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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:03 am
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:25 am
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:05 am
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:56 am
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I have a mixed view of it all. On a basic level I believe that there is an ultimate GOD and GODDESS, and that all other Gods and Goddesses are but aspects of them. However, I also firmly believe that the aspects are individual beings/entities, that are not interchangeable with one another.
I personally would never presume to call on random deities that I didn't have some sort of established relationship with (unless there was a specific reason to believe that such contact would be welcome).
To me though it's hard to separate the cultures that are "attached" to the deities, and to just call on one, because it has the "skills" I need, when I don't know anything about the cultures involved - seems disrespectful. Again it seems to come down to a distinct difference in the way one views deity - either as companions, friends, family, parental figure, etc... versus as a "tool", or a simple variable in a spell.
Too, I found that if you try to plug the "soft poly" concept into things like the Wheel of the Year, even the Triple Goddess - it quickly breaks down when you realize that many of these Gods and Goddesses have myths of their own, and they just don't fit where one is trying to force them to fit.
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:43 pm
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doistu Aww starlock, I'm sorry. Of course however you choose to do things is fine. I didn't mean to be snooty about it. Bright blessings
Er... I wasn't taking anything you said as a personal attack, Doistu and I don't really think you came off as snooty. I was hoping to raise some questions about what a "proper" understanding of divinity is. xd
Violet, all I was really meaning to say with that statement is that once someone has a particular view of something, it is more difficult for them to see alternative perspectives. It wasn't meant as an insult and I'm sorry you took it that way. The same applies to a soft polytheist trying to understand hard polytheism. Or frankly, me trying to understand why someone can see hard and soft polytheism as mutually exclusive choices, an either-or dichotomy.
Regardless of that, I'd have to disagree that it a soft approach is, as you seem to be saying, necessarily derogatory or insulting. Are there soft polytheists who are sloppy? Sure, I imagine there are. I wouldn't paint them all with a brush, however, that insinuates they don't take what they do seriously. I imagine there are also sloppy hard polytheists; I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush either. It'd be nice to see both groups not make presumptions about each other's approaches and/or seriousness of practice and instead simply aim to learn from each other's perspectives (even if that learning simply is knowing what it is that you disagree with or dislike!).
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:50 pm
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Starlock Violet, all I was really meaning to say with that statement is that once someone has a particular view of something, it is more difficult for them to see alternative perspectives. Difficult, but not impossible. It takes a bit to see from the other perspective, but it can be done. I can understand why and how someone would view deities in a soft polytheistic lens. Doesn't make a great deal of sense to me as I feel that it ignores a good bit of mythology, but I can understand it.
Quote: It wasn't meant as an insult and I'm sorry you took it that way. The same applies to a soft polytheist trying to understand hard polytheism. Or frankly, me trying to understand why someone can see hard and soft polytheism as mutually exclusive choices, an either-or dichotomy. Sweet up there I feel has a good middle road view. If I had to mix in some soft polytheism into my beliefs I think that's where I'd fall in as well. And it's still pretty respectful to both views.
Quote: Regardless of that, I'd have to disagree that it a soft approach is, as you seem to be saying, necessarily derogatory or insulting. Are there soft polytheists who are sloppy? Sure, I imagine there are. I wouldn't paint them all with a brush, however, that insinuates they don't take what they do seriously. I don't recall saying at any point that all soft polytheists are the same and believe/practice the same. I am well aware of sloppy SPs. I see it a good bit.
Quote: I imagine there are also sloppy hard polytheists; I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush either. It'd be nice to see both groups not make presumptions about each other's approaches and/or seriousness of practice and instead simply aim to learn from each other's perspectives (even if that learning simply is knowing what it is that you disagree with or dislike!). Erm, how would someone go about being a sloppy hard polytheist? confused I really don't think I've insinuated anywhere that soft polytheists are not serious about their practices. And as I've stated before, I can understand why someone would feel more comfortable with soft polytheism. I was soft polytheist for a good while. Then I read the myths and lore of my gods and it dawned on me that to think they were all just facets of an over-arching god wasn't giving them enough credit.
Out of curiosity, those who are soft polytheists, do you see YHVH as being a facet of the God?
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:29 pm
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:43 pm
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:17 pm
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:31 pm
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Starlock Sloppy hard polytheist could mean not doing thorough research, eh? I'm sure we could think of a few other ways in which it could be sloppy. Those who disagree with pantheon mixing would consider doing so sloppy or improper, to a fashion. True. Oi. Pantheon mixing gonk .
Quote: And sorry I interpreted you as being a bit hard-nosed about SP's Violet. You can come off pretty rough sometimes, so hopefully my err is forgivable offense. Thanks for clarifying. xd I know. And no worries.
Quote: On the YHVH being a facet of the God... that's an interesting question, really. I wonder if there might be some Christian-Pagans who view the God and Goddess (and every other deity) as a facet of YHVH. So making every other god and goddess simply a facet of YHVH? I find that a little...improper.
Quote: I don't know a Christian-Pagan personally, though, and I can't say I've run across this particular view. Wouldn't surprise me if someone had it though. As noted, our human attempts to categorize the divine are probably pitiable from its point of view. sweatdrop Oh Christo-pagans xp .
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:21 pm
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I've thought this over a lot lately after joining this guild and watching all of you, And I've come to the conclusion that they are so different that they HAVE to be seperate, it would be like having a personality disorder..
{See what this guild has done to me? It's made me THINK! lol}
But I can't seem to shake the soft idea of the Gods being made of the same type of divine energy, But not the same people... Infact completely different people..
Almost like humans;
We have blacks,Whites, Italians, Mexicans, etc. But if you cut into us, we bleed red. Yet we have never met and have infact evolved so diffrently.. I think it could also be applied to the divine..
We are not facets of one being, Yet we bleed the same blood.
BLAH!
Maybe I'm thinking too hard on the matter... I'm trying my best not to be sloppy/messy/etc..
{I guess, I'm still going through my whole thought process here. It's a whole hell of a lot harder then I figured..}
._____.
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:36 am
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:58 am
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Namikikyo
But I can't seem to shake the soft idea of the Gods being made of the same type of divine energy, But not the same people... Infact completely different people..
Almost like humans;
We have blacks,Whites, Italians, Mexicans, etc. But if you cut into us, we bleed red. Yet we have never met and have infact evolved so diffrently.. I think it could also be applied to the divine..
We are not facets of one being, Yet we bleed the same blood.
BLAH!
Maybe I'm thinking too hard on the matter... I'm trying my best not to be sloppy/messy/etc..
{I guess, I'm still going through my whole thought process here. It's a whole hell of a lot harder then I figured..}
._____.
One of the things I believe about the world we live in is that we all come from a divine Source. The Source is in all things: we are all created from the same Source, but in that creation we are all also distinct, and individual. The Source is the Universal Life-force, and yet it is seperate, above and beyond. (I'm a panentheist.) Each individual thing in existence a small piece of the Source, sent out to experience life in its' own unique way - and when we die, we all return to the Source, bringing that experience with us.
So Gods, people, plants, dirt: it's all the Source, split off in different ways and amounts, to experience life.
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:46 pm
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