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 Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:37 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 Lol, I have absulotly no idea what you guys are talking about, but this is an answer for Absurd.. When Prophet Muhammad raised a nation, and he had many people turning into Islam, it was time to make an islamic country for himself. So he started teaching them about Islam. The ( Moshrekeen ) What we call the people who take another God other than Allah, were always against Muhammad, they used to torture the people back in their city, Prophet Muhammad wanted to set them free. And for your information, people who used to be with Prophet Muhammad, left all of their things and money, their houses, back in the city, and went with Prophet Muhammad to Yathreb ( the other city where Prophet Muhammad went ) because The Moshrekeen were so harmful, and they couldn't do their duty to Allah in there because Moshrekeen were torturing them. So it's basically to tell them: Get off our backs!! It's defending themselves only! Won't you defend yourself? Even though you were a peacemaker, then everyone will think you are weak!
you don't fight and steal and set raids for the sake of saving yourself. Muhammad did that. He stole, he fought, all in the name of your god. That is not what bringing peace means. That is not a message of peace.
Are you going to call someone like Ghandi weak? The all-powerful British military left after him and his NON VIOLENT actions. He spread a message of peace without fighting.
Someone who used non-violence to stand up to oppression? The Christian martyrs didn't fight back; rather they left their fate up to their god. The man Jesus didn't fight; he didn't kill, he didn't steal to feed his followers...rather he relied on the goodness of humanity to feed him. And put his faith in this god.
You want something else? Martin Luther King was a civil rights advocate, a religious man too! He didn't tell people to go and fight violently for their rights; he wanted peaceful protests. Look how far he got.
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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:20 am
Bismillah ---
Dear o' Dear Absurd, you have a really twisted idea about Prophet Muhammad!! When did he steal during wars? You shouldn't judge about something you don't know!! I've been learning about prophet Muhammad for 14 years of my life, applying what he does, and I'm proud of it!! And I don't steal, because as a muslim, I apply everything he said and did. He cut the arm of the stealer!! I'm really getting mad because you're accusing Prophet Muhammad, the message holder, the peace maker, the most wonderful person, the reason why the Sky and Earth were created ( Peace Be Upon Him )!!!
Ghandi's policy, did it last until now?? Ghandi is a great person, I don't have anything against him, he did great, but only for his period of time!
--- Salam!
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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:57 am
Mini_Angel_1994 Bismillah ---
Dear o' Dear Absurd, you have a really twisted idea about Prophet Muhammad!! When did he steal during wars? You shouldn't judge about something you don't know!! I've been learning about prophet Muhammad for 14 years of my life, applying what he does, and I'm proud of it!! And I don't steal, because as a muslim, I apply everything he said and did. He cut the arm of the stealer!! I'm really getting mad because you're accusing Prophet Muhammad, the message holder, the peace maker, the most wonderful person, the reason why the Sky and Earth were created ( Peace Be Upon Him )!!!
Ghandi's policy, did it last until now?? Ghandi is a great person, I don't have anything against him, he did great, but only for his period of time!
--- Salam!
When I bring something like that up, I do it because I've read it in history, I've heard about it. I don't do it to slander, to insult, but because I've studied it. Leading a raid is stealing, even if its to help your followers. Do you wish for more sources? Should I quote hadiths?Quote: Ishaq:288 “When the Qur’an passage concerning this matter was revealed, and Allah relieved Muslims from their fear and anxiety, Muhammad took possession of the caravan and prisoners. The Quraysh sent him a ransom and the Prophet released the prisoners on payment. When the Qur’an authorization came down to Muhammad, Abd Allah and his Companions were relieved and they became anxious for an additional reward. They said, ‘Will this raid be counted as part of the reward promised to Muslim combatants?’ So Allah sent down this Qur’an: ‘Those who believe and have fought in Allah’s Cause may receive Allah’s mercy.’ Allah made the booty permissible. He divided the loot, awarding four-fifths to the men He had allowed to take it. He gave one-fifth to His Apostle.” Ishaq:288 “Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle.” Tabari VII:29/Ishaq:289 “The Apostle heard that Abu Sufyan [a Meccan merchant] was coming from Syria with a large caravan containing their money and their merchandise. He was accompanied by only thirty men.” Ishaq:289 “Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, ‘This is the Quraysh caravan containing their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as prey.”
What I was bringing up about Ghandi is that you seem to have an issue with nonviolent people bringing about change. I still stand by my original line of thought: how can you be a religion of peace when your own prophet fights and leads wars?
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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:39 pm
Quote: Bismillah,
Thanks for your answer, and I think you're right, basically it's the same Allah we're both worshipping, but the thing is that you people think that Jesus is the son of Allah. And Allah didn't take a wife or children. So you're religon is different in only one prospective.
, Salam! Quote: Hm, maybe I should explain. When we say that Jesus is the Son of God, we don't mean it in a literal, biological sense (after all, we're called the children of God and how could that be literal and biological). Instead the word shows the relation between God the Son and God the Father. Because God never changes, we know that this relationship always existed. And also, this explains how God could be a loving God even before He created us. Now, you might wonder why we have "three gods." We don't. We believe in one God like you, but we believe that God is more complex than a human. I've heard it compared to a lamp. God the Father as the lamp itself, God the Son as the light coming from the lamp, and God the Holy Spirit as the relationship between the lamp and the light. Three things within one. I'd say this perspective changes everything. =P Nah, I get the whole one God thing. My dad believes in it and thinks something is wrong with the bible. That is probably where I got my views from. No holy spirit and no Jesus as son of God.
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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:17 pm
My issue with Islam is that no matter how many small groups of Muslims that protest that the other Muslims around the world that are "terrorizing, chauvinist bastards that beat their women (or kill them) when they don't follow the rules", there's still plenty of them that continue to send the message that doing the following is good:
-beating women who don't follow proper "clothing code"
-beating wives who are "disobedient"
-wanting to aggressively force the world to submit to Allah by any means necessary
-believing that suicide bombing is a holy act
-sticking to the notion that if you don't fit a certain amount of criteria, then you're gonna get ******** killed
-criticising the Qu'ran or questioning authority is a certain way to get killed
-freedom of speech is marginalized, and violation of that is going to get you killed.
-women who are uncovered are obviously sluts rolleyes
---->and that all these people do this are completely brainwashed and believe that they are doing exactly as your God commands.
That is what makes Islam leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:53 am
My, what harsh words for Islam! Absurd, I suggest that you quote these hadiths when commenting on Islam because: Quote: The "six major hadith collections" are, in order of strength: - Al-Bukhari's Sahih - Muslim's Sahih - al-Nasa'i's Sunan - Abu Dawud's Sunan - Al-Tirmidhi's Sunan - Ibn Majah's Sunan hmph, I was acutually waiting for the old ***** comments. I'm suprised it hasn't gotten there yet, and the main focus is again on the violence. Mini-Angel, you really need to accept the fact that the ahl al-kitab , especially the Christians have a completly different approach to their faith and a different type of thought. You've repeatedly gotten this concept of the Christian God about "having children" wrong, and Ratri has explained this numerous times to you and to other Muslims, as well as other Christians having to explain as well. Just accept it as something that it a matter of their own faith.
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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:03 am
Bismillah ---
OK! I have many things to say..
---> Absurd-- Now! I understand what you are saying! Probably you heard about when the Prophet Muhammad and his companions of muslims went to Madina, the Migration. They left Mecca because Quraysh were harming them, and torturing them, some of those muslims, went to Madina in secret, but others like " Omar bin Khattab " went in public, because he was a strong guy between Quraysh and nobody could say to him, no. Anyhow, those people, couldn't take all of their money or food, or let me say wealth, they left it at home because they couldn't take all the things with them. And Islam wasn't that strong then, and they couldn't purchase camels to hold these things. So, some of them even left their wives there. Anyhow, when they reached Madina, our fellow Madina people, shared with the Mecca people half of their wealth, so they can move on and build this Madina. Anyways, after settling down in the Madina, building the Mosque, rumors about Quraysh started coming out, they're stealing the wealth left in their houses back in Mecca. So, Prophet Muhammad only attacked Abu Sufyan's Caravan, because he wanted to give his companions' money back. Quraysh stole from their houses, so it's basically taking back what they stole!
-------> Dead Terrorist, ok, I can understand, they believe that it's the same one God, I understand that. But well, I was trying to say what Qura'an said, that Allah didn't take any wife or children. Thanks for clearing up.
-------> Dark Angel, mmmmm, so you're basically worshipping one God, not believing Jesus is a 100% devine, 100% human??
-------> Ratri, long time no see biggrin , lol, I agree where you talked about the uncovered women. But, when I was talking with you about those " uncovered women " I was talking about uncovering the body, not the hair. I cover my hair because I understand that it's a command from Allah. Maybe you don't understand it, but I do! Back to the uncovering the body, it's better to wear something long, well, because you're covering your body. But the hair, I really don't know, back when I wasn't wearing Hijab, I used to wear something long, and not very eye-catchy. But then, I thought, if it's a command from Allah, then I'd probably should do it.
WHOA, that was long, enjoy reading biggrin
--- Salam!
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:28 am
@ Mini angel.
No problem, I'm just sick and tired of hearing repeat questions when the answer has already been given out multiple times.
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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:44 pm
For Mini Angel:
Yeah, pretty much. I go with my Dad on that issue as Jesus exists and was a great guy, but I don't hear him in my prayers, though I really try. I only hear one voice talking to me. It makes my mom so mad because she sees me not having a religion at all.
On the contary, I am very religious and defend other religions that aren't mine (some people in my class got mad at me because I said Allah was the same as the Christian God which was the same as the Jewish God). That comes from my Methodist Christian background along with my accepting nature. People at my high school really don't like Islam when I see no problem. It gets annoying when the whole class is against you, like today. Sorry about my rant.
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:23 pm
Bismillah ---
--- Dead Terrorist --- I know I know, I'm sorry!! xp sweatdrop
--- Dark Angel --- Uhmmm, very interesting.. I think that people should start taking more ideas. Including myself razz . But.. I don't know. You said, you hear only one voice when you pray. Are you supposed to hear voices while praying? Does everybody hear voices? neutral confused
--- Salam
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:12 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 . So, Prophet Muhammad only attacked Abu Sufyan's Caravan, because he wanted to give his companions' money back. Quraysh stole from their houses, so it's basically taking back what they stole!
Your prophet endorses revenge by these actions. It's nothing more than an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth philosophy. I don't see how this is a support of a person who is supposed to be an advocate for peace.
Violence is still violence, especially since he thought it was still necessary to go out and raid a caravan even though he was getting assistance from neighboring groups.
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:43 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 Bismillah ---
--- Dead Terrorist --- I know I know, I'm sorry!! xp sweatdrop
--- Dark Angel --- Uhmmm, very interesting.. I think that people should start taking more ideas. Including myself razz . But.. I don't know. You said, you hear only one voice when you pray. Are you supposed to hear voices while praying? Does everybody hear voices? neutral confused
--- Salam I should have not posted it. Yeah, I am a hearing person so I hear God. I know, it isn't normal. I don't like to tell people. It happens when I pray though.
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:14 am
Bismillah ---
Absurd --- It's not revenge, it's their right, it's their money. So, they're allowed to do whatever they want. You can check Sorat Al Anfal, for more information.
Dark Angel --- Oh.. I see.. You hear while praying, that's interesting! Ummm, what do you hear?
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:56 am
Islam is a lot like Christianity.
Both religions have plenty of good people as followers.
Both religions have a few nutcases that do stupid things and mess it up for everyone.
Most of you here are very nice people.
I do enjoy talking to you, when I take the time to post.
Because you're all very intelligent and interesting.
But there are some Muslims who do stupid things.
Like fly planes into the World Trade Center buildings.
And try to blow things up.
Likewise, most Christians are very good people.
They're nice, they're intelligent, and they're interesting.
Just like Muslims.
But there are some Christians that do stupid things, too.
There are Christians who preach hate when they should be preaching love.
There are Christians who blow up abortion clinics, killing people to save people.
And these people give Christians a bad name.
The same way that some people give Muslims a bad name.
But generally, from what I've seen, Muslims are very peaceful, friendly people. So maybe you girls wear scarves on your heads. Big deal. It doesn't make you any better or any worse as a person.
Listen, if you believe in something, and that belief isn't hurting anyone, then more power to you. So far, very few of you have preached hate. You've said things I disagree with, but I've seen almost no hate. And that's what's important.
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:23 am
Bismillah ---
Wow, nice post, that's the nicest thing I heard since I joined this guild. Many people don't understand the point you said, that it's a religon like other religons, we're just trying to clear up the things we do and the reason. Because, well, this is a message for all humanity, and it's our duty to send it to you guys. It's then you're choice, either you accept it, or you refuse to get into it. It's as simple as that.
--- Salam
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