be no objection for believers in respect to their adopted sons' wives once they have accomplished their purpose with them. God's command must be done!"
source: Adoption and Islam
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:31 pm
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I forgot to add a muslim site that also explains this!
Here's the quote:
Quote: A.2. As you are well aware, adoption is forbidden in Islam when it means that a child is considered to belong to a particular family when he or she does not. In non-Muslim countries, an adopted child is treated as the son or daughter of the adopting parents, with no difference to distinguish such a child from an ordinary son or daughter. This is not acceptable in Islam. However, if a family looks after an orphan and take care of him or her until they are teenagers or adults, that family receives rich reward from God. In this case, the child retains its original family name and does not adopt the name of the family bringing it up. This is all explained in the Qur’anic verse that states: “Never has God endowed any man with two hearts in one body; and He has never made your wives whom you may have declared to be ‘as unlawful to you as your mothers’ bodies’ truly your mothers, so, too, has He never made your adopted sons truly your sons. These are but words you utter with your mouths, whereas God speaks the truth. It is He alone who can show the right path. Call them (i.e. your adopted children) by their real fathers’ names: this is more equitable in God’s sight.But if you do not know who their fathers were, call them your brethren in faith and your friends. You will incur no sin if you err in this respect, but only with regard to your deliberate action. God is indeed much forgiving, all-merciful.” (33: 4-5)You see from these verses that what is really forbidden is a deliberate attempt to make a child one’s own, when that child belongs to other parents. The family in this case did not intend any such move, but perhaps needed to give the child their family name for easier dealings with official procedure. Since the child and the family know her situation, and no one claims real parentage, there is no deception or fraud involved. Since the child does not know the name of her real parents, she cannot now be called by her real father’s name. She should be considered in the position of a sister in Islam to the family. She should treat the family name she was given as a favor given to her, which she does not have to change, but she should not claim belonging to the family by blood.
source:
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islam/Islamic subjects/2004 subjects/March/Women in the State of Ihraam, Adil Salahi.htm
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:34 am
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:54 am
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Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier..
When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam.
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:14 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam.
Oh I see now...........
So technically adoption is allowed.....but you are not allowed to change the last name of the child. I was wondering about that.......
It was driving me crazy.......I read that adoption wasn't allowed in the commentary I was reading.........
But I also read many verses that said we should take care of orphans.....
I'm still a bit confused on this issue and am going to go ask a scholar |
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:50 pm
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Pheonixia Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam. Oh I see now........... So technically adoption is allowed.....but you are not allowed to change the last name of the child. I was wondering about that....... It was driving me crazy.......I read that adoption wasn't allowed in the commentary I was reading......... But I also read many verses that said we should take care of orphans..... I'm still a bit confused on this issue and am going to go ask a scholar
ohhhhhh....well i dont see how not changing the last name can hurt anyone so no big ^^ |
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:57 pm
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Familiar Soul Pheonixia Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam. Oh I see now........... So technically adoption is allowed.....but you are not allowed to change the last name of the child. I was wondering about that....... It was driving me crazy.......I read that adoption wasn't allowed in the commentary I was reading......... But I also read many verses that said we should take care of orphans..... I'm still a bit confused on this issue and am going to go ask a scholar ohhhhhh....well i dont see how not changing the last name can hurt anyone so no big ^^
I could see it causing a tiny bit of distance.
But, like I said before, even families that are blood-related can have different names, so it shouldn't be a big deal.
But okay. I think I understand now. |
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:22 am
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BeXlieXve Familiar Soul Pheonixia Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam. Oh I see now........... So technically adoption is allowed.....but you are not allowed to change the last name of the child. I was wondering about that....... It was driving me crazy.......I read that adoption wasn't allowed in the commentary I was reading......... But I also read many verses that said we should take care of orphans..... I'm still a bit confused on this issue and am going to go ask a scholar ohhhhhh....well i dont see how not changing the last name can hurt anyone so no big ^^ I could see it causing a tiny bit of distance. But, like I said before, even families that are blood-related can have different names, so it shouldn't be a big deal. But okay. I think I understand now.
In that time, Arabs considered families a very big issues, and they even call themselves I'm the son of my father, for example, My father's name is Tim ( it's really not ) so I'm Angel the daughter of Tim. It's really important that people know who your father is. And what family you come from. I'm sure there's a kind of wisdom behind it. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:03 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam.
Well I understand that now, I thought you were saying Adoption wasn't allowed at all which obviously wouldn't be right. Thanks for clarifying. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:07 pm
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Haydar the Truthful Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, what Ratri said was totally correct. And let me make it simplier.. When Prophet Muhammad arrived to Madina, a mother came and put her son with Prophet Muhammad. So he can teach him what is Islam and so the child can learn from him things. But then people started calling him, the son of Muhammad. ( Zaid bin Muhammad, aka Zaid the son of Muhammad ) Which he isn't! And this is a huge deal because Muhammad ( As we all know ) is the last prophet that Allah will send. And he has the last message from Allah. So then when Muhammad will die, they will put Zaid bin Haretha as a prophet, because as we know, king's son becomes king. So Allah sent a messenger to Prophet Muhammad and told him, that you don't have any son, and people shouldn't call Zaid as your son. So the rules of adoption, which we don't call adoption, we have something called, kafl al yateem aka taking a responsibilty of an orphan, anywayz, the rules of taking responsibilty of an orphan is that the last name shouldn't be as yours, and you should tell him that I'm only taking responsibility of you and taking care of your money until you becomes an adult. When the child become an adult you won't have to take responsibility of him anymore. That's how kafl al yateem ( taking responsibility of an orphan ) goes in Islam. Well I understand that now, I thought you were saying Adoption wasn't allowed at all which obviously wouldn't be right. Thanks for clarifying.
I mean, I understood the point of a daughter getting less than a son for inheritence, but this just confuses me. I don't see how it's a lie to make an orphan part of your family and treat the child as your own flesh and blood until you cannot help them anymore. |
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