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 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:41 am
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Fresnel Recon_Ninja_985   we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... I've been saying this for MONTHS. Although we really need to re-work the action to make it not ricochet off itself for proper ejection. Maybe use the action of the Para Tactical Target Rifle? Also, the whole AR/AK thing was done years ago. It was the AR-18, and it was a commercial failure. Its big brother, the .308 AR-16, was Stoner's attempt at making an AR easier to manufacture in simple machine shops. In fact, most of the small parts were generic, and could be replaced with screws, bolts, washers, pins, etc. from any small hardware store. The AR-18 was the -16 downsized to 5.56 by another engineer at Armalite after Stoner's "******** you guys I'm out" routine. It was a great idea, and one I still like to this day, but nobody bought them. Armalite just stopped selling the AR-180B in this past decade.
I dont know about you but when I trained / practice room clearing or shooting anything close up in general, somewhere along the line I developed the tendency to cant my rifle to the left to get the sights out of my view. i'm talking about man sized targets at maybe 30 meters or so and in.
with a conventional bullpup I would be eating brass.
but yes, the para rifle would be an awesome action to duplicate in the morita repro if we wanted to simplify things. but it would be right hand users only and that might cut down a level of interest in the market due to exclusive one side usage. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:13 am
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:53 pm
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Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... That magazine just looks like a standard AR mag with some strange adapter housing it to make it fit into the rifle.  Speaking of Eugene Stoner... I on the other hand am a fan of Eugene Stoner's original AR-10 design that had a versatile role as both a battle rifle and general purpose machine gun just with a simple quick and easy feed adapter to make it take belted 7.62 ammo. Beats the s**t out of an M60 anyday especially since you've got a forward assist to deal with the rifle bolt not fully closing when it's pasted over with s**t. Not to mention it's lighter and more squad portable than an M60 or FN MAG and if a major jam were to occur during a combat situation you could pick it up and move to cover behind the foward position very quickly to fix it or remove the belt fed adapter and use it in someone else's rifle to quickly get back to laying a sustained fire down. Unfortunately the Sudanese and some other country were the only ones that tooks the man's design seriously and worked out the kinks.
and I disagree with a beltfed AR10 being better than an M60. the AR10 wasnt built to be a machinegun and lacks some important qualities so make it as successful as MG's like the M60 and FN MAG.
1. being that it probably still fires from a closed bolt, generating a lot of heat.
2. AR types in general have to be lubed extremely well or they will jam up, you cant run these weapons dry, especially if youre going to be shooting a lot, which is the purpose of a beltfed.
3. that damned gas tube is going to be cherry red and is going to break from all that abuse
4. the combination of .308, direct impingement, and lots of bullets means that thing is going to get filthy quick...very filthy.
regarding the forward assist....theyre both totally different weapons. an M60 is open bolt, why would you even want to manually push it forward? the trigger does that.
it's bolt only closes when it is in the middle of firing or is empty. and it SLAMS forward. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:49 am
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Recon_Ninja_985 Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... That magazine just looks like a standard AR mag with some strange adapter housing it to make it fit into the rifle. Speaking of Eugene Stoner... I on the other hand am a fan of Eugene Stoner's original AR-10 design that had a versatile role as both a battle rifle and general purpose machine gun just with a simple quick and easy feed adapter to make it take belted 7.62 ammo. Beats the s**t out of an M60 anyday especially since you've got a forward assist to deal with the rifle bolt not fully closing when it's pasted over with s**t. Not to mention it's lighter and more squad portable than an M60 or FN MAG and if a major jam were to occur during a combat situation you could pick it up and move to cover behind the foward position very quickly to fix it or remove the belt fed adapter and use it in someone else's rifle to quickly get back to laying a sustained fire down. Unfortunately the Sudanese and some other country were the only ones that tooks the man's design seriously and worked out the kinks. nah, the morita rifles in the SST movie utilized ruger mini14/ AC556 magazines because those were the rifles they used to build them. they just surrounded the rifles in a molded fiberglass futuristic looking furniture kit and did the same for the mags and I disagree with a beltfed AR10 being better than an M60. the AR10 wasnt built to be a machinegun and lacks some important qualities so make it as successful as MG's like the M60 and FN MAG. 1. being that it probably still fires from a closed bolt, generating a lot of heat. 2. AR types in general have to be lubed extremely well or they will jam up, you cant run these weapons dry, especially if youre going to be shooting a lot, which is the purpose of a beltfed. 3. that damned gas tube is going to be cherry red and is going to break from all that abuse 4. the combination of .308, direct impingement, and lots of bullets means that thing is going to get filthy quick...very filthy.
THAT'S RIGHT, SUCK ON IT, M60. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:45 am
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:14 pm
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:01 am
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Fresnel Lt Buckner Fresnel If you're really serious about this, I've got a great idea for a combat shotgun, but I've got no idea how it would actually FUNCTION, just what it should do and how it should be laid out. your halo shotgun? The idea has come a bit since then.
it would require a redically different design from the hugely popular 870 style action
hmm. another good idea would to have instantly detachable mag tubes that can be slid onto the weapon like changing a box magazine. these can be made of polymer to be cheaper and lighter.
oh, and different length mag tubes for different barrel lengths. say something like a 11-12 round tube mag for a long length shotgun (like hunting length long)
8 to 10 round tube mags for combat/ LE standard length
6 or 7 for compact tactical types
and anywhere above 4 for a super shorty
the reason for so many rounds is because with a different design with a tube on the top, you can move the feeding device further back to where the grip would be (or even behind it)
storing these tube mags could take up a bit of space but they shouldn't be longer than anyone's torso so mag sleeves can be made for a vest.
sights would have to be different. maybe a side mount that can sit an electronic sight right above one of these mags. or an elevated AR style front sight along with an AR rear sight |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:37 pm
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Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel Lt Buckner Fresnel If you're really serious about this, I've got a great idea for a combat shotgun, but I've got no idea how it would actually FUNCTION, just what it should do and how it should be laid out. your halo shotgun? The idea has come a bit since then. a halo shotgun isnt a bad idea. moving the tube to the top and changing where it feeds can get you at least 2 or more extra rounds in the shotgun. it would require a redically different design from the hugely popular 870 style action hmm. another good idea would to have instantly detachable mag tubes that can be slid onto the weapon like changing a box magazine. these can be made of polymer to be cheaper and lighter. oh, and different length mag tubes for different barrel lengths. say something like a 11-12 round tube mag for a long length shotgun (like hunting length long) 8 to 10 round tube mags for combat/ LE standard length 6 or 7 for compact tactical types and anywhere above 4 for a super shorty the reason for so many rounds is because with a different design with a tube on the top, you can move the feeding device further back to where the grip would be (or even behind it) storing these tube mags could take up a bit of space but they shouldn't be longer than anyone's torso so mag sleeves can be made for a vest. sights would have to be different. maybe a side mount that can sit an electronic sight right above one of these mags. or an elevated AR style front sight along with an AR rear sight
I was actually thinking putting the barrel under the magazine, moving the mag feed to the left side top, and bottom ejecting. That way you can toss a round in the chamber just like you'd load an M203, and load it with your right hand. No action even involves that derpy underhand toss that modern right-handed shotguns require to make a chamber reload. Include a Benelli-style magazine disconnect, extend the mag tube one shell beyond the muzzle and serrate it, like a Vang Standoff, put ghost rings on top (with the front sight now beyond the actual muzzle crown, increasing accuracy), and all-in-all I think it's a damn good idea. Hell, build the ******** to take 870 stocks and you've just doubled your civilian market share, too. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:31 pm
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Fresnel Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel Lt Buckner Fresnel If you're really serious about this, I've got a great idea for a combat shotgun, but I've got no idea how it would actually FUNCTION, just what it should do and how it should be laid out. your halo shotgun? The idea has come a bit since then. a halo shotgun isnt a bad idea. moving the tube to the top and changing where it feeds can get you at least 2 or more extra rounds in the shotgun. it would require a redically different design from the hugely popular 870 style action hmm. another good idea would to have instantly detachable mag tubes that can be slid onto the weapon like changing a box magazine. these can be made of polymer to be cheaper and lighter. oh, and different length mag tubes for different barrel lengths. say something like a 11-12 round tube mag for a long length shotgun (like hunting length long) 8 to 10 round tube mags for combat/ LE standard length 6 or 7 for compact tactical types and anywhere above 4 for a super shorty the reason for so many rounds is because with a different design with a tube on the top, you can move the feeding device further back to where the grip would be (or even behind it) storing these tube mags could take up a bit of space but they shouldn't be longer than anyone's torso so mag sleeves can be made for a vest. sights would have to be different. maybe a side mount that can sit an electronic sight right above one of these mags. or an elevated AR style front sight along with an AR rear sight P90-style mag tubes? Wow, not a bad idea at all. Only problem is sights, but then again, it's a ******** shotgun. xd I was actually thinking putting the barrel under the magazine, moving the mag feed to the left side top, and bottom ejecting. That way you can toss a round in the chamber just like you'd load an M203, and load it with your right hand. No action even involves that derpy underhand toss that modern right-handed shotguns require to make a chamber reload. Include a Benelli-style magazine disconnect, extend the mag tube one shell beyond the muzzle and serrate it, like a Vang Standoff, put ghost rings on top (with the front sight now beyond the actual muzzle crown, increasing accuracy), and all-in-all I think it's a damn good idea. Hell, build the ******** to take 870 stocks and you've just doubled your civilian market share, too. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:42 pm
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Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel Lt Buckner Fresnel If you're really serious about this, I've got a great idea for a combat shotgun, but I've got no idea how it would actually FUNCTION, just what it should do and how it should be laid out. your halo shotgun? The idea has come a bit since then. a halo shotgun isnt a bad idea. moving the tube to the top and changing where it feeds can get you at least 2 or more extra rounds in the shotgun. it would require a redically different design from the hugely popular 870 style action hmm. another good idea would to have instantly detachable mag tubes that can be slid onto the weapon like changing a box magazine. these can be made of polymer to be cheaper and lighter. oh, and different length mag tubes for different barrel lengths. say something like a 11-12 round tube mag for a long length shotgun (like hunting length long) 8 to 10 round tube mags for combat/ LE standard length 6 or 7 for compact tactical types and anywhere above 4 for a super shorty the reason for so many rounds is because with a different design with a tube on the top, you can move the feeding device further back to where the grip would be (or even behind it) storing these tube mags could take up a bit of space but they shouldn't be longer than anyone's torso so mag sleeves can be made for a vest. sights would have to be different. maybe a side mount that can sit an electronic sight right above one of these mags. or an elevated AR style front sight along with an AR rear sight P90-style mag tubes? Wow, not a bad idea at all. Only problem is sights, but then again, it's a ******** shotgun. xd I was actually thinking putting the barrel under the magazine, moving the mag feed to the left side top, and bottom ejecting. That way you can toss a round in the chamber just like you'd load an M203, and load it with your right hand. No action even involves that derpy underhand toss that modern right-handed shotguns require to make a chamber reload. Include a Benelli-style magazine disconnect, extend the mag tube one shell beyond the muzzle and serrate it, like a Vang Standoff, put ghost rings on top (with the front sight now beyond the actual muzzle crown, increasing accuracy), and all-in-all I think it's a damn good idea. Hell, build the ******** to take 870 stocks and you've just doubled your civilian market share, too. hell yes. either that or make 870 conversions that take S12 mags or do both. i'm sure there would be a chunk of interest in the market for these, as well as .mil, LE, and even 3 gunners and other such competitions |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:13 pm
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Fresnel Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel Recon_Ninja_985 Fresnel The idea has come a bit since then. a halo shotgun isnt a bad idea. moving the tube to the top and changing where it feeds can get you at least 2 or more extra rounds in the shotgun. it would require a redically different design from the hugely popular 870 style action hmm. another good idea would to have instantly detachable mag tubes that can be slid onto the weapon like changing a box magazine. these can be made of polymer to be cheaper and lighter. oh, and different length mag tubes for different barrel lengths. say something like a 11-12 round tube mag for a long length shotgun (like hunting length long) 8 to 10 round tube mags for combat/ LE standard length 6 or 7 for compact tactical types and anywhere above 4 for a super shorty the reason for so many rounds is because with a different design with a tube on the top, you can move the feeding device further back to where the grip would be (or even behind it) storing these tube mags could take up a bit of space but they shouldn't be longer than anyone's torso so mag sleeves can be made for a vest. sights would have to be different. maybe a side mount that can sit an electronic sight right above one of these mags. or an elevated AR style front sight along with an AR rear sight P90-style mag tubes? Wow, not a bad idea at all. Only problem is sights, but then again, it's a ******** shotgun. xd I was actually thinking putting the barrel under the magazine, moving the mag feed to the left side top, and bottom ejecting. That way you can toss a round in the chamber just like you'd load an M203, and load it with your right hand. No action even involves that derpy underhand toss that modern right-handed shotguns require to make a chamber reload. Include a Benelli-style magazine disconnect, extend the mag tube one shell beyond the muzzle and serrate it, like a Vang Standoff, put ghost rings on top (with the front sight now beyond the actual muzzle crown, increasing accuracy), and all-in-all I think it's a damn good idea. Hell, build the ******** to take 870 stocks and you've just doubled your civilian market share, too. hell yes. either that or make 870 conversions that take S12 mags or do both. i'm sure there would be a chunk of interest in the market for these, as well as .mil, LE, and even 3 gunners and other such competitions Knoxx tried do do the detachable mag mod for Mossbergs, considered doing Remington, and then dropped the whole product line, labeling it a failure before being bought out by Blackhawk. Maybe it'd work better with Saiga mags (though the curve seems like it'd be a serious obstacle for the pump hand), but their system was a commercial flop.
by utilizing a trusted and proven magazine, not to mention common and affordable. it could really catch on. although I would do it through remington on the 870 line for maximum success. as it's more popular and trusted and is pretty much better quality and the original producer of the design.
companies like mossberg and everyone else just seems to make copies of the same thing. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:31 pm
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Recon_Ninja_985 Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... That magazine just looks like a standard AR mag with some strange adapter housing it to make it fit into the rifle. Speaking of Eugene Stoner... I on the other hand am a fan of Eugene Stoner's original AR-10 design that had a versatile role as both a battle rifle and general purpose machine gun just with a simple quick and easy feed adapter to make it take belted 7.62 ammo. Beats the s**t out of an M60 anyday especially since you've got a forward assist to deal with the rifle bolt not fully closing when it's pasted over with s**t. Not to mention it's lighter and more squad portable than an M60 or FN MAG and if a major jam were to occur during a combat situation you could pick it up and move to cover behind the foward position very quickly to fix it or remove the belt fed adapter and use it in someone else's rifle to quickly get back to laying a sustained fire down. Unfortunately the Sudanese and some other country were the only ones that tooks the man's design seriously and worked out the kinks. nah, the morita rifles in the SST movie utilized ruger mini14/ AC556 magazines because those were the rifles they used to build them. they just surrounded the rifles in a molded fiberglass futuristic looking furniture kit and did the same for the mags and I disagree with a beltfed AR10 being better than an M60. the AR10 wasnt built to be a machinegun and lacks some important qualities so make it as successful as MG's like the M60 and FN MAG. 1. being that it probably still fires from a closed bolt, generating a lot of heat. 2. AR types in general have to be lubed extremely well or they will jam up, you cant run these weapons dry, especially if youre going to be shooting a lot, which is the purpose of a beltfed. 3. that damned gas tube is going to be cherry red and is going to break from all that abuse 4. the combination of .308, direct impingement, and lots of bullets means that thing is going to get filthy quick...very filthy. regarding the forward assist....theyre both totally different weapons. an M60 is open bolt, why would you even want to manually push it forward? the trigger does that. it's bolt only closes when it is in the middle of firing or is empty. and it SLAMS forward.
The M60 was possibly a gunners worst enemy it jammed at the worst of times when it was needed which is why the US military after so many years of putting up with it's s**t is phasing it out and going to the even older and more reliable FN MAG which I hardly see why since FN Herstal makes a Minimi in 7.62mm which is lighter than the older MAG.
On the design of the AR-10 closed bolt, jamming and heat issues...
Oddly enough a lot of civilian AR manufacturers put their ARs though use like a machinegun and report very little problems.
I think a modern Sudanese AR-10 has had similar if not better improvements to combat it's original problems. Insulated barrel, impingement tube and tougher more heat resistant receiver and moving parts probably already done since I'm fairly sure the Sudanese still use the ol AR-10.
Hey if you wanna improve the design do what H&K did. Replace the DI system with short stroke.
Going on other ideas...
Desert Eagle in 7.62 Tokarev. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:09 pm
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Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... That magazine just looks like a standard AR mag with some strange adapter housing it to make it fit into the rifle. Speaking of Eugene Stoner... I on the other hand am a fan of Eugene Stoner's original AR-10 design that had a versatile role as both a battle rifle and general purpose machine gun just with a simple quick and easy feed adapter to make it take belted 7.62 ammo. Beats the s**t out of an M60 anyday especially since you've got a forward assist to deal with the rifle bolt not fully closing when it's pasted over with s**t. Not to mention it's lighter and more squad portable than an M60 or FN MAG and if a major jam were to occur during a combat situation you could pick it up and move to cover behind the foward position very quickly to fix it or remove the belt fed adapter and use it in someone else's rifle to quickly get back to laying a sustained fire down. Unfortunately the Sudanese and some other country were the only ones that tooks the man's design seriously and worked out the kinks. nah, the morita rifles in the SST movie utilized ruger mini14/ AC556 magazines because those were the rifles they used to build them. they just surrounded the rifles in a molded fiberglass futuristic looking furniture kit and did the same for the mags and I disagree with a beltfed AR10 being better than an M60. the AR10 wasnt built to be a machinegun and lacks some important qualities so make it as successful as MG's like the M60 and FN MAG. 1. being that it probably still fires from a closed bolt, generating a lot of heat. 2. AR types in general have to be lubed extremely well or they will jam up, you cant run these weapons dry, especially if youre going to be shooting a lot, which is the purpose of a beltfed. 3. that damned gas tube is going to be cherry red and is going to break from all that abuse 4. the combination of .308, direct impingement, and lots of bullets means that thing is going to get filthy quick...very filthy. regarding the forward assist....theyre both totally different weapons. an M60 is open bolt, why would you even want to manually push it forward? the trigger does that. it's bolt only closes when it is in the middle of firing or is empty. and it SLAMS forward. Huh...Why do I keep forgetting about Ruger's failed attempt at an assault rifle? The M60 was possibly a gunners worst enemy it jammed at the worst of times when it was needed which is why the US military after so many years of putting up with it's s**t is phasing it out and going to the even older and more reliable FN MAG which I hardly see why since FN Herstal makes a Minimi in 7.62mm which is lighter than the older MAG. On the design of the AR-10 closed bolt, jamming and heat issues... Oddly enough a lot of civilian AR manufacturers put their ARs though use like a machinegun and report very little problems. I think a modern Sudanese AR-10 has had similar if not better improvements to combat it's original problems. Insulated barrel, impingement tube and tougher more heat resistant receiver and moving parts probably already done since I'm fairly sure the Sudanese still use the ol AR-10. Hey if you wanna improve the design do what H&K did. Replace the DI system with short stroke. Going on other ideas... Desert Eagle in 7.62 Tokarev.
Don't give HK credit for short-stroke. That was all Eugene Stoner's idea. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:58 pm
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Pripyat Dawn Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 Valkyrie Hatter Recon_Ninja_985 we need the morita infantry rifle and it's carbine version. except utilizing AR mags. I can dream.... That magazine just looks like a standard AR mag with some strange adapter housing it to make it fit into the rifle. Speaking of Eugene Stoner... I on the other hand am a fan of Eugene Stoner's original AR-10 design that had a versatile role as both a battle rifle and general purpose machine gun just with a simple quick and easy feed adapter to make it take belted 7.62 ammo. Beats the s**t out of an M60 anyday especially since you've got a forward assist to deal with the rifle bolt not fully closing when it's pasted over with s**t. Not to mention it's lighter and more squad portable than an M60 or FN MAG and if a major jam were to occur during a combat situation you could pick it up and move to cover behind the foward position very quickly to fix it or remove the belt fed adapter and use it in someone else's rifle to quickly get back to laying a sustained fire down. Unfortunately the Sudanese and some other country were the only ones that tooks the man's design seriously and worked out the kinks. nah, the morita rifles in the SST movie utilized ruger mini14/ AC556 magazines because those were the rifles they used to build them. they just surrounded the rifles in a molded fiberglass futuristic looking furniture kit and did the same for the mags and I disagree with a beltfed AR10 being better than an M60. the AR10 wasnt built to be a machinegun and lacks some important qualities so make it as successful as MG's like the M60 and FN MAG. 1. being that it probably still fires from a closed bolt, generating a lot of heat. 2. AR types in general have to be lubed extremely well or they will jam up, you cant run these weapons dry, especially if youre going to be shooting a lot, which is the purpose of a beltfed. 3. that damned gas tube is going to be cherry red and is going to break from all that abuse 4. the combination of .308, direct impingement, and lots of bullets means that thing is going to get filthy quick...very filthy. regarding the forward assist....theyre both totally different weapons. an M60 is open bolt, why would you even want to manually push it forward? the trigger does that. it's bolt only closes when it is in the middle of firing or is empty. and it SLAMS forward. Huh...Why do I keep forgetting about Ruger's failed attempt at an assault rifle? The M60 was possibly a gunners worst enemy it jammed at the worst of times when it was needed which is why the US military after so many years of putting up with it's s**t is phasing it out and going to the even older and more reliable FN MAG which I hardly see why since FN Herstal makes a Minimi in 7.62mm which is lighter than the older MAG. On the design of the AR-10 closed bolt, jamming and heat issues... Oddly enough a lot of civilian AR manufacturers put their ARs though use like a machinegun and report very little problems. I think a modern Sudanese AR-10 has had similar if not better improvements to combat it's original problems. Insulated barrel, impingement tube and tougher more heat resistant receiver and moving parts probably already done since I'm fairly sure the Sudanese still use the ol AR-10. Hey if you wanna improve the design do what H&K did. Replace the DI system with short stroke. Going on other ideas... Desert Eagle in 7.62 Tokarev. Because the SAW is a cantankerous ********. The Mk 46 is only used where light weight is more important than perfect reliability. Like by ******** Rangers, Airborne, and other SOF. Don't give HK credit for short-stroke. That was all Eugene Stoner's idea.
The design of short stroke I give credit to David Marshall Williams since it is in fact his patent.
Speaking of which you speak of absolute reliability when we use M4s and M16s that rely on a primitive gas system that shortens their overall lifespan compared to weapons that use short or long stroke gas systems. |
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