The death of Dr. Tiller.

[magmayoshi]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

 

[Kuchen Fairy]

Zambimaru

I think its sad anytime a religious extremist kills an innocent person. Guess Church isn't such a safe place after all.

Depends on your definition of "safe." Generally when people say a church or other such house of God is "safe," they are referring to the status of your soul or whatever. Obviously no place on Earth is devoid of potential risks. Besides, I'd much rather be inside a church than in some Iraqi slum right now, because yes, the former is still much more safe, at least currently, than the latter. It's your choice.
The keyword in your comment though is "extremist." I'm already sick of people crying about how "religion kills people." Yes, and so does late-term abortion. So does lightning. So does living for a certain period of time. As I said, one whackjob doesn't define the whole of the group they claim to represent. Anybody who feels otherwise is basically calling somebody like me, a peaceful opponent of abortion, a murderer. I ain't into that. talk2hand

This also depends on your definition of "innocent." Obviously I don't think Tiller was guilty of anything that justified his death, but was he morally innocent? Vigilantism is only cool in Assassin's Creed, but depending on your own code of ethics and your own philosophies, everything that went down could be absolutely justified to some degree.  

[Fresnel]

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?

There's nothing to say Tiller didn't drop dead of a massive brain aneurysm the instant before the bullet hit him, either. If you want to bring in whacko out-of-left-field theories, there's nothing to say that every baby Tiller aborted wasn't a new Hitler. Should we give him the Congressional Medal of Honor then?

My point is that one can not claim that they saved future lives by killing someone, because we'll never know that to be true. I'm not saying treat the man like a hero, I'm saying DON'T treat his murderer like one.

Why are you treating his murderer like a murderer? Tiller might have been secretly plotting to blow up the earth, and this man saved us all. HE'S AN INTERNATIONAL HERO.

My point is, don't make wild ******** 'could be' guesses. Go with what's most likely. Occam's Razor. Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I did not miss your point, but your point was kind of the brainchild of a point I think you missed, though it doesn't really matter.  

[magmayoshi]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.  

[Fresnel]

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.  

[magmayoshi]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims

Last I checked abortions prevent babies from being born in the future. The life of the mother is easily ruined, as she is forced to carry it till pooping it out and maintaining it after then. Saving the women from the pain and suffering, that may have no reward.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

Silver Screen

saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao.

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.

I don't really blame you for missing the point though because the point is such bullshit. Tiller - and a bunch of people, to be honest - are under the impression that an unwanted pregnancy will "kill" the woman if she's ~forced~ to carry it to term. Obviously some pregnancies can actually kill the woman but not enough to label Tiller a martyred hero for what he did, espeecially considering he'd perform late-term abortions for whatever reason the woman gave. Tiller probably didn't think about the lives of the unborn children he killed.  

[magmayoshi]

Silver Screen

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.

I don't really blame you for missing the point though because the point is such bullshit. Tiller - and a bunch of people, to be honest - are under the impression that an unwanted pregnancy will "kill" the woman if she's ~forced~ to carry it to term. Obviously some pregnancies can actually kill the woman but not enough to label Tiller a martyred hero for what he did, espeecially considering he'd perform late-term abortions for whatever reason the woman gave. Tiller probably didn't think about the lives of the unborn children he killed.

What? o.O Life ruining =/= Life ending.
You both didn't get the ******** point. rofl  

[Kuchen Fairy]

magmayoshi

Silver Screen

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.

I don't really blame you for missing the point though because the point is such bullshit. Tiller - and a bunch of people, to be honest - are under the impression that an unwanted pregnancy will "kill" the woman if she's ~forced~ to carry it to term. Obviously some pregnancies can actually kill the woman but not enough to label Tiller a martyred hero for what he did, espeecially considering he'd perform late-term abortions for whatever reason the woman gave. Tiller probably didn't think about the lives of the unborn children he killed.

What? o.O Life ruining =/= Life ending.
You both didn't get the ******** point. rofl

Explaining your point would be the appropriate response to all the apparent confusion then, would it not?  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?

There's nothing to say Tiller didn't drop dead of a massive brain aneurysm the instant before the bullet hit him, either. If you want to bring in whacko out-of-left-field theories, there's nothing to say that every baby Tiller aborted wasn't a new Hitler. Should we give him the Congressional Medal of Honor then?

My point is that one can not claim that they saved future lives by killing someone, because we'll never know that to be true. I'm not saying treat the man like a hero, I'm saying DON'T treat his murderer like one.

Why are you treating his murderer like a murderer? Tiller might have been secretly plotting to blow up the earth, and this man saved us all. HE'S AN INTERNATIONAL HERO.

My point is, don't make wild ******** 'could be' guesses. Go with what's most likely. Occam's Razor. Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before.

Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM.

That murderer made himself to be no better than Tiller himself was. What Tiller did, was perfectly legal, what his killer did, was not. And there's a difference between a potential life, and one already in progress.

Just saying...  

[magmayoshi]

black_wing_angel

And there's a difference between a potential life, and one already in progress.

Kinda what I was getting at but people don't get that mothers have lives capable of being ruined too. confused  

[Fresnel]

magmayoshi

Silver Screen

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

magmayoshi

I think you two missed my point entirely, though I'm not completely sure of that. You may have had a valid point that I can't quite grasp.

I got what you said but you misinterpreted my post. Your post really doesn't work or has anything to do with what I said.

How could Tiller have said that his work saved future lives, then? I assumed you meant that at least one of the babies he'd aborted would have grown up to be a murderer, but apparently you meant something else.

I don't really blame you for missing the point though because the point is such bullshit. Tiller - and a bunch of people, to be honest - are under the impression that an unwanted pregnancy will "kill" the woman if she's ~forced~ to carry it to term. Obviously some pregnancies can actually kill the woman but not enough to label Tiller a martyred hero for what he did, espeecially considering he'd perform late-term abortions for whatever reason the woman gave. Tiller probably didn't think about the lives of the unborn children he killed.

What? o.O Life ruining =/= Life ending.
You both didn't get the ******** point. rofl

Perhaps you missed that when I said "saving a life", I meant "allowing them to continue living instead of dying." Life ruining ≠ life ending.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?

There's nothing to say Tiller didn't drop dead of a massive brain aneurysm the instant before the bullet hit him, either. If you want to bring in whacko out-of-left-field theories, there's nothing to say that every baby Tiller aborted wasn't a new Hitler. Should we give him the Congressional Medal of Honor then?

My point is that one can not claim that they saved future lives by killing someone, because we'll never know that to be true. I'm not saying treat the man like a hero, I'm saying DON'T treat his murderer like one.

Why are you treating his murderer like a murderer? Tiller might have been secretly plotting to blow up the earth, and this man saved us all. HE'S AN INTERNATIONAL HERO.

My point is, don't make wild ******** 'could be' guesses. Go with what's most likely. Occam's Razor. Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before.

Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM.

That murderer made himself to be no better than Tiller himself was. What Tiller did, was perfectly legal, what his killer did, was not. And there's a difference between a potential life, and one already in progress.

Just saying...

So if you'd shot Hitler in 1940, knowing full well what was coming in the next five years...