Open or Concealed Carry?

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I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.

I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.

Sure it's actually a holster, but you remove a gun from its holster to fire it. The holdster stays on the gun at all times, so it's easier to think of it as a monogrip.

"NAA"? I feel like I should know the abbreviation, but it eludes me.

It also makes the thing look just like a wallet. Imagine that without the extended mag base and you've got a better idea. Having fired one, I gotta say it was surprisingly controllable. Moreso than the mini-1911 in .380 that I fired next. You just have to get used to it.

It's a holster by law, I consider it a holster.

North American Arms. More specifically, what they are famous for, their micro-revolvers, usually in .22WMR, and more recently micro-pistols in new calibers like .32NAA.

I've seen the pictures a zillion times. It would still make it an AOW if they made it cover the slide.

You're no fun.

Right. They make a lot of derringers, no?

And the Serbu would be illegal if it were made from old shotguns, and .51DTC would be illegal if it were a millimeter longer and named .50BMG. I fail to see your point. Why is the fact that it's barely not restricted a good or a bad thing if it's unlikely it'll become illegal soon?  

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I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.

Sure it's actually a holster, but you remove a gun from its holster to fire it. The holdster stays on the gun at all times, so it's easier to think of it as a monogrip.

"NAA"? I feel like I should know the abbreviation, but it eludes me.

It also makes the thing look just like a wallet. Imagine that without the extended mag base and you've got a better idea. Having fired one, I gotta say it was surprisingly controllable. Moreso than the mini-1911 in .380 that I fired next. You just have to get used to it.

It's a holster by law, I consider it a holster.

North American Arms. More specifically, what they are famous for, their micro-revolvers, usually in .22WMR, and more recently micro-pistols in new calibers like .32NAA.

I've seen the pictures a zillion times. It would still make it an AOW if they made it cover the slide.

You're no fun.

Right. They make a lot of derringers, no?

And the Serbu would be illegal if it were made from old shotguns, and .51DTC would be illegal if it were a millimeter longer and named .50BMG. I fail to see your point. Why is the fact that it's barely not restricted a good or a bad thing if it's unlikely it'll become illegal soon?

From their current offerings on their website, not anymore.

They cannibalized a common idea (at the time) and made it so it was legal.
I still don't particularly like it because it doesn't cover the trigger, and only lets me use two fingers to shoot with. Mike, the manager (really owner, but his son is the one who started the place) of Austin's Tennessee Firearms, carry a Seecamp 32 in a standard a** pocket holster in his shirt's "document pocket" (he always wears those range shirts) and it draws just fine. It looks just like a wallet while doing a** carry. Yes, I will continue to call them a** pockets and a** carry.  

[Fresnel]

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I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.

Sure it's actually a holster, but you remove a gun from its holster to fire it. The holdster stays on the gun at all times, so it's easier to think of it as a monogrip.

"NAA"? I feel like I should know the abbreviation, but it eludes me.

It also makes the thing look just like a wallet. Imagine that without the extended mag base and you've got a better idea. Having fired one, I gotta say it was surprisingly controllable. Moreso than the mini-1911 in .380 that I fired next. You just have to get used to it.

It's a holster by law, I consider it a holster.

North American Arms. More specifically, what they are famous for, their micro-revolvers, usually in .22WMR, and more recently micro-pistols in new calibers like .32NAA.

I've seen the pictures a zillion times. It would still make it an AOW if they made it cover the slide.

You're no fun.

Right. They make a lot of derringers, no?

And the Serbu would be illegal if it were made from old shotguns, and .51DTC would be illegal if it were a millimeter longer and named .50BMG. I fail to see your point. Why is the fact that it's barely not restricted a good or a bad thing if it's unlikely it'll become illegal soon?

From their current offerings on their website, not anymore.

They cannibalized a common idea (at the time) and made it so it was legal.
I still don't particularly like it because it doesn't cover the trigger, and only lets me use two fingers to shoot with. Mike, the manager (really owner, but his son is the one who started the place) of Austin's Tennessee Firearms, carry a Seecamp 32 in a standard a** pocket holster in his shirt's "document pocket" (he always wears those range shirts) and it draws just fine. It looks just like a wallet while doing a** carry. Yes, I will continue to call them a** pockets and a** carry.

The trick is, with a black pistol and black leather, you can make the thing look like a wallet AFTER it's drawn, too. The effect is doubled if you duracoat the gun leather brown and use the brown holdster, too. Nobody expects a leather-colored gun. And no, it doesn't cover the trigger, but if something rips a hole through your a** pocket and pulls the trigger on you, you would have gotten a half-inch long AND deep gash on your a** anyway, so a .380 graze on the cheek and muzzle burn is still a win. Your a** pocket is the holster. Like I said, it makes more sense as a monogrip than a holster. It was not meant to replace the holster at all.

And trust me, even with two fingers, you've got a wide grip base which gives you a lot of leverage to combat muzzle flip, and it's still only a .380. Like I said, it's remarkably controllable.  

[Das Rabble Rouser]

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.  

[Fresnel]

Das Rabble Rouser

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.

Yeah... I gotta say, if I were going balls-out to rob a Burger King and I wasn't above killing someone, I'd start off the robbery with a bullet in the head of the guy with a gun on his hip. No "this is a robbery!", just *blam* "everybody on the ******** floor!"  

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Das Rabble Rouser

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.

Yeah... I gotta say, if I were going balls-out to rob a Burger King and I wasn't above killing someone, I'd start off the robbery with a bullet in the head of the guy with a gun on his hip. No "this is a robbery!", just *blam* "everybody on the ******** floor!"

Paranoia.

Point out a case in history this has ever happened.

It hasn't.


Remember, shiny side out.

I reiterate.
Criminals aren't the bravest, or most dedicated of people. They would avoid a hard target like the plague if there are softer targets available elsewhere.  

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Das Rabble Rouser

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.

Yeah... I gotta say, if I were going balls-out to rob a Burger King and I wasn't above killing someone, I'd start off the robbery with a bullet in the head of the guy with a gun on his hip. No "this is a robbery!", just *blam* "everybody on the ******** floor!"

Paranoia.

Point out a case in history this has ever happened.

It hasn't.


Remember, shiny side out.

I reiterate.
Criminals aren't the bravest, or most dedicated of people. They would avoid a hard target like the plague if there are softer targets available elsewhere.

Oh yes, because nobody's ever shot a guard during a bank robbery. Such things are inconceivable.  

[Floyd]

This has always been a hard call for me.

Personally, I'm in favor of carry concealed. But this isn't a hard and fast rule. Conditions may demand an open show of potential force, which can make a weak minded robber cut and run.

Several friends who still live in rural Arizona have regaled me with first person accounts of confrontations that were cut short with the realization that he would have to pay a dear price for anything the robber might get otherwise. Mostly attempted carjackings in bar parking lots.

I'm always shocked to hear of someone stupid enough to rob an honest gun owner in AZ. But it does happen.  

[Das Rabble Rouser]

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Das Rabble Rouser

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.

Yeah... I gotta say, if I were going balls-out to rob a Burger King and I wasn't above killing someone, I'd start off the robbery with a bullet in the head of the guy with a gun on his hip. No "this is a robbery!", just *blam* "everybody on the ******** floor!"

Paranoia.

Point out a case in history this has ever happened.

It hasn't.


Remember, shiny side out.

I reiterate.
Criminals aren't the bravest, or most dedicated of people. They would avoid a hard target like the plague if there are softer targets available elsewhere.

As I said before IF I were going to do it that would be my first move.  

[uryu ishida]

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Das Rabble Rouser

If I were going to rob a burger king or something I'd probably check for anyone open carrying first. Concealed carry is somewhat of a blind risk we're taking but an obviously armed target would be wise to disarm first.

Yeah... I gotta say, if I were going balls-out to rob a Burger King and I wasn't above killing someone, I'd start off the robbery with a bullet in the head of the guy with a gun on his hip. No "this is a robbery!", just *blam* "everybody on the ******** floor!"

Paranoia.

Point out a case in history this has ever happened.

It hasn't.


Remember, shiny side out.

I reiterate.
Criminals aren't the bravest, or most dedicated of people. They would avoid a hard target like the plague if there are softer targets available elsewhere.

Oh yes, because nobody's ever shot a guard during a bank robbery. Such things are inconceivable.

And a bank is tons different than a burger King. They are going after EXPONENTIALLY LARGER amounts of money, and know their are cameras. The average robber or criminal doesn't go after a BANK, they go after much softer targets. If the average p***y of a criminal has the balls to rob a bank, a ******** more would get robbed and a ******** more people would get killed.
you can what-if your way to the goddamn moon, it's all paranoia. Go ask OpenCarry.org how many of their members were shot or were targeted because they open carried.  

[Wolf Nightshade]

I have a permit and I prefer to be concealed it's less of a hassle and we are not supposed to carry in certain areas. While concealed I go wherever I want and no one ever knows. During the class we were told we don't have a law stating any real punishment for being caught in an area marked as gun free. I do not like people to know I have weapons yet I don't go out of my way to hide it. I carry under my jacket, vest or shirt on a windy day it's sometimes visible the permit to me is just legal backup. I carry a knife that is considered illegal and have carried such things for years this is the only time I have carried legally. I think if you carry openly there are good and bad points but I feel for me the down side is to great. If someone is watching and plans to do something they may see your weapon and before you know whats going on you have been singled out for attack. I have trained in martial arts for years and it has been one of our lessons to keep such training to ourselves. I don't much but few people I meet ever think I have training.

It draws to much attention I would rather have the upper hand in a situation. I am trying to think of a good quote but can't anyway I will put it this way I would rather be the wolf in sheep's clothing then stand out amongst the heard. I can not tell you how many times I have shocked people when they realized I have been training in martial arts for 9 years yet alone the times I took off my jacket and people realized I was packing a full sized Beretta 92FS.  

[Fresnel]

Wolf Nightshade

I carry a knife that is considered illegal and have carried such things for years this is the only time I have carried legally.

Hear that cheery jingle outside your window? That's not an ice cream van, it's a party waiting to happen.  

[I am an eggplant]

Concealed. While I support everyone's right to open carry, I would rather blend in and not upset the sheeple every time I run to wal-mart. It's just not worth the headache to me. While you may think AL would be a firearm friendly state, most people here freak out at the thought of anything other than a deer rifle.
Besides, I'm in love with my Comp-tac Minotaur. I've never worn a OWB that comfortable.  

[Crash Maniac]

concealed, i have my reasons.

mainly P.C. 417, brandishing a weapon.

Unless your in uniform, most people here, and where i used to live in washington... when they see someone with a weapon on their hip, usually call PD, and it ends up with you (me) having to explain to the police MY rights.

other than that little reason... i have my preferences.