i'm lost...

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Yeah, I get around the "Gnostics don't worship the god of Abraham" because they're descended from his religion, but the syncretic religions leave me dumbfounded.  

[Esiris]

Sanguina Cruenta

Yeah, I get around the "Gnostics don't worship the god of Abraham" because they're descended from his religion, but the syncretic religions leave me dumbfounded.

I've seen some pagan authors call them pagan. Most of them are tied in with Christianity, so I guess it depends on if Christians would consider it heretical but not worth kicking them out or if it's worthy of excommunication.  

[Anannsul]

You know... I've been reading up definitions of Eclectic witchcraft.

To make sure that it's correct it's basically someone who picks and chooses from different things and creates a more personalized form of witchcraft that meets ones needs.

if this is true... then I feel I may have been this all along and just never knew it. o.o  

[Esiris]

Anannsul

You know... I've been reading up definitions of Eclectic witchcraft.

To make sure that it's correct it's basically someone who picks and chooses from different things and creates a more personalized form of witchcraft that meets ones needs.

if this is true... then I feel I may have been this all along and just never knew it. o.o

That is a good possibility.
The tricky thing with being Eclectic (I'm eclectic) is doing it in a good way. It's easy to see something we like and take it- but sometimes people do it in a way that shames the very thing they loved.  

[too2sweet]

Anannsul

You know... I've been reading up definitions of Eclectic witchcraft.

To make sure that it's correct it's basically someone who picks and chooses from different things and creates a more personalized form of witchcraft that meets ones needs.

if this is true... then I feel I may have been this all along and just never knew it. o.o

Being Eclectic is perfectly fine, the key as Esiris mentioned is making sure that the other cultures and paths that one is drawing their practices/beliefs from, are actually open to being "borrowed", and that such "borrowing" is done in a respectful way. Usually if one is mixing and matching, it means that one has to be fairly well versed what they are taking from, to know enough on if it will be compatible with, whatever else they are mixing with.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Exactly. Some things don't make sense once you take them our of their original contexts - like runes. So if you can't preserve that cultural relevance with these things you shouldn't take them. They won't make sense anyway and misuse usually offends those who practice whatever closer to its original context.

You have to think about everything you do for that reason. For you, you have to read and understand the relevant myths on dragons, what entities that word applies to, what dragons do and do not like etc. So being eclectic you're relying on your own scholarship and wisdom.  

[Anannsul]

Hmm... Then maybe I'm not. XD

oh man.

*thinks*

Hmm.. i don't know anymore. hmm. Maybe you guys can help me if I explain things more clearly..

A good amount of my spells are from Silver RavenWolf. Some I found online at random witch websites. I dabble in Tarot (Dragon Deck), Dragon Runes, and Numberology. I cast circles, use sage and rosemary to spiritually cleanse houses and rooms.

*thinks more*

I draw down the moon, attempt to go astral, and communicate with spirits sometimes. When I'm open enough.

= am I just too all over the place? xD  

[Esiris]

Anannsul

Hmm... Then maybe I'm not. XD

oh man.

*thinks*

Hmm.. i don't know anymore. hmm. Maybe you guys can help me if I explain things more clearly..

A good amount of my spells are from Silver RavenWolf. Some I found online at random witch websites. I dabble in Tarot (Dragon Deck), Dragon Runes, and Numberology. I cast circles, use sage and rosemary to spiritually cleanse houses and rooms.

*thinks more*

I draw down the moon, attempt to go astral, and communicate with spirits sometimes. When I'm open enough.

= am I just too all over the place? xD

That's eclectic. Now the challenge is to be ethical while being eclectic. For example, "Drawing down the Moon" started as a practice in ancient Greece- is part of Wicca and thus became part of modern Paganism.

When you draw down the Moon, what are you doing exactly?

The use of sage to smudge is largely a Southwest Native American practice.

I'm not as familiar with Rosemary. Where did you come by that?

Depending on the numerical values, the Numerology could be any number of systems. I've mostly seen Abrahamic and Italian systems.

Back research and find where the sources for the spells from the internet came from.

I don't know what to tell you about Ravenwolf. She makes me uncomfortable when it comes to magic.

Dragon runes?  

[Viz_22]

Esiris

Viz_22

Although my path may not be considered "Wicca" in this guild, I still feel that I am Wiccan in my own right.

How so?
I would like to know what you have in common with my HPS and what is different if you're willing to talk about it.

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So if you're just confused by what they call Wicca, I don't see why you can't still call yourself a Wiccan. Does it matter that you're not within the definition? I don't think so biggrin

As a Seeker, I think this guild is working towards honoring the hard work, sacrifice and effort that is at the heart of Wiccan service. It isn't really about this guild's definition- it isn't like they just made up the definition themselves.

First off, HPS?

Well, to really speak my mind, I wrote it all in my blog *though some of it may sound mean I don't intentionally try to be mean about it. Just my personality style I guess* But I see Wicca as being available to all - and sure, I may be a Neo-Pagan thinking that or w.e or just overall seeking towards a traditional Wiccan path, but right now I'm a solitary (Wiccan to me, witch/neo-pagan to others I guess) in university in the Bible belt with no transportation of her own :/

Although, if I ever come across a coven that works for me, I'll join in a heartbeat. For now, I'm Eclectic and solitary because there really isn't much opportunity for me to find anyone *even though there's a Pagan Pride Day in my hometown (even if it's continuity is to be seen since the people organizing it have to stop after this year) I have no way of attending*

And...yeah....If you want anything else just ask?  

[Esiris]

Viz_22

First off, HPS?

It's an abrivation for High Priestess.

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Well, to really speak my mind, I wrote it all in my blog *though some of it may sound mean I don't intentionally try to be mean about it. Just my personality style I guess* But I see Wicca as being available to all - and sure, I may be a Neo-Pagan thinking that or w.e or just overall seeking towards a traditional Wiccan path, but right now I'm a solitary (Wiccan to me, witch/neo-pagan to others I guess) in university in the Bible belt with no transportation of her own :/

You might be surprised to find out how many covens are actually in the Bible Belt. Wiccan's aren't called the Hidden Children of the Goddess for nothing. wink

I'd like to discuss some of the other things you posted in your blog.

Note: I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just stating my own opinion.

Quote:

Let's start by saying that Christianity has its divisions. You have Catholic, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. They're all branches of Christianity right?

Good, and for the sake of this entry, let's take the stereotype of Catholics not recognizing any other form of Christianity and assume that it's true. Even though we all know that there are some who do not feel this way. But for now, we're looking at the majority that is like that.

With that said, let's move on.

Wicca has its own divisions. And let's equate Gardenerian and other Traditional paths to that of Catholics. Where the Traditional paths recognize only lineaged initiation into Traditional covens and don't recognize any type of eclecticism and solitary practice.

I disagree with this.

I understand the analogy, but I think there's a small mistake in it's representation.

BTW is a Neo-pagan faith. It acknowledges other neo-pagan faiths, just like Catholics acknowledge other forms of Christianity. But Catholics don't have to claim the Mormons as Catholics do they?

Quote:

Call me a Neo-Pagan if you so desire, I will still consider myself a Wiccan.

...

Sure, because those of us don't follow Traditional paths we're technically Neo-Pagan, but we're still Wiccan if we believe in some/a lot of the same concepts and what not.

May I ask why you consider yourself so?

What part of your faith is Wiccan?

Quote:

I'm not going to turn my life upside down to find a Traditional coven either. Why do I need to sacrafice things to travel and search for a coven that may or may not be the right coven for me?

This is something I've thought long and hard about as a seeker.
In the end, I decided anything that is even half as important to me as my spirituality is worth the time and effort. The things that brought me into seeking Wicca may be answered with Wicca or they might not and I might have to look elsewhere.

My coven is about a seven hour drive from where I live. I started with a coven that was just down the road- but it didn't fit. There are covens that are closer too- but the role of a coven is really a family. It's not that I'm going to these strangers asking them to make me a witch. It's that the HPS I am under is like a grandmother I care very deeply for. She's an amazing woman and my life would be poorer for not having her in it. When I am with them, I feel like I am home, around the fireplace on the holidays- laughing and joking.

Sure there are spiritual truths to be revealed and work to be done- but those can be found in other places too.

I'm not ending up with the first covens I found. It's a step on my journey. The more time I spend with the coven, the richer my life is- even if I'm not initiated by them.

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Traditional Wiccans who believe Gerald Gardner founded the Wiccan faith are too full of themselves in my opinion.

Some of them really are. Being Wiccan doesn't make a person a good person. I've met some Wiccans who, while they deserve the respect due for their sacrifice, I would never even consider them to train under. They mistreat people, are mean spirited and condescending. I've also met Eclectics like this too though. I figure I can't dismiss a whole group just because some of it's members are jerks.

Quote:

Although I do understand that is how this path works, I still think they can be a little more tolerant of non-Traditional pathways.

I think most of them are very tolerant of other faiths. Hell, most of the ones I know are either eclectic outside of Wicca or are multifaithed.

The problems pop up when people do stuff that calls them by oath to defend the Craft. Some people do this well, some people are jerks and this comes across in their defense of Wicca.

Quote:

Because, Gerald Gardner had to have gotten a lot of his ideas that were published somewhere other than himself. I respect Gardner for bringing Wicca to the public eye and creating a foundation for it outside of coven circles, but I refuse to believe that he is the father of Wicca. Long before he published anything, he was part of a coven before starting his own - so I find it hard to believe that he's the founder. But what Gardner publicized, was Wica, not Wicca - the second "C" was added much later by another person.

Gardner was initiated by a coven who also was limited to initiation based Mysteries. He also added and changed a lot- so it makes sense to call him the Father of Wicca.

As for the C's, most of what was popping up was a mimicry of Gardner's religion- even in that article it talks about how people stole his Book, copied it, did things to catch his eye. If they are their own religion without needing him at all- why would they do that?

Quote:

So in my eyes, if those who follow Traditional paths are so touchy about the word "Wicca", they need to be Traditional and use the term "Wica" like Gerald Gardner.

When you look at the article you linked to, it also talks about the evolution of the word and how Wicca came from Wica. I'd agree that other groups can use the word- but I think it needs to be for the right reasons.

Like, if someone actually reconstructed the Wiccens based on Gardner's detractors, or something like that.

Why do you feel you should use the title? What about the title makes it a good fit for you?

(My HPS has mentioned that some texts also contain the double C spelling, if that is of any interest)

Quote:

Do the God and Goddess really care about the structure of how they are worshiped?

Even if you doubt it, there's plenty of lore to suggest they do.

I know it's unpopular, but a lot of religions had very strict practices that were expected of their followers. I was chatting in another thread about the Egyptians- they had strict rules about what fabric could be worn by their priests and priestesses, and what time of the month some people could make offerings and approach the gods.  

[Viz_22]

Yeah, I can see your point in a lot of things. I still have no transport though... I'm at a university that's an hour away from home, but if I want to go home I need to arrange something with my parents.... Having a coven that could work for me that's seven hours away just... quite impossible right now sweatdrop

I consider myself Wiccan (be it wrong in any one else's eye) because I follow the Rede as best I can (Hah...not a great point to make, right?) but I'm also working my way into having all the tools (money....bleh...). I'm trying to become more traditional (I guess that makes me a Seeker - HA but eh...) because I would like to be in a coven - as long as it works for me.

And yeah.... Maybe in some/most faiths/paths the deities do care about the structure that they are worshiped in, but what if someone created the lore to be that way to create structure to follow? Just a thought... and I feel that as long as the intention is there and that the deities receive attention, why should they care? Besides, shouldn't they know the position you're in if you're unable to follow the structure exactly?

So for now, I'll call myself Wiccan, though I'm probably Neo-Wiccan/Neo-Pagan or w.e.... If only because I'm working my way to that point.... If I offend anyone by calling myself Wiccan, I'll stop voicing it but I can't promise I still won't believe it :/  

[Esiris]

Viz_22

Yeah, I can see your point in a lot of things. I still have no transport though... I'm at a university that's an hour away from home, but if I want to go home I need to arrange something with my parents.... Having a coven that could work for me that's seven hours away just... quite impossible right now sweatdrop

That's okay. wink

Quote:

I consider myself Wiccan (be it wrong in any one else's eye) because I follow the Rede as best I can (Hah...not a great point to make, right?)

Funny thing is the Rede isn't a foundation of Wicca. Most Wiccans I know talk about it philosophically, but it isn't part of Wicca itself.

Quote:

but I'm also working my way into having all the tools (money....bleh...).

Do you know how to consecrate them to make them Wiccan tools as opposed to another religions tool?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but even as a Seeker, I'm not seeing anything you mentioned that is Wiccan specific.

Quote:

I'm trying to become more traditional (I guess that makes me a Seeker - HA but eh...) because I would like to be in a coven - as long as it works for me.

Seeking can be an amazing experience, even if Wicca isn't where we end up.

Quote:

And yeah.... Maybe in some/most faiths/paths the deities do care about the structure that they are worshiped in, but what if someone created the lore to be that way to create structure to follow?

In that case, it would become obvious very quickly that the structure wasn't divine edict.

The quick way to test this would be to check the revelations of the peeps who aren't initiated against the ones who are.

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I feel that as long as the intention is there and that the deities receive attention, why should they care?

I figure it's got to do with the feeling that Wicca isn't about just any attention. Someone yelling at you is giving you attention- that doesn't mean it's welcomed attention.

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Besides, shouldn't they know the position you're in if you're unable to follow the structure exactly?

Yep, they know. Part of being a Seeker though is waiting and working towards the goal, even if you aren't where you want to be at that moment.

Quote:

So for now, I'll call myself Wiccan, though I'm probably Neo-Wiccan/Neo-Pagan or w.e.... If only because I'm working my way to that point.... If I offend anyone by calling myself Wiccan, I'll stop voicing it but I can't promise I still won't believe it :/

I know that it upsets some people on Gaia, and out of respect I tend not to do it myself.

I mean, there are lots of things Seekers can do that can piss off Wiccans- most of it has to do with feeling like we deserve to have them just give us whatever we want because we're asking.

Wiccans are Neo-pagans, and witches but they're something else too- not even something more, but something else. I don't think you should just have to take my word for it that you shouldn't call yourself Wiccan. But if you're willing to share more of what you believe and how you feel it makes you Wiccan, maybe you can understand where I'm coming from better. Is that okay?  

[Anannsul]

Esiris

That's eclectic. Now the challenge is to be ethical while being eclectic. For example, "Drawing down the Moon" started as a practice in ancient Greece- is part of Wicca and thus became part of modern Paganism.

When you draw down the Moon, what are you doing exactly?

The use of sage to smudge is largely a Southwest Native American practice.

I'm not as familiar with Rosemary. Where did you come by that?

Depending on the numerical values, the Numerology could be any number of systems. I've mostly seen Abrahamic and Italian systems.

Back research and find where the sources for the spells from the internet came from.

I don't know what to tell you about Ravenwolf. She makes me uncomfortable when it comes to magic.

Dragon runes?

Actually, I just realized.. I don't draw down the moon as a ritual in it's self. I only partially do it when making moon water. So i guess technically I'm not drawing down the moon into myself.. but drawing down the moon and asking it to bless the water I suppose. =/ (But i love making moon water it's so fun and so shiney when it's done. *_*)

Using rosemary came from my family on my mother's side. They are catholic. Rosemary can be planted outside a door to ward bad spirits away.. and can be burned and used to cleanse a house of bad spirits. smile

Most of the spells just came from ehow. (lol) I look them over and sometime change them a tad so that I am most comfortable doing them.

Yes dragon runes. I shall link you. ^_^
Dragon-runes.com

I had a calling to runes and at first I thought norse.. so I collected some Popsicle sticks (because I had read you can use them) and I wrote down all the norse runes... but I NEVER put them on the sticks. Why? Because I didn't feel connected to the norse runes... so I just had a bag full of sticks with nothing on them. While searching for different types of Runes I saw dragons and immediately knew those were the ones. So these are my runes. ^_^ I used them quite often until I found my dragon tarot deck. (Which also took me a while to find.)

I've been thinking about getting a crystal ball.. but everytime I pick up the one's at borders they tend to get dark inside and make me feel iffy on buying it.. so I still haven't aquired one of those either. =/  

[Esiris]

Anannsul

Actually, I just realized.. I don't draw down the moon as a ritual in it's self. I only partially do it when making moon water. So i guess technically I'm not drawing down the moon into myself.. but drawing down the moon and asking it to bless the water I suppose. =/ (But i love making moon water it's so fun and so shiney when it's done. *_*)

Using rosemary came from my family on my mother's side. They are catholic. Rosemary can be planted outside a door to ward bad spirits away.. and can be burned and used to cleanse a house of bad spirits. smile

Most of the spells just came from ehow. (lol) I look them over and sometime change them a tad so that I am most comfortable doing them.

Yes dragon runes. I shall link you. ^_^
Dragon-runes.com

I had a calling to runes and at first I thought norse.. so I collected some Popsicle sticks (because I had read you can use them) and I wrote down all the norse runes... but I NEVER put them on the sticks. Why? Because I didn't feel connected to the norse runes... so I just had a bag full of sticks with nothing on them. While searching for different types of Runes I saw dragons and immediately knew those were the ones. So these are my runes. ^_^ I used them quite often until I found my dragon tarot deck. (Which also took me a while to find.)

I've been thinking about getting a crystal ball.. but everytime I pick up the one's at borders they tend to get dark inside and make me feel iffy on buying it.. so I still haven't aquired one of those either. =/

The Dragon runes are interesting.
Looks like they were based on the way Elder Futhark is used by a lot of Eclectics.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I wouldn't consider them runes myself. Runes aren't symbols... They're mysteries. Separate energies. The way many people misuse Futhark doesn't have anything to do with that, and the same applies here.

One of the reasons I dislike Ravenwolf is her version of drawing down the moon. The Wiccan ritual by that names involves the HP actually invoking the person of the Lady into the body of the HPS. Given that she claims toteach Wicca....