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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:05 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:44 am
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:03 pm
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:06 pm
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FaithBlack2001 Big Update!!! So I was doing a search for just the word "Moon" (I wasn't looking for Twilight stuff), & I came across the MTV website, which has info on the New Moon movie they are now working on. Here's the site: MTV siteIf you don't feel like reading the site, I'll just give you the run down: Guess what! Dakota Fanning is going to play Jane (which, in my opinion, will be awesome!) & they are considering Vanessa Hudgens or Brenda Song for Leah (Not my first choices, but whatever Stephanie thinks is best, I suppose.) The guy playing Jacob will be the same guy from the first movie, which I think is awesome (he makes such a cute Jacob! Almost makes me wanna switch teams... Almost...), & all the other characters are the same. Yay! The New Moon movie is set to come out sometime in Novemberish.
switch sides!!! switch sides!!! I can't wait for New Moon!!! I'm going to melt seeing Jacob so much!! Which is weird for me because I usually don't die from seeing cute actors... Well except Jim Sturges in Across the Universe & 21.... |
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:52 pm
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soupeh _-Mitsubachi-_-Fujin-_ I was not fond of the movie after reading the book... I'm poor sue me, I never got to read them. My gf's mom bought me the first book for Christmas this year. I just thought it could have been better you can go to a library... the library is my best friend ^.^ or ask to borrow the books from someone...
ha I tried that (trust me... I go to the library often, it's my bff)
BUt it'll basically take me years before I get the books. Last time talked to them they said there was about 700 people on a waiting list for the books. gonk crying so yeah..I think I'll be able to get the books myself before I actually can get it from the library |
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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:32 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:46 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:47 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:52 am
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:02 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:44 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:38 am
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but 'scuse me...I'm new here. In fact this is my very first post.
A guild that I am in has two nearly full pages of a Twilight thread and nothing negative has been said?! Oh no...This can't be allowed to happen.
Hiya, ladies. My name is Josh. I think most of you would be better suited to stick with Matasoga. Whatever you call me, it's clear to me that my role must be "The opposition." I have a violent, passionate detestation for Stephanie Meyer, Twilight, and the most heinous vertsion of the modern vampire ever created.
Why do I hate these things, you ask? Because I am a storyteller. Any good storyteller has familiarized herself with the ancient myths. No, girls, not Dracula. Go pre-16th century vampires. Oh, you won't like them. They're scary, rotten, and malicious. In other words, the people that created them knew what the word "Undead," meant.
Want more information? I'd be delighted. Please, have a look at this. It's a thread in my guild about this very topic.
Debate
You disagree with me, you say? Well that's just fine. I only ask a few things of you.
First of all, if you aren't willing to read the first post, I'm not interested in debating with you. How can you respond, if you haven't even heard the entirety of my argument? If you don't want to read it, that's fine. By all means, just ignore me. Really I'd prefer that "Ignore" means scroll past and disregard the post, but if you want to put me on your list over this, that's okay, too. I won't cry, I promise.
Secondly, if you have nothing to say except "RAWR TWILIGHT IS TEH BEST MOVI EVAR!!11!!ONE ELEVEN! U R STOOPID" then please, as a personal favor to me, don't. Just don't.
Thirdly, please don't say "Pashaw! Vampires aren't real...They don't have rules!" Excuse me for going all condescending nerd on you, but in fact, my dear, they do have rules. Everything that has a name in mythology has some form of what makes it what it is. A vampire is a vampire because of it's features. Those are rules. It's as simple as that.
Fourthly, please don't call me a troll. I know that I may come off as condescending but I'm not here to pick a fight. I'm here to start a potentially interesting debate and present an opposing viewpoint. By all means feel free to hate me, but let's all play nice and be civil. (Oh, and I promise that I won't be so condescending when I'm speaking to someone one on one, unless I feel it's warranted by extreme, intentional rudeness.)
Thank you to all of you that took the time to read this.
For those looking for the TL;DR version: ******** you. I have nothing more than this for the people that didn't care to read it. Thanks.
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:41 am
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After cutting the fat, for lack of a better term, I did manage to find the information in this long post & the exceedingly long linked post, & I have a few questions. Sorry that I'm not doing this quite in the same order that you did.
I'll start with the 1600-1700's: When you state this time period, I hope you're not talking about Dracula, because contrary to popular belief, Dracula was NOT the first Vampire book. The first was actually The Wyvern Mystery written by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu in Ireland. (The Wyvern Mystery (The Book)) This was the first vampire book to describe vampires as we see them today (or at least before Twilight).
I will be the first to admit that Twilight does have its flaws, but I will start with the one that bothers me the most: Stephanie Meyer claims to have never done any research on vampires, & yet not only is much of her storyline a PG version of the book series better known as the TV series known as True Blood (True Blood (Spoilers Alert!)), but many of her characters names are also main characters in The Wyvern Mystery (Examples being Alice, DulciBELLA, & Charlie, & there's no denying that Carlisle could easily be mistaken for Carwell, & that Alice has been described in The Wyvern Mystery as a Swan),
BUT
No matter how you look at it, Twilight is much more popular than The Wyvern Mystery ever was & probably ever will be. They've already made a TV series of The Wyvern Mystery, & it played on BBC for quite some time, but it is long gone now (aired in 2003, I believe), & the only way to get it is to buy it.
(Here's Half.com to buy it)
(IMDB's information of the series)
Now on to Hecate & Lamia:
Why does today's version of vampire disgust you if The Wyvern Mystery is the first book to describe vampires as we see them today, as in BEFORE Twilight? Wouldn't that be more reason to like today's version of vampire since Hecate & Lamia weren't classified by the term vampire? In fact, many of the research I've found on Lamia said that she devoured the flesh of children, not their blood. I also found that she survived on the semen & other bodily fluids of men she raped in their sleep, but bodily fluids could mean anything, not just blood. & by the way, Lamia was said to be the most beautiful creature on the planet before she became a flesh-eating, semen sucking monster (Sounds more like a Succubus/Zombie to me).
As for Hecate, she wasn't known to drink blood either, although her minions (seen as forms of Goblins) sometimes were. Neither of these beings were classified as Vampires until very recently. If anything about this particular mythology is to be seen as Vampiric, you'd be lumping Goblins & vampires into 1 being, & I see goblins as another type of mythology altogether, so you may do the research on those on your own.
(This link has some great info on both Hecate & Lamia)
In response to your point that "...when the cold, clammy disgusting flesh touches your's, you may rethink it...Unless of course you really ARE a necrophile...":
On a hot summer day, a cold, squishy thing that you can press against & gives you sexual pleasure might not be such a bad thing. It's like putting a moving blow-up sex doll in the freezer!
Sorry, couldn't resist that little joke. But seriously, that doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. Better than having to worry about all the sweat dripping all over you from doing it with a human guy, in my opinion.
Now on to the criticism:
Can we get some links & actual terms here?
"...Japan has a number of interesting vampires, notably the vampire that travels by leaping and is blind, able to sense creatures by their breath..."
This is a creature without a name. Can you fill us in so we can do the research ourselves, or maybe give a link?
"These are the facts. Many of you will not like it, and some of those will argue, but I have a fairly good amount of research on my side."
With no proof of research, you have nothing, so, again, links please.
Your stand point is that you dislike Twilight, but I have 1 simple question of you:
Have you only seen the movie, or have you read all of the books as well? Not many Twilight fans that read the books (ALL of them, which may or may not include the no-longer valid 5th book on the Twilight website) were fully happy with the movie because they leave out a LOT of key information. You can sit here & claim that you have all the facts all you like, but until you have read all of the books (& by that I mean all 4 of the published books) & fully done your research (& by that I mean read The Wyvern Mystery & looked into anything that Stephanie Meyer could have pulled information from), I don't think that you have any room to talk about what is or isn't blasphemy on Vampire lore. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:27 pm
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The post had to be that long as I had much to say. Also, let's face it; There are a whole lot of stupid Twilight fans. This does not mean that all Twilight fans are stupid and I am more or less a fan of at least a few animes that have had some notoriously stupid fans. Whether or not that reflects on the series in question is outside of the focus of this debate.
I have to tell you that I have severe and profound doubts that this is the first book ever written about vampires. They form of vampires that were directly incorporated into the mythological "evolution" for the modern vampire originated in ancient Rome with Hecate and her companions. I put this many qualifiers on it because there were (so I've heard) earlier Mayan blood drinkers the predate the Roman ones, but due to the lack of contact, these could not have had anything to do with the European ones that developed independently. Of course in the days of ancient Rome, the form of record was most likely to be a scroll, but given their sheer ancient nature, I believe there must have surely been an earlier work in codex for that focused on vampires.
Lamia, as well as other succubi, are all commonly considered vampires. Whether or not they actually drink blood or not is a thing that could be debated, but if pretty, idealized little Edward Cullen can be called a vampire, than I see abslutely zero reasons why these beings of ancient myth cannot be. To look at the term "Vampire," one must acknowledge that it came from the term meaning "To drink." You and I drink so the term is very broad with many grey areas so I don't feel that we can look to etymology to help us on this one. In any case yes, as you said "Lamia was said to be the most beautiful creature on the planet before she became a flesh-eating, semen sucking monster," but a single word negates the entirety of this being an argument against me. That word is "Before." What one looks like before hand is entirely irrelevant.
As for Hecate, it is unknown whether she herself, directly drank blood (though the accounts that I have read certainly seem to strongly imply it) but it cannot be questioned that her companions did. Saying that her companions were goblins and not vampires as the term vampire hadn't been developed yet is a bit... Just silly, really. I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I'd bet my last dime that the term "Vampire" came about a hell of a lot earlier before the term "Goblin" did. Besides, given that the term "Vampire" was originated by that culture that created Hecate so I don't think you can say with absolute certainty that the word wasn't used (or indeed perhaps even created) to describe these beings. Besides that, nothing starts off as a vampire. Everything that is any kind of undead was something else first. Usually the base creature was human. In the case of any firsts (such as the master vampire or any other type of spawn-creating undead) the roots are almost invariably infernal and credit some manner of demon or devil as bestowing the gift or curse of undeath.
Did I call that type of vampire that leaps and leeches away one's chi Japanese? It seems I must fix my original post. I meant to state that it instead was a creature from the far east that may have made it's way into Japanese folklore. It is actually Chinese and is called the Jiang Shi. I do believe that I made mention of this in the post.
I recommend the Encyclopedia of the Undead by Bob Curran. This is a primary source of information but I leave you to your own means if you wish to contest something else I encourage you to look into it as much as you like.
No. I have not read the book or movie because the idea that some action that I perform will put money in the pocket of this woman (who I do net exaggerate when I say that I would like to see her killed for her literary crime against mythology and the human institution of story-telling as a whole) literally makes me sick. If someone would like to steal me a copy or donate me a second hand one, I would suffer through read it (though of course obscure the spines and covers with black paint before being seen in public with it). Let's see if we can't save ourselves a little bit of time, though. Edward Cullen is a beautiful, idealized vampire male that is capable of sex and love (despite the fact that he had no knowledge of the object of his affections while still alive). All of this could be gleaned from the previews and...Well, the concept really. If you're going to tell me that this is not at all true, then by all means, get a copy to me. Since it is true, though, that little bit alone has already made it an unforgivable abomination in the eyes of any student of mythology and anyone that understands what the word "Undead" means.
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:59 pm
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You can get any book in the series from the library, & I'm sure if you look hard enough, you could probably find the movie at the library too.
You can't judge something that you don't know anything about, it's just that simple.
When I first found out about the Twilight series, I didn't want anything to do with it either. The entire concept behind it sounded over played & a little stupid to me, but after further investigation to the pros & cons of the series, I finally decided to pick up the book & give myself a reason to judge it as I did. I read the book with an open mind, & decided that it really wasn't so bad. I think that Bella as a character could use a little work, but the entire book as a whole wasn't so bad. Then I read the rest of the series, & it's really not so horrible. The movie was s**t as far as portraying the book, but that's to be expected of a movie based on a book. Are you aware that Edward isn't even IN the second movie/book much? He's in the first chapter or so, but then he's gone until the very end. There are quite a few 'fan-girls' that don't even LIKE Edward. Where do you think Team Jacob came from?
As for your opinion of Stephanie Meyer, Twilight isn't the only thing she's written. She's also written a book called "The Host". I haven't finished it yet, as I only started it recently, & it's hard to carry a book this big around with you when you have a schedule as hectic as mine, but from what I've read so far, I'm growing pretty fond of it too. I'm going to assume that you haven't read that either, & that you don't know much about it. Again, you can't judge an author unless you've read at least a little of her work. If you won't read Twilight, then read The Host, then you can pass judgment on her writing skills. I'm sure you can find it at the library as well.
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