Um... s**t.

[OberFeldwebel]

Stoic Socialist

OberFeldwebel

They could have just said that.
Was there anyone impartial that witnessed it?
Dash cam?

That could be said about nearly everything.

Did we really land on the moon?
Was the Holocaust real?
Are there actually planets besides earth?

Personally, I haven't seen any of the above.
I could have seen faked ones, video editing isn't THAT hard.

Sure, lame, and in exaggerated proportions, but I fail to see why it's different. I trust my teachers with what they teach me, and I trust LEOs with what they tell me. I don't have a reason not to, I'm not a Loonie/Bolshevik/Anarcho-Primitivist. smile

I'm not a... Anarcho-Primate whatever,
I'm just skeptical of some things, and honestly, this doesn't sound right.  

[Fresnel]

OberFeldwebel

Stoic Socialist

OberFeldwebel

They could have just said that.
Was there anyone impartial that witnessed it?
Dash cam?

That could be said about nearly everything.

Did we really land on the moon?
Was the Holocaust real?
Are there actually planets besides earth?

Personally, I haven't seen any of the above.
I could have seen faked ones, video editing isn't THAT hard.

Sure, lame, and in exaggerated proportions, but I fail to see why it's different. I trust my teachers with what they teach me, and I trust LEOs with what they tell me. I don't have a reason not to, I'm not a Loonie/Bolshevik/Anarcho-Primitivist. smile

I'm not a... Anarcho-Primate whatever,
I'm just skeptical of some things, and honestly, this doesn't sound right.

You're right. He sounds eccentric and reclusive, not suicidal or retarded.  

[OberFeldwebel]

Fresnel

OberFeldwebel

Stoic Socialist

OberFeldwebel

They could have just said that.
Was there anyone impartial that witnessed it?
Dash cam?

That could be said about nearly everything.

Did we really land on the moon?
Was the Holocaust real?
Are there actually planets besides earth?

Personally, I haven't seen any of the above.
I could have seen faked ones, video editing isn't THAT hard.

Sure, lame, and in exaggerated proportions, but I fail to see why it's different. I trust my teachers with what they teach me, and I trust LEOs with what they tell me. I don't have a reason not to, I'm not a Loonie/Bolshevik/Anarcho-Primitivist. smile

I'm not a... Anarcho-Primate whatever,
I'm just skeptical of some things, and honestly, this doesn't sound right.

You're right. He sounds eccentric and reclusive, not suicidal or retarded.

Exactly.  

[uryu ishida]

Stoic Socialist

OberFeldwebel

They could have just said that.
Was there anyone impartial that witnessed it?
Dash cam?

That could be said about nearly everything.

Did we really land on the moon?
Was the Holocaust real?
Are there actually planets besides earth?

Personally, I haven't seen any of the above.
I could have seen faked ones, video editing isn't THAT hard.

Sure, lame, and in exaggerated proportions, but I fail to see why it's different. I trust my teachers with what they teach me, and I trust LEOs with what they tell me. I don't have a reason not to, I'm not a Loonie/Bolshevik/Anarcho-Primitivist. smile

I do not trust what LEOs tell me when LEOs have quite the history of LIEING ABOUT IT TO SAVE THEIR ASSES.  

[OberFeldwebel]

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=69232

Read their responses, there are some LEOs that have posted.  

[Fresnel]

The situation that comes to mind when I read this is that the kid stepped out his door holding his Kar, closed the door behind him, and then began walking away from the door holding the Kar in one hand by the action. Cops pop up and scream "DROPYOURWEAPONDROPYOURWEAPONDROPYOURWEAPON" and before his mind can come to terms with this, he's dead. TECHNICALLY he was pointing the gun at the cops.

And seriously, do people need to ASK why he was firing off blanks on NEW YEAR'S?  

[Anima_Raptor]

So why couldnt the cops put, lets say, just one or two rounds in them instead of a volley?

What happened to controlled fire? And maybe this is a futile request, but why not up the trigger pull on these guns a few pounds? At very least it might act as a deterent to filling a target full of lead.  

[Fresnel]

Anima_Raptor

So why couldnt the cops put, lets say, just one or two rounds in them instead of a volley?

What happened to controlled fire? And maybe this is a futile request, but why not up the trigger pull on these guns a few pounds? At very least it might act as a deterent to filling a target full of lead.

Because if you take one shot and wither miss or wing the guy, he's going to be PISSED OFF and armed. If you empty the mag into the guy, you can assess the situation while you reload. I believe police protocol is to keep firing until either the man or his weapon hits the ground.  

[OberFeldwebel]

Fresnel

Anima_Raptor

So why couldnt the cops put, lets say, just one or two rounds in them instead of a volley?

What happened to controlled fire? And maybe this is a futile request, but why not up the trigger pull on these guns a few pounds? At very least it might act as a deterent to filling a target full of lead.

Because if you take one shot and wither miss or wing the guy, he's going to be PISSED OFF and armed. If you empty the mag into the guy, you can assess the situation while you reload. I believe police protocol is to keep firing until either the man or his weapon hits the ground.

But they give the cops High-Capacity magazines... something that the civilians can't own.  

[Fresnel]

OberFeldwebel

Fresnel

Anima_Raptor

So why couldnt the cops put, lets say, just one or two rounds in them instead of a volley?

What happened to controlled fire? And maybe this is a futile request, but why not up the trigger pull on these guns a few pounds? At very least it might act as a deterent to filling a target full of lead.

Because if you take one shot and wither miss or wing the guy, he's going to be PISSED OFF and armed. If you empty the mag into the guy, you can assess the situation while you reload. I believe police protocol is to keep firing until either the man or his weapon hits the ground.

But they give the cops High-Capacity magazines... something that the civilians can't own.

Only in certain states. Hell, my brother's got four 35 round Glock 17/19 mags. Lemme tell you, those things are bulky and HEAVY when loaded. I wouldn't carry them around with me all day. Whatever a cop has is likely to be whatever came with the gun. Glock 17 has 17 rounds, a cop might have one in the pipe and two reloads... that's not out of proportion to, say, what Freak's XDm has.  

[Crash Maniac]

From the LEO point of view. .....if the account is correct wink .....


Responding to a shots fired call, and i find a man holding a rifle. He gets a gun pointed at him. Secondly, if he doesnt drop the gun... I'd be evaluating less than lethal options (if given the opportunity) However, if at any point he pointed the weapon at me, a fellow officer, or a civilian.... He's gettin shot. And i dont aim to wound.

i didnt read a detailed report on the situation. but that dude had to have done one of the last things i mentioned to get dropped.

Cops have so much to account for, when dealing with subjects like this. and they only have seconds to process the information, formulate a responce, and act.

The public, legal teams, and state oversight committees... have FOREVER to criticize, debate, and discipline officers for making those choices.

The thing is, LEO's are state/city trained... and in situations like this.... (for the most part) act like robots in conjunction with that training. It's all second nature responses.

Now, not saying the LEO's were right, not saying that the loss of human life is right.... but they're doing their job. and we have all the time in the world to think about what they did wrong, what they could have done.

Just think about how you would react, when having a gun pointed at you.


Now, for those who disagree...

you are a go for flame units.  

[Fresnel]

Crash Maniac

From the LEO point of view. .....if the account is correct wink .....


Responding to a shots fired call, and i find a man holding a rifle. He gets a gun pointed at him. Secondly, if he doesnt drop the gun... I'd be evaluating less than lethal options (if given the opportunity) However, if at any point he pointed the weapon at me, a fellow officer, or a civilian.... He's gettin shot. And i dont aim to wound.

i didnt read a detailed report on the situation. but that dude had to have done one of the last things i mentioned to get dropped.

Cops have so much to account for, when dealing with subjects like this. and they only have seconds to process the information, formulate a responce, and act.

The public, legal teams, and state oversight committees... have FOREVER to criticize, debate, and discipline officers for making those choices.

The thing is, LEO's are state/city trained... and in situations like this.... (for the most part) act like robots in conjunction with that training. It's all second nature responses.

Now, not saying the LEO's were right, not saying that the loss of human life is right.... but they're doing their job. and we have all the time in the world to think about what they did wrong, what they could have done.

Just think about how you would react, when having a gun pointed at you.


Now, for those who disagree...

you are a go for flame units.

We're not saying that the taken course of action in the given situation is wrong, we're saying the given situation sounds fishy. There's only two survivors, and they're both on the losing side if a ******** happened.  

[OberFeldwebel]

Fresnel

Crash Maniac

From the LEO point of view. .....if the account is correct wink .....


Responding to a shots fired call, and i find a man holding a rifle. He gets a gun pointed at him. Secondly, if he doesnt drop the gun... I'd be evaluating less than lethal options (if given the opportunity) However, if at any point he pointed the weapon at me, a fellow officer, or a civilian.... He's gettin shot. And i dont aim to wound.

i didnt read a detailed report on the situation. but that dude had to have done one of the last things i mentioned to get dropped.

Cops have so much to account for, when dealing with subjects like this. and they only have seconds to process the information, formulate a responce, and act.

The public, legal teams, and state oversight committees... have FOREVER to criticize, debate, and discipline officers for making those choices.

The thing is, LEO's are state/city trained... and in situations like this.... (for the most part) act like robots in conjunction with that training. It's all second nature responses.

Now, not saying the LEO's were right, not saying that the loss of human life is right.... but they're doing their job. and we have all the time in the world to think about what they did wrong, what they could have done.

Just think about how you would react, when having a gun pointed at you.


Now, for those who disagree...

you are a go for flame units.

We're not saying that the taken course of action in the given situation is wrong, we're saying the given situation sounds fishy. There's only two survivors, and they're both on the losing side if a ******** happened.

An impartial witness would be nice.
Is there a dashcam video or someone looking out the window?