So, I'm definitely considering Wicca, and...

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I dunno. Reading stuff like Ravenwolf you have to start all over again. You have to unlearn what you learned. Okay, if that's the only book in your entire town, and that's the only thing you can have access to, then sure, read it with your big salt shaker handy. But if there's other options, discard the crap in favour of the good stuff.

Sure, many of us started with shite books. No shame there; when you don't know good from bad, anything is appealing. I started with Ravenwolf and some Murray-pushing twit I forget the name of. And yeah, it got me started, but if I had had the Higgenbotham's book on Paganism or similar I would have gotten a massive headstart compared to what I did have. Ravenwolf and her ilk give you a deficit that you have to compensate for. If there's someone to tell you what books are crap and what are good, you can start off right and then read the crap books later. I know I would have loved to have someone point out the good from bad when I was starting out. To begin with, you don't want to wank about with crap. You want to actually learn. The reading of crap can come later.

And stuff like fidelity to one's gods and honesty to oneself and others is important to me. I really dislike people who jump in and out of religion, write only for the money, claim religions they have little to do with in order to make a buck etc. Bloody Horne does it for the fame and the money and it angers me. She's claimed to be an atheist and yet writes books on "Wicca", so what do I owe her?

Ravenwolf claiming what she writes about as Wicca is neither theory nor belief, it's a blatant lie. Her books aren't even about Neo-Wicca, they're diluted Neo-Paganism with little respect for culture or deity.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

doistu

I think all books are worth reading...I mean how would we compare theories and beliefs if there was nothing to compare with.

The first book I got was a Fiona Horne book and it inspired me no end.

I have moved away from some of her stuff now but I feel some of it was valid.

I've found all books contribute something, if only ideas.

I wouldn't say that all books are worth reading and contribute something. Case in point: Blum's books on the runes. I wouldn't say his theories are worth comparing with because anyone who has read the Rune Poems and knows anything on the lore and history of the ancient Norse know that what he writes is crap. It would be like someone offering up the theory that an apple is actually a large fruit with a green shell/rind and pink, juicy insides; this theory is based on never actually seeing or tasting an apple, but thinking that the green and pink fruit was a better fit regardless.

I mean, why waste your time, money, and brain space learning things that are out-right wrong? Especially if you just have to unlearn it later, you'd be just as well off not buying the book and reading it - save yourself time and money.  

[moe majesty]

Ultraviolett1127

KIRA: Hey no problem! It's really incredibly easy to collect misinformation as fact. There's a lot of crap out there. I'm glad we could help steer you in the right direction wink

And yea, Eclectic Neo-pagan is a mouthful, but most just call themselves Eclectic.

Ugh, I've noticed. It's kind of sad, really, how much crap is out there. =/

Eclectic... that works. Funny word, though. xD;

Sanguina-chan

Sorry we jumped down your throat a little. We have a tendency to make assumptions, you know? No real reflection on you.... just too many people who ask similar questions who end up being "omg Hekate is a crone!" twits. (I think I've been spending far too much time on M&R lately... I've started to become a bit blunt.)

--- « soul's resonance »

•

Oh, no, I think I needed to have my throat jumped down (lawl, that sounds funny). If I'm wasn't properly straightened out like that, I might've still had some of that bad info in my head. What y'all said prompted me to be back and read more and re-read to make sure I had facts and names straight. I am pretty much sure of myself thanks to that.

And on the topic of bad books, I wouldn't touch them - you might not think so, but the ideas still worm into your head, and thash just not good. =| •

« can you hear it now? » ---

 

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some of that stuff does have a tendency to worm its way in. And sometimes you find yourself holding onto stuff you know is wrong just because you've heard it so many times.  

[Esselean]

Well personally Fiona Horne has inspired me heaps

GO THE AUSSIES!!! (even if they are a little eccentric)  

[doistu]

I understand the not wasting time and money thing on books when there are better ones out there but I wouldn't change my experience for the world.

Yea I had to learn lots of new stuff and get rid of some old stuff but with no help from anyone else I think I've done well to get where I am today. I still have Horne's and Ravenwolf's books to remind me of when I was just starting out.

In hindsight, they offered me something I had never found before and like with Christianity I questioned it every step of the way until I came to other books, more reliable sources etc.

So I don't see how these books have caused me any harm.  

[too2sweet]

As long as you are able to recognize the valid info from the "yuck", then there is no harm. But there are those out there that will take what is contained in those books and hold them as "gospel", That is where the issue comes in, and why more often than not we would rather tell someone to avoid them all together, than risk them not seeing the "yuck" for what it is.  

[doistu]

I totally agree too2sweet. Those that take it as gospel need to be corrected but they way I see this happen, especially on the net, can be soooo darn brutal.

You see kids getting ripped apart by holyer than thous and it can't be fair that way...?

I'd rather gently coax newbs to the right conclusion rather than bombard them with information, telling them their wrong and idiotic...

No...? lol  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Aye, I agree to a point and this is why I don't spend much time in M&R wink Most of the time people are misinformed rather than silly. But some people go batshit when you tell them Wicca isn't actually an ancient religion or that no. whatever their great-grandmother practised, it wasn't Wicca.

I dunno though. I mean, as far as some of these authors go... they're just not ethical people. They wouldn't know Wicca if you beat them to death with it. At least Cunningham and Uncle Bucky were initiated; whatever Ravenwolf was initiated into it wasn't Wicca, given that her stated lineage appears to go through Seax-Wica somehow. Why would you write so many books about something you have so tenuous a connection to? Why sell lies as fact?  

[doistu]

I go to the M&R for a good old laugh hehe. I barely post anymore though.

I feel somewhat obligated to try and help newbs as I once was one with no help at all...the proplem I find is that most of the people in M&R aren't actually wiccans/witches/pagans etc. Most consider themselves atheists and thats fine but...

...they're hardly tolerant of others hehe  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

The sad thing is when the non-Pagans know more about Wicca than the self-proclaimed Wiccans seem to xd I'm thinking of writing up an official drinking game for Wicca posts on the ED, if there isn't one already.

Someone mentioned Celtic Wicca around Cu, it was hilarious.  

[doistu]

Oooo. I think I've been lurking on that thread. It was indeed hilarious.

I found a funnier one about native americans sharing beliefs with Celts...Cu seems upset hehe  

[Esselean]

too2sweet

As long as you are able to recognize the valid info from the "yuck", then there is no harm. But there are those out there that will take what is contained in those books and hold them as "gospel", That is where the issue comes in, and why more often than not we would rather tell someone to avoid them all together, than risk them not seeing the "yuck" for what it is.

I pick and choose bits of ANY book. I never take everything one person says as gospel. I just that the stuff i believe and toss the rest blaugh  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

mqstalker

I'm sorry I'm just jumping in here...so...being Wiccan involves being initiated by a coven and becoming part of it.
And not having that done means you're an eclectic pagan?

All this time, I thought I was Wiccan. Incorrect that I was.


*hides*

I really should read more around here...I haven't been on that long, so yeah. I should get to reading more.

If I may be so bold as to ask...what books would you recommend me reading? Like, specifically? I am completely interested in learning much more than I already know. which isn't much to begin with...*sigh*

Hey it's okay; there's a lot of crap out there that makes Wicca seem that it's whatever you want it to be. And when you're just beginning and don't know what's what, it's easy to take in the crap as fact.

There really aren't any books out there on actual Wicca since most of it is oath-bound and not available to non-initiates. There's the Wiccan FAQ in the ED: M&R that's pretty helpful. Amber and Jet mailing list is also a good place to learn a bit.