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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:56 am
I personally avoid using the term, for it often becomes just another way to bash/flame someone else's way of doing things. Sometimes labels such as these can get in the way of understanding the other person, leading to conflicts between people that may not have otherwise happened. Since I don't use the term, I don't exactly have a personal definition for it, but those provided by others are some common ones that I've heard around.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:25 pm
Starlock I personally avoid using the term, for it often becomes just another way to bash/flame someone else's way of doing things. Sometimes labels such as these can get in the way of understanding the other person, leading to conflicts between people that may not have otherwise happened. Since I don't use the term, I don't exactly have a personal definition for it, but those provided by others are some common ones that I've heard around. Its not the label that gets in the way of understanding the other person. Its the misuse of the label that causes that issue. If used accurately, a label would help to understand the person. Thats all a label is, a descriptive term. When you claim a specific religious orientation, you are describing yourself as an adherent to SPECIFIC beliefs and an established method of worship to specific deity (or to following an established philosophy). And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. As I've stated billions of times, By all means worship who and how you want, Just dont claim to be something your not in the process. Otherwise your decieving not only others, but yourself as well.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:12 pm
Shimegamis_Rage Starlock I personally avoid using the term, for it often becomes just another way to bash/flame someone else's way of doing things. Sometimes labels such as these can get in the way of understanding the other person, leading to conflicts between people that may not have otherwise happened. Since I don't use the term, I don't exactly have a personal definition for it, but those provided by others are some common ones that I've heard around. Its not the label that gets in the way of understanding the other person. Its the misuse of the label that causes that issue. If used accurately, a label would help to understand the person. Thats all a label is, a descriptive term. When you claim a specific religious orientation, you are describing yourself as an adherent to SPECIFIC beliefs and an established method of worship to specific deity (or to following an established philosophy). And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. As I've stated billions of times, By all means worship who and how you want, Just dont claim to be something your not in the process. Otherwise your decieving not only others, but yourself as well. Yay i like you mrgreen that was the best post i have read in a while apart from Eric Wolfborn In all seriousness, I doubt it would be possible. The amount of energy required to do such a thing would be mindboggling, as it would be necissary to control whatever otherworldy whatsit you conjured into your breakfast pastry. but that is not realted to this.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:24 am
Shimegamis_Rage And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. This, of course, is based on the assumption that you don't support deviation from an orthodox or traditional practice of a religion. Some people are not quite as traditional and orthodox, and such people tend to shift and redefine labels. So it is not neccesarily willful disrespect in all cases, it's a matter of differences in philosophical approach.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:10 pm
Starlock Shimegamis_Rage And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. This, of course, is based on the assumption that you don't support deviation from an orthodox or traditional practice of a religion. Some people are not quite as traditional and orthodox, and such people tend to shift and redefine labels. So it is not neccesarily willful disrespect in all cases, it's a matter of differences in philosophical approach. If you misrepresent a religion, its disrespect. If you dont follow a religion, but instead only a small portion of it, and yet claim the title of its clergy. Its misrepresentation. If you claim to be something your not. Its deciet. If you dont actually follow the religion in question. Your something else. Ever notice how deviating from a set religion under Christianity causes a new sect? They get it, why the hell cant Pagans? If you dont follow something, and it has things in common, that doesnt mean its the same thing. ex: If your fourteen and claiming to be Wiccan, and outright ignore corrections or the study sources your recommended... Your a fluff. If your claiming to follow an ancient irish tradition of Wicca, your a fluff. If you claim to be a Native American/celtic/norse Shaman, and ignore the fact that, well... They dont have shamans nor use that term for the shamanic like practices of those cultures.... Your a plastic shaman... a fluff.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:46 pm
Shimegamis_Rage Starlock Shimegamis_Rage And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. This, of course, is based on the assumption that you don't support deviation from an orthodox or traditional practice of a religion. Some people are not quite as traditional and orthodox, and such people tend to shift and redefine labels. So it is not neccesarily willful disrespect in all cases, it's a matter of differences in philosophical approach. If you misrepresent a religion, its disrespect. If you dont follow a religion, but instead only a small portion of it, and yet claim the title of its clergy. Its misrepresentation. If you claim to be something your not. Its deciet. If you dont actually follow the religion in question. Your something else. Ever notice how deviating from a set religion under Christianity causes a new sect? They get it, why the hell cant Pagans? If you dont follow something, and it has things in common, that doesnt mean its the same thing. ex: If your fourteen and claiming to be Wiccan, and outright ignore corrections or the study sources your recommended... Your a fluff. If your claiming to follow an ancient irish tradition of Wicca, your a fluff. If you claim to be a Native American/celtic/norse Shaman, and ignore the fact that, well... They dont have shamans nor use that term for the shamanic like practices of those cultures.... Your a plastic shaman... a fluff.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:05 am
MysticalBlueRse I think some Native American tribes do call their healers/seers shamens...I can't be a 100% sure Nope. Its a mongolian-Tungus word. The tribes have their own languages and terminology for their healers/seers and the like. A few tribes have actually spoken out against "plastic Shamans"... I think the Navajo nation even threatened legal action on frauds using their tradition and culture for gain.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:35 am
You're still assuming, though that there's a misrepresentation of the religion rather than simply a progression of the religion into a new phase of development. There are certainly cases of misrepresentation without a doubt. I'm merely pointing out that misrepresentation is not neccesarily the intention, nor any sort of disrespect.
Then again, one cannot help it if one's actions are interpreted in a way other than they were intended to be. confused
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:53 pm
Shimegamis_Rage Starlock Shimegamis_Rage And its not their way of doing things that attacked, its their willful disrespect for the religion they claim to follow and their willful promotion of inaccurate information regarding that religion as well as their outright refusal to learn. Or outright fraud. This, of course, is based on the assumption that you don't support deviation from an orthodox or traditional practice of a religion. Some people are not quite as traditional and orthodox, and such people tend to shift and redefine labels. So it is not neccesarily willful disrespect in all cases, it's a matter of differences in philosophical approach. If you misrepresent a religion, its disrespect. If you dont follow a religion, but instead only a small portion of it, and yet claim the title of its clergy. Its misrepresentation. If you claim to be something your not. Its deciet. If you dont actually follow the religion in question. Your something else. Ever notice how deviating from a set religion under Christianity causes a new sect? They get it, why the hell cant Pagans? If you dont follow something, and it has things in common, that doesnt mean its the same thing. ex: If your fourteen and claiming to be Wiccan, and outright ignore corrections or the study sources your recommended... Your a fluff. If your claiming to follow an ancient irish tradition of Wicca, your a fluff. If you claim to be a Native American/celtic/norse Shaman, and ignore the fact that, well... They dont have shamans nor use that term for the shamanic like practices of those cultures.... Your a plastic shaman... a fluff. But also there are many different branches of wicca. A religion will wither and die if it dosen't change. Granted Its not suppose to change views a ton, at times alterations between different groups is a fact of life. Some groups use different terms for casting circles, invoking elements, ect. ect. People will always make a religion thier own. I do however believe that the original principles of the religion should for the most part stay the same, but we can't expect a religion to be 100% the same to everyone. as everyone has an interpritation to the bible, other people will have interpritations behind the meaning of certain documents and sayings within a religion.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:46 am
Nihilistic Seraph http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fluffy+bunny One and two work. Three is JM's suggestion, and I'm not going to think about four. Yes, indeed. Four is not something I would like to think about. I investigated for curiosity's sake and now I wish I could scour my eyes with bleach.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:49 am
Shimegamis_Rage MysticalBlueRse I think some Native American tribes do call their healers/seers shamens...I can't be a 100% sure Nope. Its a mongolian-Tungus word. The tribes have their own languages and terminology for their healers/seers and the like. A few tribes have actually spoken out against "plastic Shamans"... I think the Navajo nation even threatened legal action on frauds using their tradition and culture for gain. All the better. I've heard that reasons like this were considered in keeping around the "anti-witchcraft" laws in England around so long. Luckily they were changed to include only the frauds (I did my term paper in High School on the Burning Times and this law got mentioned).
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:48 am
Christo Minaverus But also there are many different branches of wicca. A religion will wither and die if it dosen't change. Granted Its not suppose to change views a ton, at times alterations between different groups is a fact of life. Some groups use different terms for casting circles, invoking elements, ect. ect. People will always make a religion thier own. I do however believe that the original principles of the religion should for the most part stay the same, but we can't expect a religion to be 100% the same to everyone. as everyone has an interpritation to the bible, other people will have interpritations behind the meaning of certain documents and sayings within a religion. Which is why it is changing WITHIN the religion by the creation of new LINEAGED traditions. Most of the religion is kept in tact but there are small differences making the traditions different. Ex: Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Minoan Triad, Alegard, ect. Ecclectic, however, is not a Wiccan Tradition and keeps VERY little of the religion in tact.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:18 pm
I don't know... I always thought "Ecclectic Wicca" was just another way of saying "I'm agnostic, but I'm still a pagan".
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:24 pm
Shimegamis_Rage Christo Minaverus But also there are many different branches of wicca. A religion will wither and die if it dosen't change. Granted Its not suppose to change views a ton, at times alterations between different groups is a fact of life. Some groups use different terms for casting circles, invoking elements, ect. ect. People will always make a religion thier own. I do however believe that the original principles of the religion should for the most part stay the same, but we can't expect a religion to be 100% the same to everyone. as everyone has an interpritation to the bible, other people will have interpritations behind the meaning of certain documents and sayings within a religion. Which is why it is changing WITHIN the religion by the creation of new LINEAGED traditions. Most of the religion is kept in tact but there are small differences making the traditions different. Ex: Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Minoan Triad, Alegard, ect. Ecclectic, however, is not a Wiccan Tradition and keeps VERY little of the religion in tact. I have known groups that were Ecclectic and still hold tru to all of The guidelines and structure of wicca but have a different aspect with it. The funny think about wicca is that all of these people keep choking down peoples throats that They don't know whats wiccan and this and this is when In fact no one but people in a traditional coven know and rarely if ever is anything from these groups leaked out. I am just stating that just because someone isn't part of one of these groups dosen't mean thier not wiccan.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:34 pm
Christo Minaverus Shimegamis_Rage Christo Minaverus But also there are many different branches of wicca. A religion will wither and die if it dosen't change. Granted Its not suppose to change views a ton, at times alterations between different groups is a fact of life. Some groups use different terms for casting circles, invoking elements, ect. ect. People will always make a religion thier own. I do however believe that the original principles of the religion should for the most part stay the same, but we can't expect a religion to be 100% the same to everyone. as everyone has an interpritation to the bible, other people will have interpritations behind the meaning of certain documents and sayings within a religion. Which is why it is changing WITHIN the religion by the creation of new LINEAGED traditions. Most of the religion is kept in tact but there are small differences making the traditions different. Ex: Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Minoan Triad, Alegard, ect. Ecclectic, however, is not a Wiccan Tradition and keeps VERY little of the religion in tact. I have known groups that were Ecclectic and still hold tru to all of The guidelines and structure of wicca but have a different aspect with it. The funny think about wicca is that all of these people keep choking down peoples throats that They don't know whats wiccan and this and this is when In fact no one but people in a traditional coven know and ra rely if ever is anything from these groups leaked out. I am just stating that just because someone isn't part of one of these groups dosen't mean thier not wiccan. Actually, that's exactly what it means. Wicca is an orthopraxic, mystery religion. You have to be inducted. That's like saying I'm an ecclectic Christian because I think some of the teachings are cool, but I don't think it was taught by jesus. I think it was taught by a cyclops from the moon, and that we were created in a cataclysmic collision of reeses peanut butter cups and milk. One side effect was the creation of the universe. The other was the creation of reeses cereal. If you don't follow the teachings, you don't follow the religion.
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