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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:32 pm
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the_forgotten_thought Sayga Takaino scarlette_15 yes, konstantinos has written alot of books, i have read most of them, but not every goth IS a devil worshiper. yeah. i mean, i've met a couple, but a majority are just atheist or even christian. i don't think it's really that relevant anymore. maybe when the culture first started, but not these days.
The subculture has evolved into culture, really. Also, for example, everything a person does or writes does not reflect their beliefs. Another person liking what the first person did does not mean that they agree with that person's beliefs. And the more widespread you become through this process, the more and more diversity you will get. However, the gothic subculture takes so many things from so many different time periods, cultures, movements, ext., you can not pin the ENTIRE group on just one leg that made contributions. |
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:47 pm
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:53 pm
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:41 am
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Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II He is an expert on what is and isn't Goth, and he says it's so so I have to take his word over yours. UGH! pathetic lil' wiener. . .Konstantinos is an occult author NOT a satanist. there is a completely total difference. he writes about wicca, witchcraft, etc. which is not satanism. if you would know since you say you do you would know that it is a difference. goths are not satanist! >.> -sigh- I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths.
but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.> |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:26 am
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scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II He is an expert on what is and isn't Goth, and he says it's so so I have to take his word over yours. UGH! pathetic lil' wiener. . .Konstantinos is an occult author NOT a satanist. there is a completely total difference. he writes about wicca, witchcraft, etc. which is not satanism. if you would know since you say you do you would know that it is a difference. goths are not satanist! >.> -sigh- I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths. but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.>
Look up the book yourself and see for yourself. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:55 am
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Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II He is an expert on what is and isn't Goth, and he says it's so so I have to take his word over yours. UGH! pathetic lil' wiener. . .Konstantinos is an occult author NOT a satanist. there is a completely total difference. he writes about wicca, witchcraft, etc. which is not satanism. if you would know since you say you do you would know that it is a difference. goths are not satanist! >.> -sigh- I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths. but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.> Look up the book yourself and see for yourself.
i dont need to thankyouverymuch. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:59 am
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scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II He is an expert on what is and isn't Goth, and he says it's so so I have to take his word over yours. UGH! pathetic lil' wiener. . .Konstantinos is an occult author NOT a satanist. there is a completely total difference. he writes about wicca, witchcraft, etc. which is not satanism. if you would know since you say you do you would know that it is a difference. goths are not satanist! >.> -sigh- I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths. but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.> Look up the book yourself and see for yourself. i dont need to thankyouverymuch. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:05 am
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Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths. but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.> Look up the book yourself and see for yourself. i dont need to thankyouverymuch. Then prepare for nobody to ever take you seriously in an argument. Look it up, or concede that I'm right.
I will do no such thing! |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:15 am
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:59 am
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scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II scarlette_15 Zahmen II I never said he was one, he's a recovered Goth and has admitted to being a Satanist in the past, along with all the other Goths. but just because he was a satanist doesnt involve everyone else who is goth. thats what im getting at. o sorry for calling you "pathetic lil' wiener" >.> Look up the book yourself and see for yourself. i dont need to thankyouverymuch. Then prepare for nobody to ever take you seriously in an argument. Look it up, or concede that I'm right. I will do no such thing!
Then I am right, as you refuse to argue it with proof. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:03 am
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:05 pm
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Zahmen II Luz Melian I'm a Christian and goth, so obviously it doesn't apply for me. And I thought at least people in this guild [when not the general population] are informed enough to know that the subculture was based on a musical genre and no religious affiliation whatsoever. If there's a tendency to certain beliefs among goths, I believe a lot are agnostics or atheists, but the Satanists are a rather smaller part. And of course there are also Christians and other theists too; it doesn't matter as long as you have passion for the music. I'm just quoting an expose on the gothic subculture written by a reformed Goth. Look it up!
Research from books which are simply the words of one man, whoever it may be. Time goes on, perspectives change, branch out, adapt. Its roots may be based in Satanism, but such is not necessarily the case now.
Still, hardly a reason to debate over. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:22 pm
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Zahmen II Luz Melian I'm a Christian and goth, so obviously it doesn't apply for me. And I thought at least people in this guild [when not the general population] are informed enough to know that the subculture was based on a musical genre and no religious affiliation whatsoever. If there's a tendency to certain beliefs among goths, I believe a lot are agnostics or atheists, but the Satanists are a rather smaller part. And of course there are also Christians and other theists too; it doesn't matter as long as you have passion for the music. I'm just quoting an expose on the gothic subculture written by a reformed Goth. Look it up!
Dear Luz, please let me respond to this fool: A REFORMED GOTH, EH? So, this reformed "goth", who claimed himself as this, wrote a book, saying everyone else who was a "goth" is a satanist, huh, ok....
Something tells me alot of our dear pre-goth inspiritional idols would STRONGLY disagree with this statement of this ONE man.
I could say, "Hey look, guys! I'm a goth and I'm a Christian!!! We had the buildings and all that, so in order for you to be of any kind of goth or of that genre, YOU ARE ALL CHRISTIANS!!!"
and EXPOSE!!???!!!??? HELLO YOU IDIOT, SEVERAL SEVERAL GOTHS RIGHT HERE TELLING YOU THAT IS NOT RIGHT. SO, TAKE THE WORD OF SOME PERSON WHO NEVER MET WHO WROTE IT IN SOME BOOK YOU READ, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE, OR BELIEVE IN THE MAJORITY RULE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THE LIFESTYLE, LOVE THE MUSIC, AND HAVE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN THE SCENE???
-_- Sorry for losing my temper, but dear, use common sense... please, please do not be so easily convinced and so dreadfully hard to move. Believe what you want to believe, but don't go up to a dog saying, "you're not a dog unless you bark like this".
Alot of us here and alot of the people who started the gothic movement, or atleast helped it on it's way, are living examples of what that man said was wrong. Anyone can say anything, does not mean it is true. Reguardless, a minority or one person in a culture does NOT have the same impact or credibility as SEVERAL people in a culture. Same for everyone, same about nearly everything. Be it in court, science, or even politics.
If I offended you or anyone else, I apologize. Reguardless, if you claim that on all goths, you claim that on me and a majority of us: I personally will not be told what I am, when I already know what I am. ((That goes for everyone who is a goth, or anyone in general! Be it Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Polytheist, Monotheist, Wiccan, ext.!)) |
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:32 pm
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:34 pm
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Alexi Vonaley Zahmen II Luz Melian I'm a Christian and goth, so obviously it doesn't apply for me. And I thought at least people in this guild [when not the general population] are informed enough to know that the subculture was based on a musical genre and no religious affiliation whatsoever. If there's a tendency to certain beliefs among goths, I believe a lot are agnostics or atheists, but the Satanists are a rather smaller part. And of course there are also Christians and other theists too; it doesn't matter as long as you have passion for the music. I'm just quoting an expose on the gothic subculture written by a reformed Goth. Look it up! Research from books which are simply the words of one man, whoever it may be. Time goes on, perspectives change, branch out, adapt. Its roots may be based in Satanism, but such is not necessarily the case now.
Still, hardly a reason to debate over.
I think the reason alot of us are "debating" is because that is highly offensive to some of us, and some more of us have experienced road-blocks in our lifetime due to this thought... Things like beliefs are very personal issues, and I think we are also just all reminding ourselves of several things, be it things we have gone through, our own thoughts, or how our individual views about things clash with some parts of society.
It is natural for people to want to defend what matters to them, that is why he is defending his view on the Satanist issue, and that is why we are defending our views. |
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