Are tools really required?

[mechanical kitsy]

If you want to get technical about the tools, I think I can name most of them...
your altar of course, it sort of counts.
chalice (cup)
pentacle
athame
sword
(and i'm told sometimes the sword and athame are the same thing, but sometime they use two different blades, the sword is obviously bigger)
boline
wand
cauldron (or whatever you use)
scourge
cords


razz but thats all the fancy pants stuff
or not  

[mechanical kitsy]

RubyLight

Would a modified butter knife work?

I used an insanely dull black handled (steak?) knife once upon a time.
I don't know how it got that dull, but it was the only one I was allowed to have at the time.
I don't have one right now though...  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

xXx kitsy xXx

If you want to get technical about the tools, I think I can name most of them...
your altar of course, it sort of counts.
chalice (cup)
pentacle
athame
sword
(and i'm told sometimes the sword and athame are the same thing, but sometime they use two different blades, the sword is obviously bigger)
boline
wand
cauldron (or whatever you use)
scourge
cords


razz but thats all the fancy pants stuff
or not

a pentacle is a symbol not a tool and is not necassary.
you use a sword or a wand or a staff or an athame lol  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

xXx kitsy xXx

If you want to get technical about the tools, I think I can name most of them...
your altar of course, it sort of counts.
chalice (cup)
pentacle
athame
sword
(and i'm told sometimes the sword and athame are the same thing, but sometime they use two different blades, the sword is obviously bigger)
boline
wand
cauldron (or whatever you use)
scourge
cords


razz but thats all the fancy pants stuff
or not

a pentacle is a symbol not a tool and is not necassary.
you use a sword or a wand or a staff or an athame lol

A full collection of tools will include both sword and athame as there are little differences in usage.

A pentacle is a tool. It has a use. You use it for stuff. I onno what Wiccans use it for, but it totally has an entry in Neal's book.  

[too2sweet]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

a pentacle is a symbol not a tool and is not necassary.

The pentacle (a disk or plate of metal or wood inscribed with a pentagram). symbolizes earth, yes, but it's also used to help consecrate items, and can also be used as a focus point during castings and other ritual workings. In the same way as the other main Altar tools, though it is a symbol, it is also very much a tool.  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

I have really been pondering this and i think it really comes down to how you practice yourself, as long as your intention is clear you could use anything you want.  

[too2sweet]

It would depend on exactly what you are practicing. In the case of eclectic paths, maybe. For specific paths (like Wicca) correct practice is an essential component, so you can't just do whatever you like.

Also, many symbols have very deep ties to the cultures that they come from. It is disrespectful in the extreme to misappropriate such things, just because you feel like it. Symbols that have represented the same thing for long periods of time, have very powerful energies of their own, and to simply decide that now it means something else, probably isn't going to work out so well. At the very least it's not going to have the same sort of power that it would have if you were using it in the proper manner.  

[Morgandria]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

every one seems to know so much about the athame but no one has mentioned the boline.

if you have one i personally think you need the other.

an athame is a black handled, 9" long, doubble sidded ritual knife that is used to perfom rituals. it should only cut air or a cake it a hand fastening and to whittle a wand or staff (not that you need one if you have an athame)

and a boline is a white (or green) handled knife that should be used for you practical work such as cutting herbs or carving candles. bolines are less specific but aslong as it is used for only wicca (or whatever it is that you believe) and not household cooking it should be fine.

As I started earlier: an athame is really a very specific tool, and the name refers to a particular type of knife that is consecrated in a particular manner in Wicca. Many other paths include ritual knifes, but I hesitate to call them athames. An athame is never cuts anything - not cords, not cakes, and certainly not acting as a carving knife. That is entirely what a bolline is for: cutting herbs, trimming candles, cutting cords and threads.

A staff/wand has nowhere near the same function as an athame. You can't use them interchangebly - or perhaps I should say, you shouldn't try to use them interchangebly. You will get a different result than perhaps you want.

Since you saw fit to bring up the bolline: It traditionally is white handled (not sure where you got green from), and it is -the- cutting tool. The bolline is traditionally the purview of the Handmaiden. She wears it as part of her regalia when serving as such with a coven. Many people seem to prefer a crescent-shaped blade, I'm assuming because of the symbolism of the crescent and the association with the Handmaiden. It doesn't really matter if it's curved or straight, though.

I have no idea why anyone outside of Wicca would need an athame or bolline, though.

xXrainbowrazorsXx

I have really been pondering this and i think it really comes down to how you practice yourself, as long as your intention is clear you could use anything you want.

As sweet said, not in Wicca. Certain tools are required to perform certain rites, and cannot be performed without them. You can't change all the ingredients in a pound cake and still expect the same result. It's the same with Wicca - you can't change the methods and materials and still expect it to be Wicca.

Wicca has a concept called "ritual resonance". It's not unique to Wicca, though: Any sort of rite or practice that has been performed in the same form, for a period of time, builds up a sort of residual energy that exists independantly, outside your ritual or practice. When you perform those acts - say, casting a circle, you are connecting to that energy, and it amplifies what you're doing. Using the proper tools, saying the traditional calls - all of them connect you to the ritual resonance of Wicca.

It takes time to build up resonance. And it helps if there's more than one person. Wicca has ritual resonance simply because we do use the same things, in the same way, between many many groups of Wiccans.

Every time you do something on your own, with whatever tool, you are building a ritual resonance - but it's not going to be nearly as strong as that built up by hundreds of covens over most of a century. Especially if you change the tools you use every time, or you use different calls every time, or you don't use tools for their proper use. It takes a lot longer, and you won't be drawing on, or adding to, anyone's established resonance.

I guess it depends if you care. For me, tapping into the ritual resonance of Wicca is a huge part of my enjoyment of my path. When everything "locks" into place I am part of something much bigger than myself, and the sense of connection is awesome. I've taken part in rituals for various different groups, and I can always tell the difference between rites with ritual resonance, and rites without.  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

Morgandria

xXrainbowrazorsXx

every one seems to know so much about the athame but no one has mentioned the boline.

if you have one i personally think you need the other.

an athame is a black handled, 9" long, doubble sidded ritual knife that is used to perfom rituals. it should only cut air or a cake it a hand fastening and to whittle a wand or staff (not that you need one if you have an athame)

and a boline is a white (or green) handled knife that should be used for you practical work such as cutting herbs or carving candles. bolines are less specific but aslong as it is used for only wicca (or whatever it is that you believe) and not household cooking it should be fine.

As I started earlier: an athame is really a very specific tool, and the name refers to a particular type of knife that is consecrated in a particular manner in Wicca. Many other paths include ritual knifes, but I hesitate to call them athames. An athame is never cuts anything - not cords, not cakes, and certainly not acting as a carving knife. That is entirely what a bolline is for: cutting herbs, trimming candles, cutting cords and threads.

A staff/wand has nowhere near the same function as an athame. You can't use them interchangebly - or perhaps I should say, you shouldn't try to use them interchangebly. You will get a different result than perhaps you want.

Since you saw fit to bring up the bolline: It traditionally is white handled (not sure where you got green from), and it is -the- cutting tool. The bolline is traditionally the purview of the Handmaiden. She wears it as part of her regalia when serving as such with a coven. Many people seem to prefer a crescent-shaped blade, I'm assuming because of the symbolism of the crescent and the association with the Handmaiden. It doesn't really matter if it's curved or straight, though.

I have no idea why anyone outside of Wicca would need an athame or bolline, though.

xXrainbowrazorsXx

I have really been pondering this and i think it really comes down to how you practice yourself, as long as your intention is clear you could use anything you want.

As sweet said, not in Wicca. Certain tools are required to perform certain rites, and cannot be performed without them. You can't change all the ingredients in a pound cake and still expect the same result. It's the same with Wicca - you can't change the methods and materials and still expect it to be Wicca.

Wicca has a concept called "ritual resonance". It's not unique to Wicca, though: Any sort of rite or practice that has been performed in the same form, for a period of time, builds up a sort of residual energy that exists independantly, outside your ritual or practice. When you perform those acts - say, casting a circle, you are connecting to that energy, and it amplifies what you're doing. Using the proper tools, saying the traditional calls - all of them connect you to the ritual resonance of Wicca.

It takes time to build up resonance. And it helps if there's more than one person. Wicca has ritual resonance simply because we do use the same things, in the same way, between many many groups of Wiccans.

Every time you do something on your own, with whatever tool, you are building a ritual resonance - but it's not going to be nearly as strong as that built up by hundreds of covens over most of a century. Especially if you change the tools you use every time, or you use different calls every time, or you don't use tools for their proper use. It takes a lot longer, and you won't be drawing on, or adding to, anyone's established resonance.

I guess it depends if you care. For me, tapping into the ritual resonance of Wicca is a huge part of my enjoyment of my path. When everything "locks" into place I am part of something much bigger than myself, and the sense of connection is awesome. I've taken part in rituals for various different groups, and I can always tell the difference between rites with ritual resonance, and rites without.

alot of wicca is not specific depending on what path you follow whether it be the gardnerian way or the alexandrian way or whatever way you practice.

and I was taught that you can use an athame, wand or your power hand to direct energy.

many "traditional" witches will NEVER take metal into the circle, secondly anything you cannot accomplish with your finger you will not ba able to achieve with an athame (the real witches handbook pg136)  

[Morgandria]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

alot of wicca is not specific depending on what path you follow whether it be the gardnerian way or the alexandrian way or whatever way you practice.

and I was taught that you can use an athame, wand or your power hand to direct energy.

many "traditional" witches will NEVER take metal into the circle, secondly anything you cannot accomplish with your finger you will not ba able to achieve with an athame (the real witches handbook pg136)

Actually, all of Wicca is very specific on what you use and how you use it. That's what makes Wicca an orthopraxy, and it's also what makes things that don't follow the orthopraxy Not-Wiccan.

There aren't that many traditions of Wicca with proper lineage. Just Gardnerian, Alexandrian, and the Central Valley Wicca traditions.
Outside of that, the many styles and 'types' of Wicca are just Ecclectic Neo-Paganism misnamed.

Directing energy with whatever you want is absolutely fine, for a witch. Witchcraft =/= Wicca. Wicca has different standards for practice, and since Wiccan practice is oathbound you're not going to know them unless you're an initiate. What I have said about the athame still holds true, for Wicca.

I would also like to point out that while Kate West may be an initiated Wiccan, her books cannot contain or teach Wicca - doing so would violate her oaths sworn before coven and Gods. She is free to comment on witchcraft, but as I said before - the two terms are not synonymous.

I have no idea who the "traditional" witches she is commenting on are, or if she means Wiccans, or what. It's not a clear statement. The website for the Children of Artemis, which she seems to be affiliated with, also muddies the two terms together.

I am uncertain as to whether or not she's an initiate of lineaged traditions or not, since her bio only states she's a High Priestess with "experience" in different traditions. That could mean anything from she's an initiate in those trads, to she's been a guest of different covens a few times. I don't recognize the Children of Artemis as a tradition of Wicca. As such, I hesitate to recognize her as an authority on Wicca.

As for the finger: correct. If you can't direct and control energy by yourself, a tool will not help you. That fact, however, does not change Wiccan usage of the athame as a ritual tool. It's part of the orthopraxy, and the standards of practice that define what Wicca is.

For what it's worth, I'm an initiated Gardnerian. MY very traditional High Priestess, who is British, and a 3rd degree in both Alexandrian and Gardnerian Wicca, uses an athame, made of metal, every single time she casts. She could use any number of things, including no tools at all - but that's not the point.  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

Morgandria

xXrainbowrazorsXx

alot of wicca is not specific depending on what path you follow whether it be the gardnerian way or the alexandrian way or whatever way you practice.

and I was taught that you can use an athame, wand or your power hand to direct energy.

many "traditional" witches will NEVER take metal into the circle, secondly anything you cannot accomplish with your finger you will not ba able to achieve with an athame (the real witches handbook pg136)

Actually, all of Wicca is very specific on what you use and how you use it. That's what makes Wicca an orthopraxy, and it's also what makes things that don't follow the orthopraxy Not-Wiccan.

There aren't that many traditions of Wicca with proper lineage. Just Gardnerian, Alexandrian, and the Central Valley Wicca traditions.
Outside of that, the many styles and 'types' of Wicca are just Ecclectic Neo-Paganism misnamed.

Directing energy with whatever you want is absolutely fine, for a witch. Witchcraft =/= Wicca. Wicca has different standards for practice, and since Wiccan practice is oathbound you're not going to know them unless you're an initiate. What I have said about the athame still holds true, for Wicca.

I would also like to point out that while Kate West may be an initiated Wiccan, her books cannot contain or teach Wicca - doing so would violate her oaths sworn before coven and Gods. She is free to comment on witchcraft, but as I said before - the two terms are not synonymous.

I have no idea who the "traditional" witches she is commenting on are, or if she means Wiccans, or what. It's not a clear statement. The website for the Children of Artemis, which she seems to be affiliated with, also muddies the two terms together.

I am uncertain as to whether or not she's an initiate of lineaged traditions or not, since her bio only states she's a High Priestess with "experience" in different traditions. That could mean anything from she's an initiate in those trads, to she's been a guest of different covens a few times. I don't recognize the Children of Artemis as a tradition of Wicca. As such, I hesitate to recognize her as an authority on Wicca.

As for the finger: correct. If you can't direct and control energy by yourself, a tool will not help you. That fact, however, does not change Wiccan usage of the athame as a ritual tool. It's part of the orthopraxy, and the standards of practice that define what Wicca is.

For what it's worth, I'm an initiated Gardnerian. MY very traditional High Priestess, who is British, and a 3rd degree in both Alexandrian and Gardnerian Wicca, uses an athame, made of metal, every single time she casts. She could use any number of things, including no tools at all - but that's not the point.

i didn't mention witchcraft.

So my particular faith in wicca say that i can use what ever i want in a ritual(within reason of course) then it is fine.


(orthopraxy: Correct practice or action; Right belief combined with right practice, with the emphasis being on the latter)

and because you don't recognise a particular branch of wicca does not make the statment totally viable. the whole wiccan community needs to agree with you or the statment is only you opinion.

and if she can use a number of things then that is not very specific, meaning that there is other ways to practice the craft.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

i didn't mention witchcraft.

Morg mentioned it because she felt you may have been confusing Wicca with witchcraft in general, or using the terms synonymously or something. Wicca is a specific religion, and has certain ways of doing things.

Quote:

So my particular faith in wicca say that i can use what ever i want in a ritual(within reason of course) then it is fine.

If you practised Wicca - regardless of whether you do or not - you would use an athame of metal, always. You could use other things when you practised other religions or other forms of witchcraft, but when you practised Wicca, you would use the correct ritual tools of Wicca.

Quote:

and because you don't recognise a particular branch of wicca does not make the statment totally viable. the whole wiccan community needs to agree with you or the statment is only you opinion.

The whole Wiccan community does agree with her. Ritual tools are the same across all traditions of Wicca; a particular Wiccan might prefer to use a different tool, and would do so in their outside practice, but when they were practising Wicca, their personal preference would not factor in. They would use the appropriate tool, because that is how Wicca is practised.

Quote:

and if she can use a number of things then that is not very specific, meaning that there is other ways to practice the craft.

What is "the craft" in this situation? If it is witchcraft, then sure, use anything. If it is Wicca, then no. There's one way to practise.  

[xXrainbowrazorsXx]

I see what you both are saying but i believe otherwise and thats is totally fine.

i think more peope are inclined to believe you over me as i am not wiccan. (i thought i should point out)

I think that as long as what you believe is pure and you intentions are good then how you prctice is up to you.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

xXrainbowrazorsXx

I think that as long as what you believe is pure and you intentions are good then how you prctice is up to you.

That is true of witchcraft. That is true of eclectic Paganism. But that is not true of Wicca.  

[Blame Hoffmann]

This is something I am a little iffy about. I asked this same question in a wiccan forum i am in. Because I myself was wondering if the all of the tools as well as candles were a MUST to study wicca. I mean what if you are poor? Or don't have any access to these things? Can you not communicate as well with the god and goddess as someone who has all those things?


The answer I got from seasoned wiccans is that all you really need is yourself an open mind and some visualization.