input requested : ban vs remove users - new functionality?

[Pandora Riddlebox]

wesden

jax is in love

i think we should also have a suspension option so we can give a warning to problem members and giving them time away from the guild to cool down

that would be new and different functionality smile We're trying to bite off what we can chew in a 2 weeks period. I've added it to the list (which also has mass select on it, too) for future enhancements.

How bout you quit avoiding the announcement problem and FIX IT!  

[wesden]

Pilotslover

No point in doing any of it if members CAN'T see the announcements sent because they end up buried under the other crap on the 'my Gaia' page. Lets have the announcements back in their own bubble before we talk about changing anything else.

Well, that and bringing the guilds up to date with the rest of the site. 3nodding

As I mentioned in the SF My Gaia feedback threads, we are not making any more changes at this time. I understand this is change that some guild members do not agree with, but we will continue to keep this on the list of items to watch for possible future enhancements. It's not that we're not listening, (we've made several changes based on user feedback), we truly feel it is working as designed and will revisit feedback as we move along.

We designed notice settings to help refine users' notices and based on other users' feedback, they appreciate the ability to focus on what is important to them. I'll provide any updates when we revisit the My Gaia changes in the future.  

[Pilotslover]

It's not working as designed if people are still complaining about it ...

Look, you gave us the mass PM's and we're thankful for it but you also completely nullified it by moving them in with all the other notices; the other notices are not paid for, these are and should therefore be seen.

So, yeah, pointless introducing a minimum post ban system if people can't see the initial announcement to tell them its being instigated; I've heard people say that they've gone back to sending individual PM's again rather then using the announcement system, sorry but that's NOT how it should be done.  

[Pandora Riddlebox]

ninja

You really should listen to the captains. They are very pissed.  

[Tantooden]

- Does it make sense to have this feature? icon_smile.gif

Yes, very much, also is very desired.

- Other than inactivity, what activity would make you want to remove users - but NOT ban them?

Minor troubles inside the guild:
1.- Temper issues
2.- Complain about activities inside the guild without giving a good feedback.

In short things that could ruin the spirit of the guild.
Edit: This would be almost the same as what Jax has proposed

- We would most probably follow the ban form format (optional reason free form box) for the remove, would it be easier to have a checkbox for "due to inactivity" if that's the most common use case?

Both ideas are good though I'd believe that mostly of the users gonna pick the inactivity by common reaction and also to not have a headache thinking about other issues.

- Banned users currently get a PM, we would send a PM for the remove as well with the reason.

I think not if this were caused by the inactivity issue. Though there could be an option to allow the crew to send it specifying the reason for and also will suppose to be the second chance to rejoin and pay a bit of more attention to the guild.  

[diversaurus]

Pilotslover

It's not working as designed if people are still complaining about it ...

Look, you gave us the mass PM's and we're thankful for it but you also completely nullified it by moving them in with all the other notices; the other notices are not paid for, these are and should therefore be seen.

So, yeah, pointless introducing a minimum post ban system if people can't see the initial announcement to tell them its being instigated; I've heard people say that they've gone back to sending individual PM's again rather then using the announcement system, sorry but that's NOT how it should be done.

I see your point totally. Let me chat and discuss with other folks here to see where we stand on that.  

[Pilotslover]

diversaurus

Pilotslover

It's not working as designed if people are still complaining about it ...

Look, you gave us the mass PM's and we're thankful for it but you also completely nullified it by moving them in with all the other notices; the other notices are not paid for, these are and should therefore be seen.

So, yeah, pointless introducing a minimum post ban system if people can't see the initial announcement to tell them its being instigated; I've heard people say that they've gone back to sending individual PM's again rather then using the announcement system, sorry but that's NOT how it should be done.

I see your point totally. Let me chat and discuss with other folks here to see where we stand on that.

Thank you, please keep us updated.  

[iBobby Dillon MULE]

wesden

Some users have brought up that sometimes they would like to remove users from a guild (do to inactivity, for example) and that banning is too severe. Given that's the only option right now (and that it has implications on trying to join the guild again - if you are banned, you must be invited to join the guild or be unbanned) we'd like to add a "remove user" option.

Couple questions for you:

- does it make sense to have this feature? smile
- other than inactivity, what activity would make you want to remove users - but NOT ban them?
- we would most probably follow the ban form format (optional reason free form box) for the remove, would it be easier to have a checkbox for "due to inactivity" if that's the most common use case?
- banned users currently get a PM, we would send a PM for the remove as well with the reason.

Hoping to get this fixed during our fixathon!
Thanks smile

Sorry, but isn't the Spring Cleaning going to affect the Member List? And you can select how many days/weeks a Member can be banned from your Guild? neutral Like a Punishment or something, as mentioned in the Developers Thread? neutral  

[mamarita]

Looks like we have another developer on our guild, so welcome diversaurus. But I have to agree with everyone, hope the rest of the development team does too, we pay for the priviledge to send announcements and therefore, they should be in a bubble,either as guild announcement or at least as an annoucement!  

[Pandora Riddlebox]

diversaurus

Pilotslover

It's not working as designed if people are still complaining about it ...

Look, you gave us the mass PM's and we're thankful for it but you also completely nullified it by moving them in with all the other notices; the other notices are not paid for, these are and should therefore be seen.

So, yeah, pointless introducing a minimum post ban system if people can't see the initial announcement to tell them its being instigated; I've heard people say that they've gone back to sending individual PM's again rather then using the announcement system, sorry but that's NOT how it should be done.

I see your point totally. Let me chat and discuss with other folks here to see where we stand on that.

Please and Thank you  

[Ebania]

I'd just like to express how very grateful I am to the team of developers who have worked hard on guilds as of late. Guild announcements is quite honestly the most promising feature you've implemented in the GGN for quite some time, but as the vice captain of the Newbie Supporting and Training Guild, I do have some things to say regarding the way guild announcements no longer have their own bubbles in the header.

We sent out our first monthly newsletter in early January of 2010, and it linked to January's Monthly Survey. The poll received 123 votes in a one-month period and February's received 79. The new My Gaia changes -- including the guild announcements issue -- was implemented in early to mid April. The poll in April's Monthly Survey only received 59 votes. We rarely obtain more than 60 votes anymore, and I do believe that that can be attributed to the fact getting important information to our members is both cumbersome and frustrating to them. Many people turn off notifications or ignore them altogether -- especially in our guild, where most of our user population is composed of newbies who may not know any better. How is making My Gaia a "hub of activity" (despite the fact that clans get their own bubbles and despite the fact that guild announcements cost thousands of gold to send) convenient for us or for our newbie members?

These are not "notices" or "notifications." These are important messages with important information about upcoming events, new features, new guild rules, new policies, and new opportunities for our members to share their opinions with us, the crew. The gold can be replenished; 11,000g isn't even a big deal for anyone on our crew. But the fact that our members either don't know or don't want to bother with going through multiple clicks just to read a newsletter -- THAT is a problem that only you, the developers, can fix.  

[Pandora Riddlebox]

Ebony the Peacian

I'd just like to express how very grateful I am to the team of developers who have worked hard on guilds as of late. Guild announcements is quite honestly the most promising feature you've implemented in the GGN for quite some time, but as the vice captain of the Newbie Supporting and Training Guild, I do have some things to say regarding the way guild announcements no longer have their own bubbles in the header.

We sent out our first monthly newsletter in early January of 2010, and it linked to January's Monthly Survey. The poll received 123 votes in a one-month period and February's received 79. The new My Gaia changes -- including the guild announcements issue -- was implemented in early to mid April. The poll in April's Monthly Survey only received 59 votes. We rarely obtain more than 60 votes anymore, and I do believe that that can be attributed to the fact getting important information to our members is both cumbersome and frustrating to them. Many people turn off notifications or ignore them altogether -- especially in our guild, where most of our user population is composed of newbies who may not know any better. How is making My Gaia a "hub of activity" (despite the fact that clans get their own bubbles and despite the fact that guild announcements cost thousands of gold to send) convenient for us or for our newbie members?

These are not "notices" or "notifications." These are important messages with important information about upcoming events, new features, new guild rules, new policies, and new opportunities for our members to share their opinions with us, the crew. The gold can be replenished; 11,000g isn't even a big deal for anyone on our crew. But the fact that our members either don't know or don't want to bother with going through multiple clicks just to read a newsletter -- THAT is a problem that only you, the developers, can fix.

You tell em, ebony.  

[Pilotslover]

* applauds Ebony* thank you, you've just proven the point I was making all along.  

[Ebania]

Aww, thanks, guys. redface heart I'm glad that you see some value in my own input. I truly am grateful to the developers for everything they've done for us so far, and for taking note of the problems we've been having for several years now. Better late than never, right? But the thing is that there are still problems in the GGN that can be fixed -- that should be fixed -- if all of us work together and communicate our feelings effectively.

Our developers are already aware of how much potential the GGN has. Guilds are, in essence, little versions of Gaia -- run by normal users like you and me! -- which offer us opportunities to foster a deeper sense of community among fellow Gaians in a uniquely intimate environment. On a website that's about forming friendships, discussing our interests, playing games, and having fun -- guilds are vital because they offer Gaians like you and me the opportunity to be creative, diplomatic, dedicated leaders or members of a community that is tight-knit and focused on a specific goal or passion. The public forums cannot offer that to everyone, whereas guilds can.

We as guild leaders -- as everyone here knows -- know that the most challenging part of managing a guild is not getting members to join, but rather, getting them to stay. And we have been begging Gaia, for years, for the tools we need in order to facilitate that. Everything was great several months ago, when guild announcements were introduced; they were absolutely perfect in every way (to me). They had their own bubble in the header, they put to use some of our guild's funds, they got our members involved in contests, polls, games, and charities, and they gave us the ability to communicate effectively with over 47,000 people with the click of a button. Thousands of people read that newsletter (I should have taken a screenshot of the Photobucket stats in January, damn), but now, we're lucky to even reach several hundred views. And several years ago, guilds were exciting and fun for everyone -- even our newer members.

And it's not that our members are uninterested or busy. We receive join requests all the time, and we have several dozen members who have made the NSTG their Gaia home. Ultimately, I find that they're the ones who inspire me the most to post things like this in an attempt to show Gaia's wonderful staff just how important these members are to me. The NSTG is my Gaia home -- no, it's my home on the internet. I am safe and comfortable and welcome there, and I love my NSTG family.

This is the fruit of the unfortunate combination of numerous factors -- clustering guild announcements with notices, the outdated look of guilds (not just the homepage, but everything -- including posting), the inability to perform certain functions (such as looking at a member's past guild posts; subscribing to guild threads; directly reporting ToS-violating topics; assigning crewmembers to specific subforums; the deletion, easy navigation, and efficient organizing of subforums; etc.), the fact that site-wide forum events don't also take place in guild forums, leaving guilds pretty quiet during Christmastime and Halloween, which is when crewmembers go all out and spend thousands of gold on prizes and events.

Guilds are important to your community, and we appreciate the fact that you're trying to implement features that will appeal to us and that you're trying to tidy guilds up a bit. We really like that, and we love you guys for it.

But what we don't like is that, when you had something perfect, you just ripped it away from us and defeated the whole purpose of having created guild announcements anyway. What we don't like is that, despite the fact that I pushed so hard for your consideration of the Guilds Look & Feel part of Spring Cleaning, the homepage is really all you could consider changing. What about bringing our forums and posting up to speed with the public forums, so that we can decorate our threads and posts in the same way we can in the public forums? What about giving crewmembers meaningful features -- like the ability to search a member's posts, which may contain inappropriate material, or the ability to directly report a thread containing pornography or racist remarks (both of which I've seen in my two years in the NSTG) to the Gaia Online authorities? We thank you sincerely for the distinction between removing and banning members, but at the same time, we still need some more weapons to fight crime, y'know? Batman can't defeat the Joker with a slingshot, so how can we take down trolls and report scammers without our own array of tools?

It should not be this hard to keep our members safe and happy, Gaia. It should not be a chore to keep our guild updated, pretty, active, welcoming, and protected. But right now -- it is. And we're asking you to please make some changes. Listen to your users. Answer their questions directly, even if the answer is "I don't know" or "Nobody knows just yet" or "I'll have to ask my supervisor and I'll get back to you." Look around for petitions; believe me, guys, there are tons of them.

The GGN is calling for meaningful, real change. And I know that the summer event is coming up and that you guys are extremely busy, but five years of neglecting this part of your site is not good. It's not okay. We, your supportive members who want to enjoy your site to its fullest and who want to make friends and have fun, deserve better.  

[Pilotslover]

Thank you for once again surmising what a lot of us have been saying.

With new developers taking interest in what I will call 'our cause' for want of a better way of saying it, I hope that things change back to what they were before when they were fully functional.

I don't understand Gaia's obsession with the My Gaia page ... even now I don't look at it more then once per session because I just don't find it all that useful.