Guild question

[Esselean]

Maybe my brain just isn't working today. I just don't seem to be able to understand the term "Neo Wicca" I'm not getting how you can have a new version of something that isn't old. Can someone please explain it to me????  

[too2sweet]

Leona Moon

Thanks too2sweet, I was just confused by the guild description. 3nodding

It's sort of a catch 22, we know there are those out there that call themselves as such, so in order to make sure that people can find us we have to add the tags. The home page does cover the basics, though I know not everyone reads it. sweatdrop

edit...

Esse... yeah, it does seem a little strange, but it's the way "Eclectic" Wicca is justified...kind of like New Coke - if you are old enough to remember that (and it goes over with the Trad crowd just as well - which is to say not at all). xd

Personally there is a part of me that says, well - at least they are making the attempt to differentiate, but then the rest of me says - well if it isn't really Wicca, then why call it that at all.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Yea I saw in your previous post some clarification so I edited it out of my post.

Forgive me. Usually when this type of discussion comes up, it's form an "Eclectic Wiccan" trying to argue that their path can legitimately be called Wicca, so I automatically go on the "No, it isn't really and here's why." defensive.

Sweet: wink  

[Leona Moon]

too2sweet

Leona Moon

Thanks too2sweet, I was just confused by the guild description. 3nodding

It's sort of a catch 22, we know there are those out there that call themselves as such, so in order to make sure that people can find us we have to add the tags. The home page does cover the basics, though I know not everyone reads it. sweatdrop

That makes sense. smile

The term Neo-Wicca doesn't make sense to me period, since Traditional Wicca is also Neo-Pagan. But I guess I can see why it's used.  

[Esselean]

too2sweet

Esse... yeah, it does seem a little strange, but it's the way "Eclectic" Wicca is justified...kind of like New Coke - if you are old enough to remember that (and it goes over with the Trad crowd just as well - which is to say not at all). xd

Personally there is a part of me that says, well - at least they are making the attempt to differentiate, but then the rest of me says - well if it isn't really Wicca, then why call it that at all.

Oh ok now I understand what your saying.
Thanks xd  

[Esselean]

Violet Song jat Shariff

Usually when this type of discussion comes up, it's form an "Eclectic Wiccan" trying to argue that their path can legitimately be called Wicca, so I automatically go on the "No, it isn't really and here's why." defensive.

lol I do the same thing as well  

[GoddessAttuned]

Violet Song jat Shariff

Eclectic practice *is* valid. It's just not Wicca. And it doesn't NEED to be called Wicca to be valid. And why so many people insist that their practice is Wicca even when it doesn't meet the basics of what Wicca is never ceases to amaze me.

You took what I was going to type right out of my mouth, so to speak.
@_@
I also do not understand the need for some people to call something " wicca" to make it valid.
As an eclectic pagan, I know this, my religion is not wicca in any way shape of form.

 

[Starlock]

Leona Moon

Strangely enough gaiaonline has been the only place I've seen it be such a huge issue, other forums may have members who are opposed to Eclectic Wicca but not so vehemently and widespread.

This is what I've observed as well, and for the most part, I've gotten tired of the nonsense and by and large don't waste my time discussing the issue. As has been said, it isn't so much an opposition to Eclectic Wicca as a fossilization of defining the word "Wicca" to how it was used when the movement first originated (which now seems to be going by BTW to distinguish itself from mainstream Wicca in some areas). In light of how usage of the term has evolved over the past thirty-some years, I find this to be absurd, for even though the BTW-folks have a point, one simply cannot control the evolution of language. The term Wicca is long, long past the point where it refers exclusively to linaged, initiatory traditions. Five minutes in a major bookseller will tell you this much, as will any examination of the scholarly literature about Neopaganism in general. Wicca can and still does rightly refer to BTW in some contexts, but it's grown to mean many more things than this alone. I think it makes a heck of a lot more sense to just accept this reality and start elucidating multiple definitions for "Wicca" that actually represent how the word is used. In other words, teach distinctions. That's what I do, at any rate. So long as people understand the difference between BTW and mainstream Wicca, I'm happy.  

[Leona Moon]

Starlock

Leona Moon

Strangely enough gaiaonline has been the only place I've seen it be such a huge issue, other forums may have members who are opposed to Eclectic Wicca but not so vehemently and widespread.

This is what I've observed as well, and for the most part, I've gotten tired of the nonsense and by and large don't waste my time discussing the issue. As has been said, it isn't so much an opposition to Eclectic Wicca as a fossilization of defining the word "Wicca" to how it was used when the movement first originated (which now seems to be going by BTW to distinguish itself from mainstream Wicca in some areas). In light of how usage of the term has evolved over the past thirty-some years, I find this to be absurd, for even though the BTW-folks have a point, one simply cannot control the evolution of language. The term Wicca is long, long past the point where it refers exclusively to linaged, initiatory traditions. Five minutes in a major bookseller will tell you this much, as will any examination of the scholarly literature about Neopaganism in general. Wicca can and still does rightly refer to BTW in some contexts, but it's grown to mean many more things than this alone. I think it makes a heck of a lot more sense to just accept this reality and start elucidating multiple definitions for "Wicca" that actually represent how the word is used. In other words, teach distinctions. That's what I do, at any rate. So long as people understand the difference between BTW and mainstream Wicca, I'm happy.

I totally agree with you, Starlock. I see Wicca as an umbrella term, and as long as the individual claiming to be Wiccan knows the history and the distinctions between different practices then I'm not going to complain. I usually avoid bringing this up because I know a handful of people will automatically want to argue with me about it, which is silly because I've already seen the arguments and I've established my own opinion. Then it all leads to a bunch of pointless online bickering. I have better things to do. Anyway, thank you for sharing your point.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Leona Moon

I totally agree with you, Starlock. I see Wicca as an umbrella term,

It really doesn't matter how YOU see the term. It isn't an umbrella term for any and all ditheistic faiths.

Quote:

and as long as the individual claiming to be Wiccan knows the history and the distinctions between different practices then I'm not going to complain.

Someone knowing the history of Wicca and what makes Wicca Wicca and then STILL continues to perpetuate false information...you'd really be okay with that?  

[Leona Moon]

Violet Song jat Shariff

It isn't an umbrella term for any and all ditheistic faiths.

Yes, I agree with that.

Quote:

Someone knowing the history of Wicca and what makes Wicca Wicca and then STILL continues to perpetuate false information...you'd really be okay with that?

I'm fine with it as long as they are educated on the subject. To me part of it comes down to a matter of opinion, so as long as the individual knows what they're talking about and makes that distinction. I believe they should bring it up when others are learning about it as well. I don't see anything wrong with you feeling upset about this, I just have my own ideas on what is reasonable. You're welcome to have your own.  

[Lucas Moonrose]

It's the fault of the Authors putting the Term "Wicca" out as an Umbrella term.
It's the Persons fault for Continuing to use it after they found out that it's not the right term.

My question is why do they Continuously put the term "Wicca" Out there when it is Falsely used.

I'm pretty sure False Advertising could be pinned against them and why hasn't Gerald Gardner Done anything about this? Or even his Coven?

By no means am I trying to offend or stir up Drama. It was just a few questions I had to ask.

 

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Lucas Moonrose

My question is why do they Continuously put the term "Wicca" Out there when it is Falsely used.

Because "Eclectic Neo-pagan Witchcraft" just isn't as catchy ninja .

Quote:

I'm pretty sure False Advertising could be pinned against them and why hasn't Gerald Gardner Done anything about this? Or even his Coven?

Gardner is dead.  

[Esselean]

Leona Moon

I'm fine with it as long as they are educated on the subject. To me part of it comes down to a matter of opinion, so as long as the individual knows what they're talking about and makes that distinction. I believe they should bring it up when others are learning about it as well. I don't see anything wrong with you feeling upset about this, I just have my own ideas on what is reasonable. You're welcome to have your own.

If they were truely educated wouldn't they just call a Pagan a Pagan and a Wiccan a Wiccan?  

[Leona Moon]

Can anyone suggest a plausible way to reverse 30+ years of etymological changes? Keeping in mind that A. People who are aware of the history will still continue to use the term in many cases and B. Most people really don't care C. Eclectic Wicca is far more widespread, popular, and accepted (even if it isn't necessarily "right") D. By the time you convince a larger group of people your viewpoint, Wicca from it's eclectic definition will have been in use long enough for most people still not care or agree.

Why don't more traditional Wiccans stand up for what they believe in and publish books on the subject? Post more videos? Respond to more eclectics?