Beginning Witchcraft, what did you start with?

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

I started at a site called www.spellsandmagic.com which had a lot of high magic and complicated stuff, which I tried somewhat.

I looked over that site- it's not very good. It doesn't explin that there are different traditions, or really go into depth on the subjects and how they work- It really looks like it's more to stroke the authors ego.

It is good for some things, but it lacks explanation on the exercises and such. However, when I was first beginning, I didn't know whether it was good or not

Everything I read on the page was pretty bad. cat_sweatdrop
What parts do you think are good?  

[Ritual at Dusk]

Knowledge can be found in everything, you just weren't looking hard enough. There are a lot of pages to look at and on some of them I found some useful info, I don't recall which ones though  

[Lance Kibagari]

I'm inclined to agree that spellsandnotgivingthatsiteanytraffic.com is awful. The author's spelling and grammar is off, they use '2' for 'to' and '4' for 'for' in many cases, and a lot of the information is either fluffy or downright wrong.

Seriously, just look at the 'Wiccan Way of Life' section, where the author uses the tired old 'Wicca is an earth religion and has been around since before the Christian Church' argument.

Or even 'Wedding Superstitions'. Where did these superstitions come from? Why am I putting a horseshoe in my pocket?

I know nix about Witchcraft, but even I wouldn't be caught dead sending a newbie to this website.

Oh, and The Lesser Key of Solomon is a 'MUST HAVE' for beginners. That's a nice thing to have handy when you have no idea what you're doing! Oh, and Necronomicon Spellbook. How in the name of Hel is there a spellbook based off of a completely fictional work, and why is this site pandering it off as a good beginner book?

This PuZuZu person is a hack.  

[Erise Crewe]

Morgandria

It all takes time. Time, you've got. It's hard when everything's new and exciting and you're pulled a hundred ways and want it all NOW...but you really do have the rest of your life to untangle these skeins and figure out which ones you're weaving with.

As for where I started, it's here:
http://www.witchscauldron.net/30daysofpaganism/pagandayone.htm

It's long, but does explain how I began.

Thank you very much Morgandria. biggrin Is this your own website? If it is thank you for sharing something personal with us 3nodding and if not thanks for sharing the information about where you started learning

And while I agree with you on there being no rush, it's so easy to be mislead by everything. Lately I've felt discouraged and feel like I'd have to join a coven if I wanted a mentor sweatdrop But in all honesty wicca the religion is not for me I don't know if i'll ever change my mind about it but I think religion is not something that should be taken lightly. I am very hesitant to join unless I was absolutely sure, and right now I'm more sure that I don't want to be a part of it sweatdrop Also I feel like i'm sort of pressed to learn because of my real life situation... it's a little bit better now and I'm a very cautious person so I'm hesitant to do spells until I'm more knowledgeable. I've had a little bit of experience with spells... and I know about the consequences of bad spell casts sometimes I wonder if there was some purpose for me to learn that lesson at a young age. But for the most part I agree if you're really serious about it you do have the rest of your life to learn so there's no rush it'll come to you eventually.  

[Morgandria]

Erise Crewe

[

Thank you very much Morgandria. biggrin Is this your own website? If it is thank you for sharing something personal with us 3nodding and if not thanks for sharing the information about where you started learning.

It is my website. I've owned that domain name since 1998 - back when Drak.net was the only really pagan-friendly webhosting company on the internet, and more than a few websites were getting deleted for being pagan.  

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

Knowledge can be found in everything, you just weren't looking hard enough. There are a lot of pages to look at and on some of them I found some useful info, I don't recall which ones though

I think that maybe linking to some pages you thought were good would be more convincing than just telling me they're there. cat_3nodding  

[Calelith]

Ritual at Dusk

Knowledge can be found in everything, you just weren't looking hard enough. There are a lot of pages to look at and on some of them I found some useful info, I don't recall which ones though

Why not tell use which ones are good instead of leaving it ambiguous. Also, if these pages are there, why do you not recall which ones they are?

From what I saw there was nothing worth while...Nothing.

"There is nothing to fear when you have nothing to lose."

 

[Morgandria]

Ritual at Dusk

Knowledge can be found in everything, you just weren't looking hard enough. There are a lot of pages to look at and on some of them I found some useful info, I don't recall which ones though

You can indeed find such - but few people are going to dig through a mountain of horseshit hoping to find pearls.

It would be much more promising for your claim, though, if the good information you're saying was/is there was in some way even remotely memorable. Instead, your vagueness does the opposite - if you can't be bothered to remember it, why should we bother to look for it?

I'm sure there are people who think spellsandmagic.com is in some way useful. The site has been online for many years now, and is known to the pagan community online. In general, the site is held in poor esteem.

And I don't know about anyone else, but... seriously? -Seriously?- With offerings on 'Black Magic', 'Hallucinogens 4 Spiritual Purposes' (sic), pictures of the author's suspension experiences that are not at all related to anything else, some New-Age stuff, some ranting personal opinions/conspiracy theories, and a mix of different unrelated religious path information, without proper sources? How can you look at that website, at -ALL-, and take it seriously?

It's someone's personal website gone completely sideways. It can't decide if it's an info site, a site for their personal experiences, or a site for selling their services and trying to resell Amazon titles. It is properly a mess.

I can easily imagine a beginner, of any path, easily finding the site - it has a domain name chosen for such, obviously. It even has a beginner page...although it's a real loser.

1. Learn to Meditate
2. Choose your Path of Witchcraft
3. Duck and ******** Cover

Because obviously learning to meditate answers every problem, and is the source of all skill and knowledge and experience. Learn to meditate, jump into a witchcraft path feet first, and then.... learn to defend yourself against the people you piss off, attack, or otherwise rile up. I have to say that is indeed how it would likely end up if you follow Pazuzu's advice.

And a website that freely wanders between the New Age, Pagan and Christian religious paths, 'high magic', and witchcraft...that also contains a warning against beginners becoming dabblers in the Art is... tragically ironic.

I can't understand how any of this site is helpful - there's lots of 'how"-type articles, but very little 'why', and frankly the tone of most of these articles is not great. It seems to move between copypasta, New-Age babble, oooh-spooky Doom Cookie 'dark', and outright paranoid rambling.

A specific example of how this site doesn't make a good resource for a beginner:
The Astral Colour page makes it out that the only reason to choose a candle colour is to properly target my "Victim". What do candles have to do with the Astral? No idea or explanation. Nothing on the Astral proper on the page. People who don't know any better may now assume candle magic is properly linked with the Astral Plane, and that it is for attacking people only.

In the end the site is a pile of confusing, ill-sorted materials. I think its' use is primarily as a cautionary tale, a good example of websites to avoid. Anyone who educates themselves from the website will find themselves, eventually, reeducating themselves from better sources - or at least I hope so - although personally I feel it's more useful to avoid the site entirely, and start with better sources in the first place.  

[oOGarrettOo]

Morgandria

It even has a beginner page...although it's a real loser.

1. Learn to Meditate
2. Choose your Path of Witchcraft
3. Duck and ******** Cover

Because obviously learning to meditate answers every problem, and is the source of all skill and knowledge and experience. Learn to meditate, jump into a witchcraft path feet first, and then.... learn to defend yourself against the people you piss off, attack, or otherwise rile up. I have to say that is indeed how it would likely end up if you follow Pazuzu's advice.

Things like this are why I love you xd You made my afternoon.  

[Ritual at Dusk]

Morgandria

Ritual at Dusk

Knowledge can be found in everything, you just weren't looking hard enough. There are a lot of pages to look at and on some of them I found some useful info, I don't recall which ones though

You can indeed find such - but few people are going to dig through a mountain of horseshit hoping to find pearls.

It would be much more promising for your claim, though, if the good information you're saying was/is there was in some way even remotely memorable. Instead, your vagueness does the opposite - if you can't be bothered to remember it, why should we bother to look for it?

I'm sure there are people who think spellsandmagic.com is in some way useful. The site has been online for many years now, and is known to the pagan community online. In general, the site is held in poor esteem.

And I don't know about anyone else, but... seriously? -Seriously?- With offerings on 'Black Magic', 'Hallucinogens 4 Spiritual Purposes' (sic), pictures of the author's suspension experiences that are not at all related to anything else, some New-Age stuff, some ranting personal opinions/conspiracy theories, and a mix of different unrelated religious path information, without proper sources? How can you look at that website, at -ALL-, and take it seriously?

It's someone's personal website gone completely sideways. It can't decide if it's an info site, a site for their personal experiences, or a site for selling their services and trying to resell Amazon titles. It is properly a mess.

I can easily imagine a beginner, of any path, easily finding the site - it has a domain name chosen for such, obviously. It even has a beginner page...although it's a real loser.

1. Learn to Meditate
2. Choose your Path of Witchcraft
3. Duck and ******** Cover

Because obviously learning to meditate answers every problem, and is the source of all skill and knowledge and experience. Learn to meditate, jump into a witchcraft path feet first, and then.... learn to defend yourself against the people you piss off, attack, or otherwise rile up. I have to say that is indeed how it would likely end up if you follow Pazuzu's advice.

And a website that freely wanders between the New Age, Pagan and Christian religious paths, 'high magic', and witchcraft...that also contains a warning against beginners becoming dabblers in the Art is... tragically ironic.

I can't understand how any of this site is helpful - there's lots of 'how"-type articles, but very little 'why', and frankly the tone of most of these articles is not great. It seems to move between copypasta, New-Age babble, oooh-spooky Doom Cookie 'dark', and outright paranoid rambling.

A specific example of how this site doesn't make a good resource for a beginner:
The Astral Colour page makes it out that the only reason to choose a candle colour is to properly target my "Victim". What do candles have to do with the Astral? No idea or explanation. Nothing on the Astral proper on the page. People who don't know any better may now assume candle magic is properly linked with the Astral Plane, and that it is for attacking people only.

In the end the site is a pile of confusing, ill-sorted materials. I think its' use is primarily as a cautionary tale, a good example of websites to avoid. Anyone who educates themselves from the website will find themselves, eventually, reeducating themselves from better sources - or at least I hope so - although personally I feel it's more useful to avoid the site entirely, and start with better sources in the first place.

I understand that a lot of it is useless and pathetic rantings and such, I was just saying that there was some good info on there and the reason I don't recall the pages were because I got the info years ago. And I don't expect you to go looking through it, I got that you don't like the damn site, congratulations, neither do I, I just recognized that a few things helped me on there, like at least leading me in a direction to find better info and giving me topics to research and such and more. The thing I hate about these guilds is how you say one little thing that somebody doesn't believe in and everybody jumps on you like the world is going to end if their opinion isn't listed. People in the paganism guilds seem to just be really uptight and unpleasant, like they have no room for anything but the absolute most correct thing, which is funny considering how much of paganism follows little rule.  

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

Ritual at Dusk

I understand that a lot of it is useless and pathetic rantings and such, I was just saying that there was some good info on there and the reason I don't recall the pages were because I got the info years ago. And I don't expect you to go looking through it, I got that you don't like the damn site, congratulations, neither do I, I just recognized that a few things helped me on there, like at least leading me in a direction to find better info and giving me topics to research and such and more. The thing I hate about these guilds is how you say one little thing that somebody doesn't believe in and everybody jumps on you like the world is going to end if their opinion isn't listed. People in the paganism guilds seem to just be really uptight and unpleasant, like they have no room for anything but the absolute most correct thing, which is funny considering how much of paganism follows little rule.

If you don't like the site then why did you suggest it?

And the point that they're trying to get at is, or at least what I think, is a beginner might not be able to tell that a lot of what's posted on that site is bad. Or if they can they won't waste their time trying to find what is actually good.

I actually find these guilds really helpful. And I find the discussions like this helpful. And it depends on the path on if there are little rules or not.  

[Ritual at Dusk]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

Ritual at Dusk

I understand that a lot of it is useless and pathetic rantings and such, I was just saying that there was some good info on there and the reason I don't recall the pages were because I got the info years ago. And I don't expect you to go looking through it, I got that you don't like the damn site, congratulations, neither do I, I just recognized that a few things helped me on there, like at least leading me in a direction to find better info and giving me topics to research and such and more. The thing I hate about these guilds is how you say one little thing that somebody doesn't believe in and everybody jumps on you like the world is going to end if their opinion isn't listed. People in the paganism guilds seem to just be really uptight and unpleasant, like they have no room for anything but the absolute most correct thing, which is funny considering how much of paganism follows little rule.

If you don't like the site then why did you suggest it?

And the point that they're trying to get at is, or at least what I think, is a beginner might not be able to tell that a lot of what's posted on that site is bad. Or if they can they won't waste their time trying to find what is actually good.

I actually find these guilds really helpful. And I find the discussions like this helpful. And it depends on the path on if there are little rules or not.

I didn't suggest it! I even specifically said "I wouldn't suggest doing what I did."  

[Morgandria]

Ritual at Dusk

The thing I hate about these guilds is how you say one little thing that somebody doesn't believe in and everybody jumps on you like the world is going to end if their opinion isn't listed. People in the paganism guilds seem to just be really uptight and unpleasant, like they have no room for anything but the absolute most correct thing, which is funny considering how much of paganism follows little rule.

What you've said here, in this post, is not what your previous posts have said. Your previous posts have made it look as if you are defending the website's reputation by insisting there was something useful there, if we'd only look for it.

If you'd said "Been there in the past, site's frightful but it led me on further to better and more accurate sources" in the first place, I promise you'd have gotten a much different response, and not the "uptight and unpleasant" response from people trying to aid newbies in steering clear of the sort of s**t you find online so they don't waste their time.

For example: if you'd not linked the site, but instead mentioned the name, people would have been less likely to assume you were advocating the site. Putting up a link is more than a strong implication that you think a site should be visited, for whatever reasons you list.

Also, insisting we just weren't looking hard enough for knowledge is also a strong advocation that you believe knowledge could be found there. It would be very irresponsible of me, as far as I'm concerned, to let that stand on a thread for beginners, without also properly outlining my concerns about the site. I can't make up people's minds for them. But I can give them my opinion. Given that beginners often complain that no-one tries to help them and they get left flailing around on their own without direction...I'm trying.

Everyone's got an opinion. Mine's loud, sometimes. Don't like it? Don't listen...or make your own heard in the same manner as mine. Logically. Point by point. Hopefully backed up with some factual information. I'm quite cheerful to accept factual information that counters mine. I'm more than happy to see the other side of things. But I'm not going to be quiet, and I'm not going to make someone else's arguments for them.

As I said - don't like the responses your posts get? Change the way you post...or don't post. We are accountable for our words here. Also, criticism does not mean you are being attacked personally. If you find yourself getting defensive over what's being said, it's worth examining why.  

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

Ritual at Dusk

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

Ritual at Dusk

I understand that a lot of it is useless and pathetic rantings and such, I was just saying that there was some good info on there and the reason I don't recall the pages were because I got the info years ago. And I don't expect you to go looking through it, I got that you don't like the damn site, congratulations, neither do I, I just recognized that a few things helped me on there, like at least leading me in a direction to find better info and giving me topics to research and such and more. The thing I hate about these guilds is how you say one little thing that somebody doesn't believe in and everybody jumps on you like the world is going to end if their opinion isn't listed. People in the paganism guilds seem to just be really uptight and unpleasant, like they have no room for anything but the absolute most correct thing, which is funny considering how much of paganism follows little rule.

If you don't like the site then why did you suggest it?

And the point that they're trying to get at is, or at least what I think, is a beginner might not be able to tell that a lot of what's posted on that site is bad. Or if they can they won't waste their time trying to find what is actually good.

I actually find these guilds really helpful. And I find the discussions like this helpful. And it depends on the path on if there are little rules or not.

I didn't suggest it! I even specifically said "I wouldn't suggest doing what I did."

Then maybe next time not saying what site you started at? Because it seems like you're still saying go ahead and go here for info.  

[Morgandria]

Ritual at Dusk

I didn't suggest it! I even specifically said "I wouldn't suggest doing what I did."

True enough. Problem is you made that statement more than halfway down the paragraph, and you still linked to the site. If I don't want people to visit a website, I generally don't link to it. Mention its' name, and people know to avoid it if they find it. Give them a link, and of course they're going to visit it.

Even if you didn't intend to advocate it, the link and your further statements made it look as if you did.