Umm...WTF?

[Fresnel]

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Sgt Buckner

http://www.defensereview.com/srss-bulldog762-762mm-bullpup-m14m1a-battle-rifle-goes-to-combat/

It is sexy, looks awesome, and I want BAD.

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

 

[Variola Major]

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Sgt Buckner

http://www.defensereview.com/srss-bulldog762-762mm-bullpup-m14m1a-battle-rifle-goes-to-combat/

It is sexy, looks awesome, and I want BAD.

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.  

[Variola Major]

Fresnel

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Sgt Buckner

http://www.defensereview.com/srss-bulldog762-762mm-bullpup-m14m1a-battle-rifle-goes-to-combat/

It is sexy, looks awesome, and I want BAD.

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

Nice pick, but my imaginary Tavor says ******** you, too.  

[Mr Savoy]

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Sgt Buckner

http://www.defensereview.com/srss-bulldog762-762mm-bullpup-m14m1a-battle-rifle-goes-to-combat/

It is sexy, looks awesome, and I want BAD.

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral  

[Variola Major]

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral

The Tavor is not overrated. Sure, some of the bullpups out there are overrated and have issues, and it's a difficult design to get right, but the Tavor and the FAMAS (The newer versions. The older FAMAS is a piece of s**t, but the new generation of FAMAS rifles fixes the older one's issues, including the shitty trigger pull. Also, the new generation uses a UGBL instead of the older one's rifle grenades.) are both combat proven designs that work well and reliably in the field and have excellent balance.  

[Mr Savoy]

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

You just lost all the respect I ever had for you.

What? Bullpups are awesome.

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral

The Tavor is not overrated. Sure, some of the bullpups out there are overrated and have issues, and it's a difficult design to get right, but the Tavor and the FAMAS (The newer versions. The older FAMAS is a piece of s**t, but the new generation of FAMAS rifles fixes the older one's issues, including the shitty trigger pull. Also, the new generation uses a UGBL instead of the older one's rifle grenades.) are both combat proven designs that work well and reliably in the field and have excellent balance.

But still can't hold any candles to the Sig 550, M14, M16, M4, M1 Garand, K-31, SMLE, Mosin-Nagant, M1 Carbine, AK-47, K98, FN FAL, SCAR, ACR, etc.

Also, if it malfunctions catastrophically, instead of leaving you without a hand, it leaves you without a HEAD.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral

The Tavor is not overrated. Sure, some of the bullpups out there are overrated and have issues, and it's a difficult design to get right, but the Tavor and the FAMAS (The newer versions. The older FAMAS is a piece of s**t, but the new generation of FAMAS rifles fixes the older one's issues, including the shitty trigger pull. Also, the new generation uses a UGBL instead of the older one's rifle grenades.) are both combat proven designs that work well and reliably in the field and have excellent balance.

But still can't hold any candles to the Sig 550, M14, M16, M4, M1 Garand, K-31, SMLE, Mosin-Nagant, M1 Carbine, AK-47, K98, FN FAL, SCAR, ACR, etc.

Also, if it malfunctions catastrophically, instead of leaving you without a hand, it leaves you without a HEAD.

1. Don't compare battle rifles (Garand, Mauser, Nagant, SMLE, FAL, M14) to an assault rifle. They're very different weapons.

2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

4. The F2000 is a sexy rifle.  

[Mr Savoy]

Requiem in Mortis

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

The IMI Tavor I want but don't have says ******** you.

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral

The Tavor is not overrated. Sure, some of the bullpups out there are overrated and have issues, and it's a difficult design to get right, but the Tavor and the FAMAS (The newer versions. The older FAMAS is a piece of s**t, but the new generation of FAMAS rifles fixes the older one's issues, including the shitty trigger pull. Also, the new generation uses a UGBL instead of the older one's rifle grenades.) are both combat proven designs that work well and reliably in the field and have excellent balance.

But still can't hold any candles to the Sig 550, M14, M16, M4, M1 Garand, K-31, SMLE, Mosin-Nagant, M1 Carbine, AK-47, K98, FN FAL, SCAR, ACR, etc.

Also, if it malfunctions catastrophically, instead of leaving you without a hand, it leaves you without a HEAD.

1. Don't compare battle rifles (Garand, Mauser, Nagant, SMLE, FAL, M14) to an assault rifle. They're very different weapons.

Bigger cartridges. Besides, we are talking about bullpup M14's in this thread.

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

Quote:

3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

The bullpup design is a stupid idea. It makes the whole rifle shorter by putting the shooter[/t] at more risk during malfunctions, most of them have s**t balance that makes it feel like you're shouldering a whiffle bat from a lead handle, (AUG feels good, though,) and if a gun like the F2000 jams, you have to fields strip the damn thing to get it working again.

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4. The F2000 is a sexy rifle.

No. No, it isn't. It's goofy-lookin'.  

[Variola Major]

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

I dunno where Rquiem got that idea that the AR platform is s**t, but I would point out that the M4 and M16 are being fully replaced by the Tavor in Israeli service. They tested the M4 and Tavor side-by-side, and even deployed a unit into combat with the Tavor to see how well it would do, and concluded that the Tavor was the better rifle. I'm sure that counts for something. Also, the FAMAS is very popular with it's users. The French soldiers love it, especially for it's superb reliability under battlefield conditions.

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3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

The bullpup design is a stupid idea. It makes the whole rifle shorter by putting the shooter[/t] at more risk during malfunctions, most of them have s**t balance that makes it feel like you're shouldering a whiffle bat from a lead handle, (AUG feels good, though,) and if a gun like the F2000 jams, you have to fields strip the damn thing to get it working again.

Explosive malfuctions such as that are extremely rare. How often do assault rifles explode during firing? Not enough to worry about it. If they did, nobody would use them for fear of losing a hand. Second, read up on the Tavor and FAMAS. Both are said to be pretty well balanced. Third, the F2000 does not represent all bullpup assault rifles.  

[Fresnel]

Variola Major

Quote:

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

I dunno where Rquiem got that idea that the AR platform is s**t, but I would point out that the M4 and M16 are being fully replaced by the Tavor in Israeli service. They tested the M4 and Tavor side-by-side, and even deployed a unit into combat with the Tavor to see how well it would do, and concluded that the Tavor was the better rifle. I'm sure that counts for something. Also, the FAMAS is very popular with it's users. The French soldiers love it, especially for it's superb reliability under battlefield conditions.

Quote:

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3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

The bullpup design is a stupid idea. It makes the whole rifle shorter by putting the shooter[/t] at more risk during malfunctions, most of them have s**t balance that makes it feel like you're shouldering a whiffle bat from a lead handle, (AUG feels good, though,) and if a gun like the F2000 jams, you have to fields strip the damn thing to get it working again.

Explosive malfuctions such as that are extremely rare. How often do assault rifles explode during firing? Not enough to worry about it. If they did, nobody would use them for fear of losing a hand. Second, read up on the Tavor and FAMAS. Both are said to be pretty well balanced. Third, the F2000 does not represent all bullpup assault rifles.One word: Nepotism. We put the M14 in service, too.

I've personally seen three rifles explode: two ARs and an M1A. Both the ARs destroyed the bolt carrier and magazine, but the rest was fully salvageable. The M1A cracked in ******** half, splintered the action and stock, and the magazine came out the TOP of the rifle, trumpeted. BAD idea to make it a bullpup.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

Variola Major

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

I dunno where Rquiem got that idea that the AR platform is s**t,

I never said they're s**t, I said they're s**t WHEN COMPARED to other rifles. You have to admit, a lot of assault rifles are a lot more reliable than the AR-pattern rifles.

That, and I've talked to people who served in the Army, and they have said that given the opportunity, they would've taken a different rifle over the M16/M4 for reliability. It's good for what it's used for, but there are much better weapons out there.  

[Buki_Actual]

Mr Savoy

Requiem in Mortis

Mr Savoy

Variola Major

Mr Savoy

Well, you too, overrated bullpup. neutral

The Tavor is not overrated. Sure, some of the bullpups out there are overrated and have issues, and it's a difficult design to get right, but the Tavor and the FAMAS (The newer versions. The older FAMAS is a piece of s**t, but the new generation of FAMAS rifles fixes the older one's issues, including the shitty trigger pull. Also, the new generation uses a UGBL instead of the older one's rifle grenades.) are both combat proven designs that work well and reliably in the field and have excellent balance.

But still can't hold any candles to the Sig 550, M14, M16, M4, M1 Garand, K-31, SMLE, Mosin-Nagant, M1 Carbine, AK-47, K98, FN FAL, SCAR, ACR, etc.

Also, if it malfunctions catastrophically, instead of leaving you without a hand, it leaves you without a HEAD.

1. Don't compare battle rifles (Garand, Mauser, Nagant, SMLE, FAL, M14) to an assault rifle. They're very different weapons.

Bigger cartridges. Besides, we are talking about bullpup M14's in this thread.

Quote:

2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

Quote:

3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

The bullpup design is a stupid idea. It makes the whole rifle shorter by putting the shooter[/t] at more risk during malfunctions, most of them have s**t balance that makes it feel like you're shouldering a whiffle bat from a lead handle, (AUG feels good, though,) and if a gun like the F2000 jams, you have to fields strip the damn thing to get it working again.

Quote:

4. The F2000 is a sexy rifle.

No. No, it isn't. It's goofy-lookin'.

Sam Fisher disagrees.  

[Variola Major]

Fresnel

Variola Major

Quote:

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

I dunno where Rquiem got that idea that the AR platform is s**t, but I would point out that the M4 and M16 are being fully replaced by the Tavor in Israeli service. They tested the M4 and Tavor side-by-side, and even deployed a unit into combat with the Tavor to see how well it would do, and concluded that the Tavor was the better rifle. I'm sure that counts for something. Also, the FAMAS is very popular with it's users. The French soldiers love it, especially for it's superb reliability under battlefield conditions.

Quote:

Quote:

3. The bullpup design is a solid idea. It allows for a smaller, more compact weapon with the same-length barrel- basically, it's a carbine with a rifle barrel. The biggest problem I can think of is casings ejecting into your face if you hold a bullpup meant for a right-handed shooter in your left hand, but some bullpups solve this by having an ejection port on both sides that can be used with slight modification (AUG and Tavor), pushing the round forward down a tube before ejecting it (F2000), or ejecting out the bottom (P90).

The bullpup design is a stupid idea. It makes the whole rifle shorter by putting the shooter[/t] at more risk during malfunctions, most of them have s**t balance that makes it feel like you're shouldering a whiffle bat from a lead handle, (AUG feels good, though,) and if a gun like the F2000 jams, you have to fields strip the damn thing to get it working again.

Explosive malfuctions such as that are extremely rare. How often do assault rifles explode during firing? Not enough to worry about it. If they did, nobody would use them for fear of losing a hand. Second, read up on the Tavor and FAMAS. Both are said to be pretty well balanced. Third, the F2000 does not represent all bullpup assault rifles.

One word: Nepotism. We put the M14 in service, too.

I've personally seen three rifles explode: two ARs and an M1A. Both the ARs destroyed the bolt carrier and magazine, but the rest was fully salvageable. The M1A cracked in ******** half, splintered the action and stock, and the magazine came out the TOP of the rifle, trumpeted. BAD idea to make it a bullpup.Again, how often do you actually hear of that s**t happening (with standard or conventional designs) in military service? Almost never. Perhaps because it's not a legitimate concern. Really, you're just being paranoid. The chances of such a malfunction are astronomical If it were a legitimate concern, you'd hear the reports of it happening. Guess what? You don't.  

[Tier One OPERATOR]

You know, catastrophic failures aren't really common at all beyond stress testing in a rifle that's being treated right. By which I mean not fed s**t, not fed more than it can chew, operating with a clear action (not clean, just not clogged up). Most serious failures- INCLUDING the infamous Glock kB! failures- are due in a large part to operator error in feeding s**t it's not rated for.  

[Tier One OPERATOR]

Requiem in Mortis

Variola Major

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2. The M16 and M4 are s**t compared to the other assault rifles you listed, and to MOST assault rifles, period. Given the choice between a Tavor and an M16, I'd take the Tavor.

Most DMR's in Iraq love the M16, and the M4 is only going to be replaced by other carbines that aren't bullpups. Also, where'd you get the idea that they're s**t?

I dunno where Rquiem got that idea that the AR platform is s**t,

I never said they're s**t, I said they're s**t WHEN COMPARED to other rifles. You have to admit, a lot of assault rifles are a lot more reliable than the AR-pattern rifles.

That, and I've talked to people who served in the Army, and they have said that given the opportunity, they would've taken a different rifle over the M16/M4 for reliability. It's good for what it's used for, but there are much better weapons out there.

Most of the trouble is that we could really just use new weapons. Like stope recycling receivers with new s**t put in them, jsut new rifles from the ground up. Since we're never going to get those, they need a new model. The major reliability issue other than wobbly rifles- s**t mags- has been fixed by the mass unofficial and soon to be official adoption of PMAGs, and self-levelling followers.

And yes, given druthers, we'd all drive Escalades and Camaros. Joe wants bigger and better things. I'm not saying we shouldn't replace the M4 and so on, but most problems would be handled by completely renewing the inventory.