A religious debate thread?!

[DarkWolfLove]

I, for one, have never read the bible, but any book from that long ago is historical, even if it doesn't have facts in it.
s**t, a fairy tale from thousands of years ago can be historical.

Know why?
It gives us an insight into that time period.
It's cultural.
Rap songs today aren't factual, but they will be historical in the distant future.
CULTURE is HISTORICAL.
Historical just means it gives us information about history.
I agree, the bible should not be quoted as fact in this day and age because it is outdated, but it is a factual book in that it shows us how people lived way back when.

 

[DarkWolfLove]

666 Demonic Lover 666

Religion isn't deadly, the bible is.

Also

Their are MANY other ways we can learn of our history, and the BIBLE is not one of them.

The only effect tossing it aside and or burning it would do is cause an uproar from the Xian churches, claiming us as the "Devil" and that we must be killed and tortured to save the world.

It would not ******** up any history at all.

Also to any laveyan satanists out there your a complete retard as well, the Satanic bible and the words within' it that are of (Un-translated.) Enochian, (Original Language of the Gods.) for example 90% of the names are speaking of the so called Xian god, in fact, they are almost always Translating to, "Praise God Almighty." though not quiet in exactly those words, if you understand the names are an Alias of the Xian god then you can simply Translate it to, "God"
(Removed because it was apparently possibly in english within the book though the fact it praises Xian god still stands.)

And also " Page 204, the Eighth Key is very blasphemous:
"the dragon doth sink" The Dragon is a sacred symbol of Satan and symbolizes the spiritual power (kundalini) within us all. "

The dragon doth sink, is a change of words on the fall of Lucifer and the other angels in the bible.

Of course still noting that it is a blasphemy of Satan and not actual history.

If your actually interested in learning of the Enochian here is the link,

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Explanation.html

I sorely apologize if I came off as Ranting, but please bear in mind I just woke up and it's like 2:54am, so anything that normally annoys me tends to piss me off. sweatdrop especially when Father satan' is being Blasphemed.

And on another note I normally ignore or block people who bring up the bible as an argument of it being fact. sweatdrop

All religion can be deadly, not just Christianity.

 

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

DarkWolfLove

I, for one, have never read the bible, but any book from that long ago is historical, even if it doesn't have facts in it.
s**t, a fairy tale from thousands of years ago can be historical.

Know why?
It gives us an insight into that time period.
It's cultural.
Rap songs today aren't factual, but they will be historical in the distant future.
CULTURE is HISTORICAL.
Historical just means it gives us information about history.
I agree, the bible should not be quoted as fact in this day and age because it is outdated, but it is a factual book in that it shows us how people lived way back when.

Yes, however it is only true if the book "Truly" existed that long ago, since the bible didn't it is not one of these books.

You could say it is basically the Churches version of Hitlers brainwashing, by making them believe it is true before the end of the middle ages, and before the beginning of the "Modern" age.

Just like Hitler making children think Jews are evil and writing a false history "book" on all the so called things they had done, only using it's effect in the millions.  

[DarkWolfLove]

666 Demonic Lover 666

DarkWolfLove

I, for one, have never read the bible, but any book from that long ago is historical, even if it doesn't have facts in it.
s**t, a fairy tale from thousands of years ago can be historical.

Know why?
It gives us an insight into that time period.
It's cultural.
Rap songs today aren't factual, but they will be historical in the distant future.
CULTURE is HISTORICAL.
Historical just means it gives us information about history.
I agree, the bible should not be quoted as fact in this day and age because it is outdated, but it is a factual book in that it shows us how people lived way back when.

Yes, however it is only true if the book "Truly" existed that long ago, since the bible didn't it is not one of these books.

You could say it is basically the Churches version of Hitlers brainwashing, by making them believe it is true before the end of the middle ages, and before the beginning of the "Modern" age.

Just like Hitler making children think Jews are evil and writing a false history "book" on all the so called things they had done, only using it's effect in the millions.

You might be right, but that is not the majority's thinking.
I don't want to say that science itself has claimed the bible to be thousands of years old, but that is my knowledge, so I will have to disagree with you.

Give me proof, reputable proof, and I will concede.
But for now, in my mind, you are wrong.

 

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

There is slight truth to that, however it all depends.

For example I argue the point with people more often then not myself.

However in doing so in a way I am sinning as one of the "Rules" is to not push your belief on to anyone, just as satan would never push himself onto anyone.

It is dangerous however in the biblical matter when it is used to make a group of people even if they do not believe in the religion followers.  

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

DarkWolfLove

666 Demonic Lover 666

DarkWolfLove

I, for one, have never read the bible, but any book from that long ago is historical, even if it doesn't have facts in it.
s**t, a fairy tale from thousands of years ago can be historical.

Know why?
It gives us an insight into that time period.
It's cultural.
Rap songs today aren't factual, but they will be historical in the distant future.
CULTURE is HISTORICAL.
Historical just means it gives us information about history.
I agree, the bible should not be quoted as fact in this day and age because it is outdated, but it is a factual book in that it shows us how people lived way back when.

Yes, however it is only true if the book "Truly" existed that long ago, since the bible didn't it is not one of these books.

You could say it is basically the Churches version of Hitlers brainwashing, by making them believe it is true before the end of the middle ages, and before the beginning of the "Modern" age.

Just like Hitler making children think Jews are evil and writing a false history "book" on all the so called things they had done, only using it's effect in the millions.

You might be right, but that is not the majority's thinking.
I don't want to say that science itself has claimed the bible to be thousands of years old, but that is my knowledge, so I will have to disagree with you.

Give me proof, reputable proof, and I will concede.
But for now, in my mind, you are wrong.

The only thing I can leave you with is this,

" http://www.exposingchristianity.com/ "

As due to the churches influence the only way to combat your argument would be to somehow "Magically" go back in time to the middle ages when it began, however even if I could for my own safety and that of others I would much rather tear off my own arms, as the immediate action of the church would be to have me captured on the spot of course which I would then be tortured to death for blasphemy.  

[Garek Maxwell]

666 Demonic Lover 666

your completely ******** retarded.

Oh civility, where art thou?

666 Demonic Lover 666

Xians created such so called "Findings" to create and make it look like they had been around for so called "Thousands of years." to allow themselves to claim they were around for said "Thousands of years." thus making fools like yourself fall for their word.

The Old Testament is Jewish, meaning that this portion of the scriptures is older than Christianity. While Christians haven't been around forever, a good chunk of the Bible has in some form or another. Often in oral tradition but also written form as well.

Also,
Thousand = 1,000
Thousands = 1,000 + X,000
2000 years = Thousands
So yes, while Christians haven't been around since "the beginning", Jews were around a while before Christians. Which makes sense, because Jesus was a Jew according to scripture and all that. It would be rather paradoxical for him to be a Christian, along with most other people before him.

666 Demonic Lover 666

also your claims of the first part of your quote are ridiculously off topic for what I was speaking of, Jesus Christ never existed, God didn't create man kind, Lucifer isn't an angel that rebelled from a so called god, in fact it was quiet the opposite, other God's rebelled and attacked him, which brings us to a different story that reveals even more so the fact that it is not a history book, if anything you can call it a mind control device and a blasphemy device.

I direct you to DarkWolfLove's lovely post.

666 Demonic Lover 666

If you don't get it, don't reply, I don't really care to waste my energy speaking to children like you who know completely nothing.

Dearest civility,
May thine grace touch upon this thread once more.

666 Demonic Lover 666

Also before the bible you know who people worshiped? The GODS

Quite a few gods in fact! Many of which were different between cultures. That's why there's so many wonderful variations across Europe and the world as a whole. Everything from Roman/Greek gods and goddesses, to the tribes of the north, to the diverse people of Africa, to shining seas of the Americas, all the way back to the unique world views of Asia. Incredible diversity, nearly each culture having its own take on their own religion just about.

666 Demonic Lover 666

in fact they were more then happy and actually WELCOME to speak to people in person, now things have changed

Actually, there were religions where in which the gods/goddesses didn't speak to them directly. In some cases, it's just spirits and there are no gods and goddesses. Does this mean they're wrong for having ways older than yours?

666 Demonic Lover 666

and they are constantly bombarded with the bible and it's blasphemy of them

Don't forget Buddhism! They don't even have gods! surprised
Well, certain variations don't anyway.

666 Demonic Lover 666

on a side note if it weren't for Lucifer and the rest of the Gods we'd be far from where we are now in terms of mentality, among other things.

If it weren't for certain common myths around at the time, it's quite possible Christianity (and thus the idea of Lucifer) never would have formulated. Heck, had the Romans treated Christianity differently, it might have died out long ago.

666 Demonic Lover 666

In fact if you see the bible as history then forget science existing as well.

Whaaa? I was giving explicit examples of why the Bible is relevant to historical study explicitly not for it's religious message. I don't think I can make it any more clearer. It's useful for gaining insight into a people long dead, not for "OMG JEBUS IS REAL" rhetoric.

But once again, if we're going to just throw away historical works because their religious message or followers aren't agreeable, then we've pretty much lost all of our ancient history. Most of the evidence from ancient cultures is religious in nature, and the vast majority will conflict with your religious beliefs in some way or another. By this logic, you'd want to throw away the history of all sorts of religions from ancient Egyptian to Viking Norse. Sounds pretty anti-science and anti-history to me. neutral  

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

Sorry but one more post by you sir and I am putting you on my ignore list.

Lucifer did not come from the bible itself he existed before it's wording of him came to be.

Thus the so called "idea of lucifer." being from the bible is false.

He created the human race, the Angels rebelled won the fight, created the bible, and that is why there are so many biblical believers.

Hell thanks to the bibles mere existence I have to hide my own views and beliefs, "Or" lose the internet, no longer play video games, watch T.V. or movies, and be FORCED to believe in the bible.

Also there are millions of ways to learn of history without the Damned bible which is of course not of history.

as for civility screw it up the a** with a fork, I much prefer to be "Blunt".

As your civility would require me to basically bend over and say that your totally right and I am completely wrong.
Which in turn due to the Views of law enforcement being biblical mean's the police would not help me after knowing my beliefs, even if I was being beaten over it.  

[DarkWolfLove]

666 Demonic Lover 666

DarkWolfLove

666 Demonic Lover 666

DarkWolfLove

I, for one, have never read the bible, but any book from that long ago is historical, even if it doesn't have facts in it.
s**t, a fairy tale from thousands of years ago can be historical.

Know why?
It gives us an insight into that time period.
It's cultural.
Rap songs today aren't factual, but they will be historical in the distant future.
CULTURE is HISTORICAL.
Historical just means it gives us information about history.
I agree, the bible should not be quoted as fact in this day and age because it is outdated, but it is a factual book in that it shows us how people lived way back when.

Yes, however it is only true if the book "Truly" existed that long ago, since the bible didn't it is not one of these books.

You could say it is basically the Churches version of Hitlers brainwashing, by making them believe it is true before the end of the middle ages, and before the beginning of the "Modern" age.

Just like Hitler making children think Jews are evil and writing a false history "book" on all the so called things they had done, only using it's effect in the millions.

You might be right, but that is not the majority's thinking.
I don't want to say that science itself has claimed the bible to be thousands of years old, but that is my knowledge, so I will have to disagree with you.

Give me proof, reputable proof, and I will concede.
But for now, in my mind, you are wrong.

The only thing I can leave you with is this,

" http://www.exposingchristianity.com/ "

As due to the churches influence the only way to combat your argument would be to somehow "Magically" go back in time to the middle ages when it began, however even if I could for my own safety and that of others I would much rather tear off my own arms, as the immediate action of the church would be to have me captured on the spot of course which I would then be tortured to death for blasphemy.

Though that link seems to be a wellspring of information, I cannot accept that as reputable.
There are no outside sources, no quotes from superiors.

And even if you managed to "magically go back in time" as you say, your findings would still need to be recorded appropriately.
It can't just be "so, I saw this one dude... And he did this.... And all that ain't true 'cause I saw it with my own two eyes, so I'm right above you all."
If that were the case, I'd point you in the direction of people who have experienced "miracles" in which their god, or any higher power, spoke to them and "showed them the way".
But you would call that false or "******** retarded" because of what they believe is different than your own.

I cannot continue this any longer for a few reasons, but mostly because I should have been asleep in bed with my Mate hours ago and because you are too biased to see it from a different perspective.

Good night all~

 

[Garek Maxwell]

666 Demonic Lover 666

Yes, however it is only true if the book "Truly" existed that long ago, since the bible didn't it is not one of these books.

Once again, even if it were to have been invented long afterward, it would contain knowledge of the time period it was formulated in. This would be especially apparent in how people lived, since technology did advance and clothing styles did change somewhat between the Middle Ages Europe and Biblical Mediterranean. To make it clearer, Europe didn't even have tents, very little silk if they even knew of it, and many spices and the knowledge there of didn't exist before the Crusades. There would be inaccuracies. Just as when Jesus is depicted as a clean shaven Roman under a Christian Roman citizens view. (I don't recall if it was Byzantine or not, but that's beside the point.)  

[Garek Maxwell]

666 Demonic Lover 666

Sorry but one more post by you sir and I am putting you on my ignore list.

Why would one post do it without having read a single word from it?

666 Demonic Lover 666

Lucifer did not come from the bible itself he existed before it's wording of him came to be.

Thus the so called "idea of lucifer." being from the bible is false.

Then I admit fault there. My main point about certain myths and things still stands though. Had certain ideas never existed, then the term never would have came to be, just as with the entire Christian religion.

666 Demonic Lover 666

He created the human race, the Angels rebelled won the fight, created the bible, and that is why there are so many biblical believers.

Your personal religious belief contradicts probably 99% of this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions
Just as mine do.

666 Demonic Lover 666

Hell thanks to the bibles mere existence I have to hide my own views and beliefs, "Or" lose the internet, no longer play video games, watch T.V. or movies, and be FORCED to believe in the bible.

You shouldn't have to hide your beliefs at all, and those that create such a situation are reprehensible.

I should mention though that it was Christians who created most, if not all, of those things.

666 Demonic Lover 666

Also there are millions of ways to learn of history without the Damned bible which is of course not of history.

Yes, there are. I never said the bible was the only source. I only keep saying that if we throw away information in contradiction to one's personal beliefs or because a lot of the followers are dicks, then we'd not have a lot the history we have today. It's foolish to throw away a puzzle piece because we don't find it agreeable.

Once again, could we know much about Ancient Egyptian society without anything religious to work from?

666 Demonic Lover 666

as for civility screw it up the a** with a fork, I much prefer to be "Blunt".

Blunt isn't insulting, it's to the point. < Example being.

666 Demonic Lover 666

As your civility would require me to basically bend over and say that your totally right and I am completely wrong.

Nonsense, civility is being respectable of the other person and not throwing out personal insults. You can criticize my opinions, I don't care. Criticizing the science and research of history is another matter, one which requires evidence.

666 Demonic Lover 666

Which in turn due to the Views of law enforcement being biblical mean's the police would not help me after knowing my beliefs, even if I was being beaten over it.

Actually, the laws are on your side since the assailants can be charged for hate crimes. However, if the police were to do such a thing then they should loose their badge, be barred from being police again, and arrested as accomplices since their job is to put a stop to that and defend people against such atrocities.

Let me be clear, I don't defend all Christians or everything Christians do. I do defend against the idea that 100% of all Christians being nothing but evil scum. People are people and you'll find reprehensible people in all religions, even yours. That doesn't make it okay to demonize an entire group.  

[Psycho Lee]

Garek Maxwell

Oh civility, where art thou?

I think I found it in the bottom of an outhouse in the canadian wilderness, one day. :/  

[Psycho Lee]

audio_defect

Psycho Lee,

I'm a Christian and I understand where you're coming from. The bible does have a dark side to it, but the religion that I know and love incorporates the teachings of both the old (Genesis, Joshua, Kings etc.) and the new. What you might have to consider is when Jesus died, the old law died with them, therefore making things like sacrifices, purging of nations etc. obsolete. People who follow those type of rules aren't following under what the new law (the new testament) has put into place.

I hope that makes sense. I tend to ramble and lose track of...everything. sweatdrop whee

Well, the problem I see is those who see the Bible as the literal word of God. They tend to take a single verse out of both the New and Old Testaments and use it to prove their own point. "It says here in the Bible it must be so!" And my point is "well it also says this in the Old Testament, and this is a very bad thing." The problem is people don't look at the entire bible in context. Like remembering that Jesus died and took the old law with him, as it's written in the gospels. Or that most scholars agree the Bible was written by many men, for instance the New Testament is mostly written letters by John and Paul to followers. Or that the OT is mostly a written history of the Jews, also written by men. One may take a single passage from Psalms and say "This is what God believes" and forget that Psalms were songs of worship written by men (mostly David) to praise God, not the word of God. They just use single bible quotes, especially from the OT, to further their own hateful agenda.  

[Psycho Lee]

A little off topic, but dammit DarkWolf, there are days you make me wish you were single. :/

666 Demonic Lover 666

The only thing I can leave you with is this,

" http://www.exposingchristianity.com/ "

I notice you continuously link to that site and ONLY that site. I hate to think of it as fact mostly because of the atrocious website design, but that might be more because of my own classes in web design than anything else. In any case, it's folly to believe everything online as anyone can lie.

666 Demonic Lover 666

As your civility would require me to basically bend over and say that your totally right and I am completely wrong.

No. We're not expecting anyone to be completely right or wrong. Only someone with a closed and black and white viewpoint would believe that one has to be complete right or wrong.

The sad thing is, as much as you hate Christian fundies, you're sounding like a pagan version of a Fundie yourself. "My views are right and everyone else is wrong/stupid." You're becoming exactly the thing you hate, just on the opposite side of the fence.

A thing to note about Ren is that she is being raised in a Fundie family herself, which explains her deep hatred of christianity. Her family seems to be extremely hateful of her transgendered and bisexual self, as well as her beliefs and atheist brother. She also seems to live in a small right-wing town, and her dislike of the cops either stems from them being the "small town" type of cops, or that they won't acknowledge her claims of abuse because her family has only verbally abused her, with threats and hatred, and may have not physically abused her.

And while I understand her situation, sympathize with her pain, and understand her hate of chrstianity, not all Christians are bad and the religion can't just be dismissed as an evil dictatorship bent on world domination.

While the protestant bible itself can be traced back to the middle ages or so, whenever King James decided to discard the extra books of the catholic bible, parts of the bible can be traced back at least 2.5 or 3 thousand years, before Christianity existed. Yes, parts of it were borrowed from other religions. Yes, whether the entire thing is fact is dependant on personal belief. But that doesn't mean some of it is historically accurate in some shape or form.

Look at the story of the Trojan War. It was in one of Homer's poems. Something known as fiction. However, even fiction can be partially based on fact, and many historians believe that Troy existed and there was a battle where the city burned. Just because one part of the bible said that God parted the red sea for Moses doesn't mean the part that describes what king ruled over Isreal at a certain time is false as well, it could be fact. Some of the bible may be fact, others may be exaggerations, others may be based entirely on belief and may be false, although if you're Jewish/Christian you may believe those parts as well.  

[Memorex_TDK]

Psycho Lee

Well, the problem I see is those who see the Bible as the literal word of God. They tend to take a single verse out of both the New and Old Testaments and use it to prove their own point. "It says here in the Bible it must be so!" And my point is "well it also says this in the Old Testament, and this is a very bad thing." The problem is people don't look at the entire bible in context. Like remembering that Jesus died and took the old law with him, as it's written in the gospels. Or that most scholars agree the Bible was written by many men, for instance the New Testament is mostly written letters by John and Paul to followers. Or that the OT is mostly a written history of the Jews, also written by men. One may take a single passage from Psalms and say "This is what God believes" and forget that Psalms were songs of worship written by men (mostly David) to praise God, not the word of God. They just use single bible quotes, especially from the OT, to further their own hateful agenda.

I see what you're saying and I can agree that some people do use it to prove their own agenda without doing the proper investigation. It's the same as people believing that Jesus was white or that he was handsome man. I mean, Jesus wasn't even Christian, he was Jewish and he died Jewish. But... on the other hand, Paul, John, the others who wrote those scriptures, even though they were different men, it's said that they were "inspired" by the words of Jesus in order to write those scriptures. I'm not sure I understand your statement about the "hateful agenda". Could you give an example?